G-Minor 70

[ParadigmShifter]

If you aren't after a super early win (I'm happy with any win), spread Christianity to a NSR AI capital and then spread the AP religion.

 

[babaBrian]

Thank you all for the most enjoyable, educational, and effective (and at least three other words that start with 'E') thread I've yet to read! Thanks to you guys, I now have my first two deity wins. My first one was 1360AD with Qin, putting me in last place. But it's my first minor gauntlet and second religious victory ever, so I'm still holding my head high.

Then, I tried again with Mansa Musa, and got a barely-BC win... still last!
I thought surely someone would still be in the ADs.

Oh well, I'll give it a few more goes. I haven't used MapFinder yet, so I'll look into that for the next gauntlets.

 

[WastinTime]

You might be right, but with my strategy I have never even got close to a pre-1500BC finish with gems. Gold, yes.

I think that to do it with gems you'd have to have a seriously great start rather than just the bare minimum 1 good food, 2 gold plus a reasonable quantity of forest.

I still say gems don't cut it

Actually gems can cut it, and surprisingly, it does not need a seriously great start. In fact, just the opposite. You can do it with NO food and then you get to use the superior Bismarck instead of Qin.

Simply grow your city to only size 2 using 2 river/gems. Then make more workers at size 2. You will improve and start working the gems much sooner than when you have to farm corn first. After just those 2 mines, you can start chopping. Be sure to have plenty of forests.

I'm out of town, so I haven't had a run in a while. What's the current top finish? anyone 1700 yet?

 

[Robert Smith]

What's the current top finish? anyone 1700 yet?

This is a competition of 2:nd place, we all know how is going to take the #1 spot

 

[unclethrill]

Well I improved by 3 turns and moved from 8th to 9th. Guess it's time to try again!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'm out of town, so I haven't had a run in a while. What's the current top finish? anyone 1700 yet?

Misuto recently reported a game with a barely lost RL DV election that would have resulted in a 1750 BC or earlier Win (if I understood correctly). But Zara Yaqob converted to TAP Religion and Misuto stalled the RL DV ballot till 1625 BC (1650 BC Win), to increase his Support before converting the final Civ, but lost by one vote.

So, your pre-1600 BC Game must not also be 1700 or pre-1700 Game? Or are you holding back?

WastinTime has provided many great tips throughout this thread. You are well advised to read and apply them to your Gm-70 games.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Mesix]

I had my most successful attempt last night.

I had two grassland/river gems and corn in my capital. I found a nearby site with 2 gold. After growing my initial city to size 2 to work the gems, I chopped a settler and went for my 2 city strategy. The 2nd city grew to size 3 and worked both gold mines. I chopped the Oracle in city number 2 while the capital built more workers. After finishing the Oracle in the 2nd city, it switched to missionaries while an army of 5 workers chopped TAP in the capital. I finished TAP on about turn 83!!!

What went wrong? Four (yes FOUR) missionaries failed to spread TAP religion to Hatty. I had finished teching Alphabet before finishing TAP and gave away multiple techs to every AI. Zara was +7 and everyone else was +8 or better. 14 turns went by and missionary number five arrived in Hatty's territory a couple of turns late. On turn 101, TAP reelected me the head, but the Diplo VC didn't appear until after the 2nd election.

 

[Dracandross]

Ungh missed that heres such a nice gminor now got three days left. At least got submission with 20bc or so. Stupid gandhi spread too much suddenly and didnt get him to my side in time.

Kinda hard to get oracle on sm btw, wonder if bigger area would help. (at least on pangaea)

Boreal was way easier for 400bc but of course that is still bad. At least got mark for gmin now

-D

 

[SirDrake]

Bismarck and Qin Shi Huang are the best choices. Bismarck has synergy with Boreal Maps (starting Technology Hunting and plentiful Deer). Qin Shi Huang has synergy with single continent or flat maps with Temperate Climate (Pangaea seems best). His Agriculture starting Technology was meant to be used on irrigated Corn.

Thanks for the tips! I played a few with Qinshy and got down to 1225 BC.

Ironically, I didn't build a farm in that game, because I had no grain (grassland gems and an oasis tile gave me enough food for decent growth). It was a litany of utter waste: I hut-popped two Scouts who then popped two technologies, Pottery and the Wheel, neither of which I used. My city radius included two gems and one gold, but I almost never worked the second gem mine because I was out-teching my production rate (I worked a pig-hill-mine instead, same food but 3 hammers).

Ramesses II is your best Opponent. For that reason alone he is not a good Leader to Play as.

The bugger twice converted to Christianity and ruined a game for me. But I learned to spread to him last, and that problem has gone away.


Cheers,
Jason

 

[WastinTime]

This is a competition of 2:nd place, we all know how is going to take the #1 spot

Not true. I've been on vacation all week, haven't played and probably won't get to play. I'm currently in 2nd place. Someone should be able to pop free BW, or myst, or masonry and get 1700. I did not do either.

 

[Robert_Marshall]

Well, I got mine in and learned something about RL Dip Victories. I was under the mistaken impression that I still had to have TAP Religion as my state religion AFTER I built TAP. Once I figured out to go to nsr, I got the win I am not competitive but did get my first RL and Deity win at 420 BC. I know I am near the bottom, but how do you tell that? Is there a list somewhere before the gauntlet ends or are you just figuring it out from the posts in the forum?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Well, I got mine in and learned something about RL Dip Victories. I was under the mistaken impression that I still had to have TAP Religion as my state religion AFTER I built TAP. Once I figured out to go to nsr, I got the win I am not competitive but did get my first RL and Deity win at 420 BC. I know I am near the bottom, but how do you tell that? Is there a list somewhere before the gauntlet ends or are you just figuring it out from the posts in the forum?

While the Gauntlet is running, the following page will show just your rank in the standings (and no one else's):

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=minor&gauntlet=164&submit=Go

After the Gauntlet concludes with the HOF update, everyone's rank will show on the above Gauntlet results page. For Major Gauntlets this occurs only with the second HOF update, since they last for two update periods. The Minor Gauntlets, like "G-Minor 70", last a single HOF update period.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[ianw1610]

I've finished in 2nd place in each of the last 2 Religious victory Gauntlets, so aiming for "third time lucky" here...

I think the basic strategy will be reasonably consistent amongst all the top players. My own slight variant is to research Mysticism before Bronze Working at the very start, in order that the city growth phase can be accomplished while building Stonehenge... obviously I have no intention of completing the Wonder... I'm simply aiming to maximise the compensation paid into my treasury when someone else does complete it, in order that I can fund the Unit Costs of my late game Workers and Missionaries...

The "Holy Grail" in this gauntlet is to pop Bronze Working from a Goody Hut. I've done that once so far, and was fully set for a 1650BC win - the Diplo victory vote occurred in 1675BC, and I was +8 to +10 with everyone, as I had long-since completed Alphabet and gifted lots of techs... however, the AP religion starting spreading to the large cities of one of my rivals (it was auto-spreading... I sent him no missionaries) and unfortunately he converted a few turns before the final vote, and used his ~40 votes to veto my win.

Best victory date so far was from a non-food start. I had just one size-2 city - one riverside grassland Gems and one plains hill Gold. Lots and lots of forests, and no close cultural boundaries, so chopped everything in sight. Finish date was 1400BC, which places 7th out of 21 at present...

 

[mc-red]

Thanks for all the tips in this thread.

Managed to win on turn 122 with Bismark going the Boreal route with the Hatty, Ramses,
roosy, and Zara as the opponent combo.
It was my third attempt.
First time forgot to get Monotheism before building oracle
second time both Roosevelt and Hatty became Christian
Third time missed vote on T108 because failed spread to Zara.
Hatty was OR and pleased so spread to an extra couple of her cities to avoid Roosevelt from causing problems as I was not confident he would vote for me.
As expected Roosevelt abstained despite visible +6 but I got 31 votes needing only 27.
I had converted one of hatty's cities the turn before the vote with pop 4.
That may well have been the decider

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The "Holy Grail" in this gauntlet is to pop Bronze Working from a Goody Hut. I've done that once so far, and was fully set for a 1650BC win - the Diplo victory vote occurred in 1675BC, and I was +8 to +10 with everyone, as I had long-since completed Alphabet and gifted lots of techs... however, the AP religion starting spreading to the large cities of one of my rivals (it was auto-spreading... I sent him no missionaries) and unfortunately he converted a few turns before the final vote, and used his ~40 votes to veto my win.

How did you get +8 to +10 with everyone? Did you mean +8 to +10 Visible Diplomacy or Visible+Hidden Diplomacy? It's easy to get Hatshepsut and Ramesses II to +8 through +10 via sharing their Favorite Civic, Organized Religion. It seems that you must have had Open Borders for 50 turns to get +2 Diplomacy with at least the other two Civs. Did everyone share the same true Religion (Buddhism or Hinduism)? That would get one a big Diplomatic bonus with everyone, but that is an extremely rare occurrence. Shared War would be impossible, since the Civ one is at War with is unlikely to have anywhere near +8 Diplomacy with one. Maybe shared resources helped, but a single City Empire is unlikely to have many Resources to Share, especially due to the low priority of Worker Technologies with the obvious exception of Mining (Gems & Gold) and Bronze Working (Chopping). The Shared Technology bonus is possible, but hard to get since so many Technologies must be traded before the bonus takes effect.

Did I forget to mention any primary means of achieving a diplomatic bonus with an AI Civ?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Misotu]

@Sun Tzu Wu: I'm intrigued too Also, I have been trading resources quite early where possible - I often need an extra health resource when the forests go. But I didn't think you could get any relations boost from this inside the time frame until I saw your post - I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened in any of my games. Do you know roughly how long it takes to get the boost from resource trading?

I've given up on this one now - just deleted my remaining map finder saves. Had three games that looked good for 17xx or 16xxBC win, but every time something went wrong, usually someone converting to the AP religion, or a variant of that. Lost by 1 vote on the best one, which was a bit of a disappointment So 1500BC was the best I could manage in the end, which puts me in 4th place currently.

 

[Robert_Marshall]

My own slight variant is to research Mysticism before Bronze Working at the very start, in order that the city growth phase can be accomplished while building Stonehenge

The "Holy Grail" in this gauntlet is to pop Bronze Working from a Goody Hut.

I have been using the Stonehenge strategy too for cash. I did pop BW, but made a lot of mistakes in that game including not switching to nsr.

 

[Robert_Marshall]

While the Gauntlet is running, the following page will show just your rank in the standings (and no one else's):

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=minor&gauntlet=164&submit=Go

When I click on the link I get a blank table. Is my game supposed to show up in the table somewhere? Hmm...perhaps I did something wrong in the setup for the game. I best check that.

edit...oops! I had played at Marathon by mistake. At least I got some experience to have a better go at it.

 

[ianw1610]

How did you get +8 to +10 with everyone? Did you mean +8 to +10 Visible Diplomacy or Visible+Hidden Diplomacy?

Did I forget to mention any primary means of achieving a diplomatic bonus with an AI Civ?

For Hatty & Ramesses it was as you said. For Zara & Gandhi the total of +8 includes the hidden +2 (as well as trading +4, open borders +1 and years of peace +1).

Other than shared "common" religion and a shared war, the other semi-frequent +1 that can be obtained is "you gave us help", if you give them a requested tech.

I think the resource sharing +1 comes up after around 40 or 50 turns. I had it in the recent Sitting Bull Religious Gauntlet, but not yet in this one.

Gandhi is a tough, tough opponent. In three separate games he has founded Buddhism AND Hinduism AND Judaism and not spread any of them! In three other games he has completed the Oracle in 2600BC !!!

 

[Dracandross]

Ungh now 975bc wonder if I can pull in 4th run before time runs out...

Definitely now I need to pop something or get better start loc... Stupid minors have too short play time on deity even though easy...

-D