Game Mechanics - Beyond The Sword 3.19

Kaitzilla · Apr 7, 2021

War Success Mechanic - Getting the AI to talk and capitulate during war

Fully 1/3rd of getting an AI to capitulate involves "war success".
A few people have tried to explain it before.

EmperorFool mentioned it
Kossin mentioned it
Tachywaxon (Manco Capac) mentioned it

Tachy's explanation seems the most complete:

Manco Capac said:
2) The second check is "You're joking, right!" denial, which is basically a thing for capitulation only, not peacevassaling.
It's basically tied to War Success system where once you reach the threshold of 40 points, the AI is willing to relinquish power. It's basically a denial that says do damages before considering we have lost.

How War Success is calculated?

There's a balance Sheet for both sides and a substraction is done. Positive WSuccess on your side and negative on the capitulee side.

Attacking and win ==> 4 points
Defending and win ==> 3 points
Capture a city ==> 10 points
Capture a worker or settler ==> 1 points
Nuke ==> always 10 points per explosion
Units in Ships ==> 0 points
Workers/Settlers that accompany some escort ==> It is an amalgam of attacking a unit plus the # of non combat units captured.
Example: Won over an archer and captured two workers at the same time is worth 6 war success points.

Let me check real quick

Nuke always gives 10 war success per explosion - Yes confirmed
Keep in mind that units vaporized to death and vanishing from a nuke count as 0 war success, so no bonus from casualties :sad:

Also, the nuke must explode inside the AI borders or damage their unit in neutral territory somewhere to get 10 war success. :hmm:

Nuking neutral territory at the north pole gives 0 war success.
Nuking an invisible enemy unit like Spy or Stealth Destroyer counts as 0 war success, but if the Stealth Destroyer is revealed by your own Stealth Destroyer, nuking it counts as 10 war success.

Capture a Worker or Settler 1 war success each - Yes confirmed
Keep in mind that attacking a worker by itself is 4 war success.

Attacking a stack of 3 workers and capturing them is 4+1+1=6 war success
Attacking an Archer and killing it while capturing 1 worker and 1 settler would be 4+1+1=6 war success

Capture a Sea Unit, Air Unit, or Missile unit when capturing a city gives 1 war success each - Yes confirmed
Keep in mind that if a city is unguarded by regular military units and only has sea/air/missile units in it, the top unit gives 4 war success and the rest give 1 war success each.
So capturing an unguarded city with 2 ICBM, 1 Destroyer, and 2 Jet fighters would give 10+4+1+1+1+1=18 war success.
Capturing a guarded city with 1 Archer, 3 ICMB, 1 Battleship, and 1 Airship would give 10+4+1+1+1+1+1=19 war success.

Capture a City 10 war success - Yes confirmed

Attack and win gives 4 war success - Yes confirmed

Defend against an attack and win gives 3 war success - Yes confirmed

Sinking a naval transport with 4 units in a sea attack only gives 4 war success right? - Yes confirmed, sunk units that went down with the transport give 0 extra war success

For units that can withdraw:

Successful withdrawals after a failed attack generate 0 war success - Yes confirmed

Successful attacks by siege who then retreat after winning also generate 0 war success - Yes confirmed

A Catapult that captures 3 Workers gets 4+1+1 = 6 War success - Yes confirmed

A Cavalry that kills a Swordsman and 3 Trebuchets with a flanking attack gets 4+0+0+0 = 4 War success - Yes confirmed

Testing indicates that capitulation does indeed occur when the player has 40 more war success than the enemy AI does.
If the enemy AI wins some battles and gets 17 war success, then the player needs 57 war success to force a capitulation.
If the enemy AI wins a major assault and racks up 50 war success, then the player needs 90 war success to force a capitulation. :sad:

Giving away 4 cities to the AI before the war starts and capturing them is a good way to start out getting 40 war success easily.

Kaitzilla · Apr 8, 2021

Diplomacy Modifiers - What are they, how do I gain them, and how do I get rid of them?

This was mentioned in Hesha's thread last year, but the answer was never completed.

A full list was proposed by AcaMetis.

AcaMetis said:
I don't know all the possible modifiers and their duration (I think that's random and/or depends on the specific AI, in at least some cases), but here's a list of all the defined text strings for diplo modifiers that I can find:

TXT_KEY_MISC_ATTITUDE:
"Our close borders spark tensions."
"This war spoils our relationship."
"Years of peace have strengthened our relations."
"We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith."
"We are upset that you have fallen under the sway of a heathen religion."
"We appreciate the years you have supplied us with resources."
"Our Open Borders have brought our people close together."
"Our Defensive Pact proves that we are close friends."
"We are upset that you have signed Defensive Pacts with our rivals."
"Our mutual military struggle brings us closer together."
"You have wisely chosen your Civics."
"Our trade relations have been fair and forthright."
"You have traded with our worst enemies!"

(Same added by BTS
"Past events have brought our people together."
"Past events have drawn our people apart."
"You have granted us our independence!"

TXT_KEY_MEMORY:
"You declared war on us!"
"You declared war on our friend!"
"You nuked us!"
"You nuked our friend!"
"You razed one of our cities!"
"You razed a Holy City!"
"Your spy was caught causing trouble!"
"You gave us help."
"You refused to help us!"
"You gave us tribute."
"You refused to give us tribute!"
"You accepted our state religion."
"You refused to accept our state religion!"
"You accepted our favorite civic."
"You refused to accept our favorite civic!"
"You agreed to come to our aid in war-time."
"You refused to help us during war-time!"
"You agreed to stop trading with our worst enemy."
"You refused to stop trading with our worst enemy."
"You stopped trading with us."
"You recently stopped trading with us!"
"You made an arrogant demand!"
"You recently made an arrogant demand!"
"You cancelled our open border agreement!"
"You have shared your technological discoveries with us."
"You received a tech from another civilization."

Normally hidden, but made visible through BULL/BUFFY:
"A first impression is a lasting one."
"Your team is too big."
"Your small civilization is no threat to us."
"We feel threatened by your large civilization."
"Developing nations should work together to catch up."
"The war is going badly for us."

For your specific questions I'm not sure if the resource +diplo fades, I assume it does. Fair Trade I know for sure does, although how quickly depends - the more the AI was traded "fairly" and the shorter you've known the AI, the longer it'll take to decay.

Ya, that will take a while. :cringe:

One at a time, slow and steady.
6K Man's humorous diplo modifiers when your opponent is a human. :hatsoff:

All the positive diplo modifiers are added up and all the negative diplo modifiers are subtracted to get a final number.
This determines how the AI feels towards the player. Very straightforward.

The diplomacy thresholds are as follows:

Friendly: +10 diplo or higher
Pleased: +3 diplo to +9 diplo
Cautious: -2 diplo to +2 diplo
Annoyed: -3 diplo to -9 diplo
Furious: -10 diplo or lower

First I'll go through the hidden diplomacy modifiers that are there but don't show up in BTS 3.19.
Then I'll go through the positive diplomacy modifiers.
And finally I'll go through the negative diplomacy modifiers.

Hidden Diplomacy Modifiers
Buffy 3.19.005 mod (and BAT before it I think) has revealed many hidden diplo modifiers, so I will use it to help test and explain for those playing unmodded Beyond the Sword patch 3.19.

1) A First Impression Is A Lasting One (Hidden)
..
The big daddy of hidden diplomacy modifiers, it is a combination of iBaseAttitude, iAttitudeChange, iWarmongerRespect, iBasePeaceWeight, and iPeaceWeightRand
It lasts the whole game and never goes away.

iBaseAttitude is a diplo modifier that each AI starts the game with.
It applies to everyone and is the same in each game.

Spoiler Base Attitude Values :

iAttitudeChange is a difficulty-based modifier that adjusts each AI's starting diplo towards the human player only and is defined in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml

Settler Difficulty +2
Chieftain Difficulty +1
Warlord Difficulty +0
Noble Difficulty -1
Prince Difficulty -1
Monarch Difficulty -1
Emperor Difficulty -1
Immortal Difficulty -1
Deity Difficulty -1

iBaseAttitude + iAttitudeChange equals the A First Impression Is A Lasting One hidden diplomacy value that the AI has against the human player at the start of the game.

Since 95% of Civ 4 games are on Noble Difficulty and up, that means Tokugawa will always start the game with -2 A First Impression Is A Lasting One against the human player.
That's why Tokugawa needs +5 additional diplomacy to get to Pleased and Open Borders.

There are 3 additional adjustments that "A First Impression Is A Lasting One" has when applied to AI->AI diplomacy.

iWarmongerRespect is a diplo modifier that AI apply to AI have to make them not attack each other so much.
It was explained wonderfully by Seven05. :goodjob:

Spoiler Warmonger Respect Values :

Two AI will compare their iWarmongerRespect, and whichever has the lowest means both AI gets that diplo modifier for each other.
So Tokugawa (iWarmongerRespect =2) and Gandhi (iWarmongerRespect = 0) will have +0 diplo with each other due to warmonger respect.
Alexander (iWarmongerRespect =2) and Zara (iWarmongerRespect =1) will have +1 diplo with each other due to warmonger respect.

iBasePeaceWeight is a value that each AI has.
Again explained wonderfully by Seven05. :thumbsup:

Spoiler Base Peace Weight Values :

iPeaceWeightRand = 3 for all AI, and due to some ugly coding which subtracts 1 (thanks Dresden!), it randomly adds +0, +1, or +2 to an AI's iBasePeaceWeight at the start of a new game.

Then after iBasePeaceWeight + iPeaceWeightRand occurs for each AI, they are compared to each other and subtracted to get the difference. (absolute value gets rid of any negative signs)
The AI to AI diplo modifier based on peace weights (adjusted by a random roll) is then 3 - the difference in adjusted peace weights. (Verified with testing, I'm not sure why the code says 4 - the difference in adjusted peace weights :confused:

)

Say we are comparing Brennus (0) who rolled from 0 to 2 and got a +0 to Gandhi (10) who rolled from 0 to 2 and got a +2.
In this game, their peace weight difference would be abs(0-12) = 12
That means a diplo modifier of (3-12)= -9 for Gandhi to Brennus and -9 for Brennus to Gandhi.
With Brennus' starting attitude of -1 to everyone and Gandhi's 0 warmonger respect, it is possible to see Brennus start the game Furious with Gandhi once they meet at a whopping -10 A First Impression Is A Lasting One :eek:

(1 in 9 chance)

Bringing all the diplo modifiers that govern AI-to-AI A First Impression Is A Lasting One together, compare Joao who rolled a PeaceWeightRand of 1 to Mansa who rolled a 0.
Joao starts at +0 base attitude and Mansa starts at +1
Joao has +1 warmonger respect and Mansa has +0 warmonger respect, so their diplo gets modified by +0 for both.
Joao has (6+1)=7 Peace Weight and Mansa has (9+0)=9 Peace Weight.
The difference is abs(7-9)=2
Their diplo is modified by (3-2) = +1 diplomacy for both.
So Joao has (0+1) = +1 A First Impression Is A Lasting One towards Mansa at the start of the game.
And Mansa has (1+1) = +2 A First Impression Is A Lasting One towards Joao at the start of the game.

The hidden diplo modifier A First Impression Is A Lasting One that the AI's have towards the human can always be known at the start of the game when considering the game difficulty. :cool:

The AI-to-AI A First Impression Is A Lasting One diplo modifier can be calculated very well with base attitudes, warmonger respect, and peace weight differences, but iPeaceWeightRand adds in a little uncertainty on the exact diplomacy values between AI.

The Buffy Mod 3.19.005 does not get any special access to what iPeaceWeightRand rolled unless the Civ 4 Debugger (Chipotle and Control+Z once in-game) is running.
That means the mod's displayed value for of A First Impression Is A Lasting One between AI simply ignores iPeaceWeightRand and A First Impression Is A Lasting One can be off by as much as +2 or -2 diplomacy points. :sad:

Test map check
This is the reason why I adjusted the formula from 4 - the difference in adjusted peace weights in the code to 3 - the difference in adjusted peace weights

Spoiler :

There, done with the first one! :whew:

If anyone can figure out my problem with the peace weights formula, let me know please.

2) We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization (Hidden)
..
This one is a diplomatic penalty the AI gives when you are a certain amount of places higher than them on the scoreboard. (AI also give it to other AI)
*Keep in mind that the scoreboard is universal, so unmet AI at the start of the game affect scoreboard calculations the same as met AI.

It was defined by Ori as:

ori said:
Item 7 (not visible) if THEM is higher ranking: +(RankDifference*iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange/(NumberOfPlayersEverAlive+1))

Spoiler Worse Rank Attitude Change :

In a game with the human player and 6 AI, NumberOfPlayersEverAlive = 7
In a game with the human player and 10 AI, NumberOfPlayersEverAlive = 11
NumberOfPlayersEverAlive does not change when a civ dies.

Let's say in a game with 6 AI the human is at the top of the scoreboard and Genghis Khan is in last place.

Spoiler :

The Rank Difference is 7-1 = 6
The scoreboard situation means Genghis will feel a We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization diplomacy penalty towards the human player of the following amount:
+(RankDifference*iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange/(NumberOfPlayersEverAlive+1))
+((7-1)*(-1)/(7+1) = +(6)*(-1)/8 = -0.75 which rounds down to -0

It seems in a regular game, Genghis won't have any We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization diplomacy penalty.

Next, is there any way to make Genghis have a -1 penalty considering the human player is 1st on the scoreboard and Genghis is last?
How about adding some colonies?
One is not enough, but two is.

Spoiler :

This result indicates that newly formed colonies do NOT increase NumberOfPlayersEverAlive.

With 2 extra colonies in the game, Genghis Khan did drop 2 more places on the scoreboard though.
+(RankDifference*iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange/(NumberOfPlayersEverAlive+1))
+((9-1)*(-1)/(7+1) = +(8)*(-1)/8 = -1
So Genghis finally has -1 We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization due to the addition of 2 colonies pushing him farther away from the human player on the scoreboard.

Practically speaking, in a game without colonies the only AI that can give -1 We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization diplo are ones with a large iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange:

Alexander -2
Brennus -2
Catherine -2
De Gaulle -2
Gilgamesh -2
Justinian -2
Louis XIV -2
Montezuma -3
Peter -2
Shaka -2
Stalin -3
Suryavarman II -2

In a standard game with 6 AI, most of these AI have to be 4 places on the scoreboard behind the player or AI before they will give -1 diplo.
The jealous and fearful Montezuma and Stalin would have to be 3 places behind on the scoreboard to give -1 diplo and 6 places behind on the scoreboard to give -2 diplo!

Spoiler :

For completeness sake, here is Willem in a game with 6AI and 2 colonies giving the ultra-rare +1 We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization bonus. :lol:

Spoiler :

3) Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us (Hidden)
..
This one is a diplomatic bonus the AI gives when you are a certain amount of places lower than them on the scoreboard. :pat:

(AI also give it to other AI)
*Keep in mind that the scoreboard is universal, so unmet AI at the start of the game affect scoreboard calculations the same as met AI.

It was defined by Ori as:

ori said:
Item 8 (not visible) if THEM is lower ranking: +((-RankDifference)*iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange/(NumberOfPlayersEverAlive+1))

Spoiler Better Rank Attitude Change :

The math is the same with Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us as it is for We Feel Threatened By Your Large Civilization.

In a game with the human player and 8 AI, NumberOfPlayersEverAlive = 9
NumberOfPlayersEverAlive does not change when a civ dies.

Let's say in a game with 8 AI the human is at the bottom of the scoreboard and Isabella is in first place.

The scoreboard situation means Isabella will feel a Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us diplomacy bonus towards the human player of the following amount:
+((-RankDifference)*iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange/(NumberOfPlayersEverAlive+1))
+(-(1-9)*(+1)/(9+1) = (8)*(1)/10 = 8/10 = +0.8 which rounds down to 0

Spoiler :

It seems in a regular game with no colonies, Isabella won't have any Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us diplo bonus for anyone. :sad:

Once again 2 colonies must be founded in the game to increase the scoreboard difference from 8 to 10 before Isabella will give +1 diplo Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us.
But is it even possible for the human player to be lower than their own colonies on the scoreboard?
The answer is no, almost impossible.
Half the population score increase from each colony is given to the master on the scoreboard and population is the main way to increase score.
Founding colonies did not increase the distance between the player and Isabella on the scoreboard.

Spoiler :

What if the AI founds 2 colonies?
Yes, that works as long as they are higher than the human player on the scoreboard.

Spoiler :

But wait, don't vassals take the place below their master on the scoreboard regardless of their score?
They do, but it is still possible for a vassal to have a score low enough to be on the bottom of the scoreboard anyway.
Here the human player appears to be on the bottom of the scoreboard in 11th place, but they are actually in 9th and the +1 diplo bonus from Isabella is missing due to that fact.

Spoiler :

Practically speaking, in a game without colonies the only AI that can give +1 Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us diplo are ones with a large iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange:

Asoka 3
Cyrus 2
De Gaulle 2
Frederick 2
Genghis Khan 2
Hatshepsut 2
Joao II 2
Kublai Khan 3
Mansa Musa 4
Mehmed II 3
Pacal II 2
Peter 2
Ragnar 2
Ramesses II 2
Roosevelt 2
Saladin 2
Wang Kon 3
Zara Yaqob 2

For the AI with a better rank difference =2 in a standard game with 8 AI, these AI have to be 5 places ahead on the scoreboard before they will give +1 diplo.
For the AI with a better rank difference =3 in a standard game with 8 AI, these AI have to be 4 places ahead on the scoreboard before they will give +1 diplo and 7 places ahead on the scoreboard before they will give +2 diplo.
For Mansa with a better rank difference =4 in a standard game with 8 AI, he has to be 3 places ahead on the scoreboard before he will give +1 diplo, 5 places ahead on the scoreboard before he will give +2 diplo, and 8 places ahead on the scoreboard before he will give +3 diplo.

Spoiler :

Here is Willem in a game with 8AI and 2 colonies (ahead of the human on the scoreboard) giving the impossibly ultra-rare -1 Your Small Civilization Is No Threat to Us diplo penalty. :crazyeye:

Spoiler :

4) Developing Nations Should Work Together to Catch Up (Hidden)
..
**Under Construction**

Kaitzilla · Apr 9, 2021

Reserved

Kaitzilla · Apr 9, 2021

Reserved

Pangaea · Apr 14, 2021

Perhaps you've already linked to this, I've only skimmed this one (sorry), but I recall this thread by Tachywaxon being very informative: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...arification-of-certain-game-mechanics.464503/

Kaitzilla · Apr 14, 2021

Pangaea said:
Perhaps you've already linked to this, I've only skimmed this one (sorry), but I recall this thread by Tachywaxon being very informative: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...arification-of-certain-game-mechanics.464503/

Ya, that's a legendary thread for game mechanics.

I will definitely be using it for 99% of the mysterious Fair Trade +diplo bonus.

Kaitzilla · Apr 29, 2021

Flavors - What an AI tends to tech more often

I've noticed that Civ Illustrated #1 has some broken links due to important hosted files dying over the years as college was graduated, accounts were closed, etc.

Flavors was one of the casualties, so I'm fixing it right now.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/#post-11931677

10) Flavors describe what kind of techs a civilization pursues. The flavor strength was converted from numbers to words as follows:

Flavor
2->Low
5->Medium
10->High

There are many factors that determine what technology a civ will pursue such as a random variable, a free tech or free great person (massive influence!), unlocks a religion(bigger factor if favorite), unlocks a unit, unlocks a wonder, unlocks a civic(bigger factor if favorite), the strategy the AI is pursuing, planning a war etc. It is thought that the flavor of the AI affects the tech choice perhaps 33% of the time.

All the techs in the game with the various flavors can be found here.
All the calculated values for the various AI based off their flavors and the flavors of the techs can be found here.

Just looking at those results, it becomes apparent that Joao, Lincoln, Peter, and Tokugawa like Education more than the rest of the AI and are more likely to tech it.

Running through a calculation: Hatshepsut has religion flavor of 2(Low) and culture flavor of 5(Medium). Aesthetics has religion flavor of 2, science flavor of 6, and culture flavor of 8. So Hatshepsut calculates Aesthetics to have a value of 2*2+5*8=44. Mathematics has gold flavor of 2, production flavor of 1, military flavor of 1, and science flavor of 10. So Hatshepsut calculated Mathematics to have a value of 0. She will tend to tech Aesthetics before Mathematics.

Since flavors only influence what techs are researched to a limited degree, the usefulness on this info isn't as great as it could be. However, there is no denying that on average Isabella techs religions and Genghis Khan goes after Military Tradition, Rifling, and Artillery when they get the chance.

There is no way I'm calculating and writing out all results 52 AI have for all 92 techs in a forum post! (4784 numbers)
All that stuff is going in a spreadsheet using OpenOffice that is free program to download and use.

I labored over the .XML files to get all the flavor values for the techs, copied some stuff from DanF's spreadsheet, and added in some Vlookup functions.
All that is required is selecting the AI and gazing at their flavor values for tech choices.

Spoiler :

Instructions were left on how to sort the results.

Spoiler :

Click on Sheet 2 in the bottom left corner of the spreadsheet to see all the leader and tech flavor values.
Tech costs in :science:

are the base values for a player without any modifiers on Noble difficulty, Duel-sized map, Normal Speed.

I'll compress the spreadsheet into a .zip file and attach it at the bottom of this post.
If you can't unzip files for some reason, I think 7zip is a decent program.

Make sure to extract the file completely onto the desktop.
Otherwise it will say (Read-Only) and it is impossible to use the sort function. :sad:

Kaitzilla · Apr 29, 2021

Here is some of why flavors are thought to only influence about 1/3rd of an AI's tech choice.

First, a good link:

3.19 AI Tech Choice Code

Since it came up in the Pro/Agg argument, I got interested in how the AI chooses its next research item. The code for this is in the file CvPlayerAI.cpp, in the function CvPlayerAI::AI_bestTech(). It is a very long function, and rather hard to understand in terms of what it does in the game...

forums.civfanatics.com

Next, some examples.

Classical Start /17 AI / Huge map / No goodie huts (Human and AI all have the same techs)

Spoiler :

In one save, the player has the U.N. and forced all the AI to meet each other on Turn 1.
On Turn 2 they are all teching Alphabet for the most part.

Spoiler :

On the same save but with no U.N., the player infiltrated every AI with a Great Spy to see what they are teching.
And since none of the AI have met each other, it is mostly Iron Working. :hmm:

Spoiler :

Game Mechanics - Beyond The Sword 3.19

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