G-Minor 70

[Mesix]

I just mismanaged a 1475 (turn 101) victory. I had the victory in the bag, I just miscounted the turns. I thought it was going to be a turn 103 vote and it turned out to be a turn 100 vote. I revolted to No State one turn before and planned to gift techs to Ramses II FTW. He was +6 under no State and just needed a slight nudge. I had Hatty and Cyrus up to +11 and +10 under same religion and both at +8 under No State. If I had just waited one turn and revotlted to Christianity, I would have won without Ramses II votes.

 

[Robert_Marshall]

WooHoo! A new dead last. Mine is on the board at 45BC

 

[Robert_Marshall]

I just mismanaged a 1475 (turn 101) victory.

WAY cool. Does that put you in the lead...maybe you were already in the lead.

 

[Mesix]

Mismanaged means that I didn't get it due to my own stupidity.

 

[Mesix]

My 1150 BC is good for 11th place. I shaved 200 years off and moved up 2 spots on the chart.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Believe me, I *know* where you are coming from. I had one more try at this yesterday. Wonderful game. It was perfect. I was ready to go by *1750BC* - AP done, missionaries done, AP religion spread to all except one civ, a missionary poised in that civ and one spare. Hattie +9, Ramesses +8.

BUT

TAP religion had auto-spread to Zara and he had converted, with 8 votes. I held off spreading to Ramesses for as long as I could, trying to get another missionary into Hattie. Gifted one to her but I think it must have failed. Had to call the election in 1625BC or miss the DV option, didn't think I could hold off any longer but calculated I would just scrape a win.

Then Hattie whipped something in her capital - suddenly she had only 2 votes instead of 5. I lost by one vote.

I don't think I'll get such a great start and game again ... that's probably it for me now.

I also had a good game going, except two AI Civs still didn't have any Religion yet. I held back both Missionaries on the 14th turn after the completion of TAP. In the beginning of the next turn, I was given the option to stop trading with either of those two AI Civs or None. I selected None, but no RL DV Ballot came up when I used the Missionaries to convert their target Cities on the 18th turn after the completion of TAP.

Perhaps the RL DV is extended by up to 4 turns only when a single AI Civ has yet to be converted. I was also quite sure I missed my chance when the Stop trading option came up on the 14 turn cycle (14th turn). I assume that when one gets the delayed RL DV option on 15th, 16th, 17th or 18th turn, no option would have been presented on the prior 14th turn (counted from the turn TAP was completed on; the turn before the Resident Election Ballot appears = turn 1).

How to delay the RL DV Ballot by up to 4 turns? Misotu, can you answer this?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Robert_Marshall]

Mismanaged means that I didn't get it due to my own stupidity.

I thought you mismanaged it, but won anyway.

 

[ianw1610]

I had another series of attempts - this time with Bismarck, rather than Qin. I didn't, however, manage to pop any Technologies of note from goody huts.

I finally got an optimal map on MapFinder... completed the AP on turn 73, and got the Diplo Victory vote screen in 1800BC... however I was still 3 turns away from Alphabet at that point so nobody voted for me. Obviously I should have delayed completion of the AP by 4 of 5 turns... I'd have won somewhere in the 1700BC-1650BC range for sure, but hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!

My best game was a 1500BC finish (5th place at the moment). At the end, I ran out of forests, so had to switch to Slavery and whip the missionaries. Finished the game with just 1 x Size-1 city, and scored just 18,000 points!!! In that game, Zara had No State Religion, but I needed his vote to win, as at least one other leader was clearly not going to vote for me. I fortified a missionary in one of Zara's cities ~5 turns before the Diplo vote, but still no other religion spread to him. So... one turn before the Diplo vote, I spread the TAP religion to him, AND I persuaded him into a change of Civics, thereby giving him one turn of Anarchy, to ensure he could not convert to the TAP religion, and ensure he was at No State Religion at the point of the Diplo vote, and not in the TAP religion. Therefore, he voted for me, rather than voting for himself (and, furthermore, his vote for me counted double, given that he converted to the TAP religion in the intervening turn, while votes were being counted). That bit of micromanagement was the reason I achieved a victory, rather than a defeat.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I had another series of attempts - this time with Bismarck, rather than Qin. I didn't, however, manage to pop any Technologies of note from goody huts.

Given a Sound Strategy, a Superb Strategist and Tactician, like ianw1610, no Technologies popped from Huts are required to achieve a great Finish Date.

I finally got an optimal map on MapFinder... completed the AP on turn 73, and got the Diplo Victory vote screen in 1800BC... however I was still 3 turns away from Alphabet at that point so nobody voted for me. Obviously I should have delayed completion of the AP by 4 of 5 turns... I'd have won somewhere in the 1700BC-1650BC range for sure, but hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!

Perhaps, you missed my early comments in this thread about delaying TAP so Alphabet could be completed 2-4 turns prior to the first RL DV Ballot? See the bottom of post:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7997628&postcount=134

And this post that describes it in painful detail (in a pedantic manner):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8000802&postcount=155

How many Forests were within Ring3 (BFC + 16 Ring3 Tiles surrounding it) of your starting position?

In my opinion, any start with less than 20 Forests within Ring3 can't win this Gauntlet. Two Commerce tiles are required. A Food Resource is highly recommended as well, especially when one might need to Pop rush Missionaries in the end game.

Maybe, we will hear more about the Strategy you employed later?

My best game was a 1500BC finish (5th place at the moment). At the end, I ran out of forests, so had to switch to Slavery and whip the missionaries. Finished the game with just 1 x Size-1 city, and scored just 18,000 points!!! In that game, Zara had No State Religion, but I needed his vote to win, as at least one other leader was clearly not going to vote for me. I fortified a missionary in one of Zara's cities ~5 turns before the Diplo vote, but still no other religion spread to him. So... one turn before the Diplo vote, I spread the TAP religion to him, AND I persuaded him into a change of Civics, thereby giving him one turn of Anarchy, to ensure he could not convert to the TAP religion, and ensure he was at No State Religion at the point of the Diplo vote, and not in the TAP religion. Therefore, he voted for me, rather than voting for himself (and, furthermore, his vote for me counted double, given that he converted to the TAP religion in the intervening turn, while votes were being counted). That bit of micromanagement was the reason I achieved a victory, rather than a defeat.

Excellent tactics in converting a Civ with no Religion to TAP Religion on the 14th turn after TAP (turn before the RL DV Ballot), bribing the same Civ into Anarchy, so it will not be able to convert to TAP Religion in its part of the 14th turn and will thus still vote for the Player. Even better, the same Civ will convert to TAP Religion in the turn the RL DV Ballot is presented (turn 15 = turn 1 of the new 14 turn cycle), thus doubling the Civ's Votes for the Player!

Congratulations on a well deserved Win! It deserves a better rank in my opinion.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Mesix]

Wow...I let map finder run all day long and got a bunch of crap maps. Maybe I can find the diamond in the rough before the update...probably not.

 

[ianw1610]

Given a Sound Strategy, a Superb Strategist and Tactician, like ianw1610, no Technologies popped from Huts are required to achieve a great Finish Date.

Thank you, kind sir! A lot of the micromanagement, I learned from ideas mooted on the forum by Sun Tzu Wu, a genuine CIV expert, and a true gentleman with respect to the kind words of strategic help given to other players.

Perhaps, you missed my early comments in this thread about delaying TAP so Alphabet could be completed 2-4 turns prior to the first RL DV Ballot?

I saw the comments, but decided to take the risk, as I figured 1650BC would probably be good for 2nd or 3rd place in this gauntlet, but the opportunity to possibly get a 1775BC finish was too good to miss. I was hoping for one of two things, to help me win the Diplo vote:

- either I could pick up Alphabet from a trade, and gift lots of techs to the other rivals;
- or someone would spread a "true" religion to me, and would vote for me based on shared religion diplomacy (presumably coupled with shared civic diplomacy). I intentionally spread the TAP religion to one of Hatty's larger cities, to cover the eventuality that I would share a religion with her, and she would vote for me - but I never got that second religion...

How many Forests were within Ring3 (BFC + 16 Ring3 Tiles surrounding it) of your starting position?

In the optimal, missed-1775BC win (which, by the way, I won at the second Diplo vote election, 14 turns later in 1425BC), the BFC had 1 riverside grassland Gems and 1 riverside plains hill Gold (it was only ever a size 2 city). I settled the city on a plains hill. The BFC had 13 forests, and the third ring had 7 forests.

In the 1500BC game, the BFC had 2 Oases and 2 plains hill Gold, and again I settled the city on a plains hill. That city ran at size 4 for most of the game, before I whipped it down to size 1 at the end, to get the missionaries out. It had 11 forests in the BFC, plus a further 9 forests in the third ring.

 

[Mesix]

I played and played and got my best finish yet...I shaved off one whole turn from my previous best.

Oh well...maybe I'll haev time for one more before the update.

 

[Denniz]

Real good gauntlet guys. Results went to score for the tie breaker:

G-Minor 70 - Deity, Small, Religious, Epic
1^st Sun Tzu Wu 1650 BC 39412 pts
2^nd WastinTime 1650 BC 33521 pts
3^rd RobertSmith 1575 BC

Congratulations!

 

[Ozbenno]

Well done everyone, I well participated in and discussed gauntlet.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yup, got me my first 2 deity wins

 

[Mesix]

Congratz to everyone who played.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Real good gauntlet guys. Results went to score for the tie breaker:

G-Minor 70 - Deity, Small, Religious, Epic
1^st Sun Tzu Wu 1650 BC 39412 pts
2^nd WastinTime 1650 BC 33521 pts
3^rd RobertSmith 1575 BC

Congratulations!

Congratulations to all that played!

23 players posted Wins in the second Deity Minor Gauntlet ever. Must be near a participation record for any Deity Gauntlet.

WastinTime, RobertSmith, Misotu, and ianw1610 should really pat themselves on the back for hitting the target of a turn 100 BC 1500 Win that was originally predicted by WastinTime. Great participation (13 pages) in the Gm-70 thread from the folks mentioned above, Mesix, unclethrill (who clued me onto chopping Workers very early), ParadigmShifter, cabert, oyzar, Ozbenno, Kuningas, Miraculix, SirDrake, Robert_Marshall, Dracandross, and many others ...

As always, I'm happy to provide any Strategy or Tactical tips ... Especially, now that the Gauntlet is over.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Thank you, kind sir! A lot of the micromanagement, I learned from ideas mooted on the forum by Sun Tzu Wu, a genuine CIV expert, and a true gentleman with respect to the kind words of strategic help given to other players.

You are too kind with your words.

I saw the comments, but decided to take the risk, as I figured 1650BC would probably be good for 2nd or 3rd place in this gauntlet, but the opportunity to possibly get a 1775BC finish was too good to miss. I was hoping for one of two things, to help me win the Diplo vote:

- either I could pick up Alphabet from a trade, and gift lots of techs to the other rivals;
- or someone would spread a "true" religion to me, and would vote for me based on shared religion diplomacy (presumably coupled with shared civic diplomacy). I intentionally spread the TAP religion to one of Hatty's larger cities, to cover the eventuality that I would share a religion with her, and she would vote for me - but I never got that second religion...

In my final game that I paused at turn 86, about two hours ago (just before the update), I was in a very similar situation, except I completed TAP on turn 74, headed for a potential turn 90 BC 1750 Win. I needed Alphabet by turn 88 minimum to trade Technologies for Diplomatic boni.

Via Espionage, I see that Mansa Musa will complete Alphabet two turns too late to affect the DV vote. Can someone please describe how to delay the RL DV Ballot. It seems that it can be delayed up 4 turns, but I can only guess at what must be done to do it.

In the optimal, missed-1775BC win (which, by the way, I won at the second Diplo vote election, 14 turns later in 1425BC), the BFC had 1 riverside grassland Gems and 1 riverside plains hill Gold (it was only ever a size 2 city). I settled the city on a plains hill. The BFC had 13 forests, and the third ring had 7 forests.

The Game I mentioned above had a similar start, 1 riverside grassland Gems and 1 plains hill Gold (not riverside though) and 13 Forests in BFC and 7 Forests in Ring 3. My Capital never exceeded size 2 either. Had several Ring 3 Forests stolen or nearly stolen by two close neighbors, Hatshespsut and Ramesses II.

Got 3 Missionaries built and posed over Cities with no Religion yet. I have a range of City sizes 2-6 that could be converted. All Civs have a State Religion. My City has Hinduism, Mansa Musa State Religion which is no advantage here (already converted a 2P City of his).

Any suggestions for proceeding? Obviously too late for the Gauantlet, but I'd like to still squeeze out a Win. If DV can be delayed, maybe a turn 92 BC 1700 Win.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Wow...I let map finder run all day long and got a bunch of crap maps. Maybe I can find the diamond in the rough before the update...probably not.

Was it the Boreal Map? Since all (as far as I've ever seen) Gems on that Map are on Tundra Hills and Plains Hills with no Food, one has to re-evaluate what a good start on this Map really is. Worst yet, almost all Gems have Forests on top of them, meaning one needs Bronze Working to chop the Forest (which takes 5 or 6 turns on Epic speed) before one can Mine the Gems.

One may think that at least one Gems Tile needs to be without a Forest on it, so it can be immediately Mined, but I don't think this is required for a good start. Before I came to this conclusion, I spent well over a week of non-Playing time running MapFinder on a Boreal Map with Bismarck and not finding what I thought would be even close to an ideal start. (Gems on Boreal with a Forest is relatively rare.)

At least a Boreal Map start will always have enough Forests and also enough Space between Civs, so Close Borders doesn't become a Diplomatic issue.

With all other Maps, the vast majority of two Mining Resource starts will not have near enough Forests inside the Ring 3 City Boundary. I'd say 20 Forests is about the minimum required for an Epic Speed, RL DV Game with a turn 90 BC 1970 Win goal. I still say that Pangaea is the best non-Boreal Map for a RL DV Game.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Mesix]

I was running Pangea. I like gems that support themselves (grassland river) or gold with a grassland food tile. I can get a much faster start on a Pangea map. I tried Terra a few days ago, but there seems to be fewer two commerce (gold or gems) starts on terra. Maybe all the precious metals are in the new world on Terra.