Game Settings and Leader Choice

DaveMcW

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Oct 8, 2002
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The settings for the game are:

Map: Custom Mystery Map
Map Size: Standard
Huts: Off
Events: Off
Vassal States: Off
Barbarians: Normal
Tech Trading: Normal
Difficulty Level: Monarch
Game Speed: Normal
Turns: Simultaneous
Duplicate Leaders: Yes
Restricted Leaders: Yes

With these settings in place, your team should now be able to finalize your choice of leader. Teams are allowed to use the same leader. If you really want a unique leader, you can submit a list of alternate leaders to be used if someone else gets your top pick.

I also need a game password for your team.

The deadline for picking your leader(s) will be Thursday, April 1.
 
In this thread we can discuss the leader choice. The poll will start on March 30 and will include all the leaders that were suggested in this thread, so make sure you make you favorite leader known here!

PS. I guess this also mean we are playing with 1 civ...
 
With a map that is probably going to give us some room, I vote we pursue a flexible leader. Some suggestions:

Julius Caesar (Can mass expand or throw down with iron)
Catherine (Mass expansion or fast GPP for an early boost)
Sully (Mass expansion, GPP, good mid-game UU in this format potentially)
Joao (Follow Cav's look from last game)
Capac (UU and UB allow us a lot of flexibility as nobody can choke or attack us until strategic resources and we save hammers on expansion.)
Cyrus (mass expansion, happy cap push, potentially devastating unique)
Hatty (well rounded with a UU people will notice)
Mali (almost untouchable by early rushes, long term traits)

I definitely recommend a heavy expander. My personal vote goes to Cyrus of Persia. We have the potential to hand someone an early exit that way, but have enough hammers and economy to survive a lot of expansion. Our mid-late game military will be formidable thanks to CHA. Mali is potentially excellent too, and I doubt anybody would cry over getting Inca. So my vote:

1. Cyrus
2. Capac
3. Mansa Musa
 
I think everyone should put their top 3 choices in this thread the way TMIT did. That way our Poll Master, Norton I, can pick the 2 with the most votes and we can just vote on those 2.

I also would like to see the poll up for on the 29th instead on the 30th so we have at least 24 hours to vote and discuss.

I think we need a Financial leader for this kind of game. The extra commerce is a must. So My choices are
1. Capac (Fin,IND) - with Industrious we can possibly snag the Oracle and Pyramids:eek:
2. Mansa Musa (Fin, Spi) - For the reasons TMIT gave above.
3. Elizabeth (Fin/PHI) - With Philisophical we can spam those Great people and bulb tech in 1 turn.
 
I think everyone should put their top 3 choices in this thread the way TMIT did. That way our Poll Master, Norton I, can pick the 2 with the most votes and we can just vote on those 2.

Good plan, this way we can do it in one round of voting. So please, everybody, put up your top 3. (top choice gets 3 points, second 2 points, third 1 point) If you don't know how to make your choice, ask questions!

I also would like to see the poll up for on the 29th instead on the 30th so we have at least 24 hours to vote and discuss.

When the vote starts the 30th we have 48 hours if we interpret the deadline as before april 1, and even more if it is on april 1. Starting on the 29th is too early (that day has already started if you count GMT) for people to post their preference here.
 
I agree with what others have said that fast expansion and development of cities is the way to go with Tech Trading On, relying on diplomacy to keep tech parity. I would think a general strategy of rapidly settling and developing cities while defending against opportunistic attacks by our opponents would be a good early game. With more cities we can leverage them to a tech lead, at which time we can focus on attacking. I kept all this in mind when considering what leaders I wanted.

Growth:

Is the Imperial trait better for growth than Expansive. Imperial gives a 50% bonus to Settler production (hammers * 1.5, will need 1 per settled city), while Expansive gives a 25% bonus to Worker production (hammers * 1.25, will need 1 - 1.5 per city), but Expansive leader gets half-priced granaries (hammers * 2, will need one per city including capitol). I don't know for sure, but I think cheaper workers and half-priced granaries is stronger for growth than cheaper settlers. The GG points from fighting inside our own borders is an advantage we hope to never have to take advantage of since we hope to be fighting in our opponents' territory. Add to that Expansive civs get +2 :health: and cheaper harbors, and I'd rather go for Expansive. Please let me know if my logic is off or I'm not considering something.

For me it's between these:

Pacal II (Expansive/Financial) (Mysticism/Mining) (Holkan/Ball Court)
Mehmed II (Expansive/Organized) (Wheel/Agriculture) (Janissary/Hammam)
Suryavarayavarman II (Expansive/Creative) (Hunting/Mining) (Ballista Elephant/Baray)
Shaka (Expansive/Aggressive) (Hunting/Agriculture) (Impi/Ikhanda)
Joao II (Expansive/Imperialistic) (Fishing/Mining) (Carrack/Feitoria)

(Should I start calling him Shaka II just so he fits in?)

Mehmed II's UU comes at about the perfect time to be drafting from our grown cities and they are versatile since they get bonuses verses most troops. He has cheap courthouses and lighthouses in addition to granaries. He saves us a little money on civics (not nearly as good as Financial, but not nothing). He starts with Wheel so we can get an early Pottery for early cottages and cheap granaries.

I think Pacal II makes a strong case with his Financial trait. Expansive should help us grow early, and then Financial will kick in in all those cities. He also has an early resource-less UU for defense in case we don't have copper very near. He does allow us to play a religion first strategy. Although we might not want to start that way, at least he gives us the option.

Shaka is intriguing. He allows us to attempt an early rush, or at least to give off the threat of one to keep our neighbors honest. Aggressive is not my favorite trait, but he does come with cheap, very early mini-courthouses that provide experience to units. He starts with a scout for early exploration, which means earlier contact, meaning better chance at trade alliances.

Joao II gets cheap settlers along with cheap workers and cheap granaries. That's pretty good growth potential. His second trait doesn't help our economy though, so with Joao it's all growth.

Suryavarayavarman II has the potential for a lot of growth with cheap granaries and his UB. His UU is a little too weak in my opinion, since while the map-maker will surely give us each some kind of early strategic resource (copper/horse/iron) there's no guarantee we get an ivory resource. He does start with a scout for early exploration. His Creative trait can be pretty good trait in the early game, and they will allow us to build our cheap granaries instead of monuments in new cities.

I think the map-maker will try to put us too far apart for an early rush to have good odds, and I do there will be enough water to make navies relevant. So for that reason I will put Joao ahead of Shaka.

My Choices:
1. Mehmed II
2. Pacal II
3. Joao II
 
I agree with Silent that the teams will be probably not be very close to each other at the start. Also, the map will probably be extremely balanced, so it's unlikely that we won't have early access to good resources. I suspect that we'll first go through a phase of expansion and only later start wars, so I'm looking for a leader that can expand quickly, has an early UB and a not-to-early UU. Mehmed II scores great on all accounts.

However... I am not sure if it's true that expansive is better than imperialistic for growing fast. It is true that you build more workers than settlers, but 1.5 workers per city is still only 90 hammers/city to 100 hammers for each settlers. Getting the cheaper granary wins you hammers again, but when we want to grab lands away from our neighbours what counts is that our settler is there first, not when the granary is ready.

So I vouch for the other great Ottoman: Suleiman, who is imperialistic/philosophical. for rapid expansion with good GP rate.

Capac is on my list because the terraces take away the need to build monuments, and, let's face it... geographically he IS the amazons! :goodjob: Cyrus completes the list.

My choice is:
1. Suleiman
2. Capac
3. Cyrus
 
EXP can compete with IMP for early expansion if you can get the granaries set up quickly enough to share production of expanding units.

Don't forget the side benefit to IMP, it's not immaterial.

One thing I should point out is that resource trades may or may not shake out favorably for us, and thus EXP and CHA are both a little stronger than they'd have been otherwise, as there will be less pressure to rely on resources.

Obviously traits like ORG, SPI, and PHI are going to be pretty good regardless of map. SPI makes us pretty resilient vs civic flips, though I'm not convinced that such will be a big issue.
 
Don't forget the side benefit to IMP, it's not immaterial.

I didn't forget about. I was actually wrong about it. I, for some reason, got it mixed up with the bonus the Great Wall gives. I thought IMP gave extra GG points inside cultural borders only. This doesn't make any sense, since that's not what Imperialistic means. Well, yeah, that's better than I gave it credit for.
 
I always get major anxiety to decide on which civ. :/

Here's my reasoning:
  • I think we need to expand quick as TMIT says, so IMP is a really good trait. It gives a nice boost to our armies later on as well and that's a nice segue to the next point.
  • I think we will need to have decent armies and CHA is a great trait for that as it not only gives a boost to armies, it also gives an early happiness boost which is neat. Cyrus fits both the preceding traits.
  • Another very solid trait which is my favourite is FIN. Maybe the ugly old hag Vicky? Or if we forego REX, Hannibal? I also think Hannibal has a great UB if the map has a lot of coastal space.
  • The last point I want to make is the PHI trait. Spamming GPs is always a good strategy. I think the only one that would make sense in this case would be Sully as he has a great UU and a nice UB.
    I don't think that the two leaders who are PHI/CHA (Abe) and PHI/FIN (Liz) are all that good and those combos don't make sense if we want to expand quickly. Another point against Abe is because of America's ridiculously late UB and UU.

So...To get some points going, I guess I'll put my top three as such:

  1. Cyrus
  2. Suleiman
  3. Victoria

I already feel anxious about my decision. :(
 
well, i'm not at at all an expert in Civ, but to me it seems Hammurabi is a solid leader if we want a big empire. His agg trait helps building barracks and promoting soldiers, while Org helps controlling the great empire, building courthouses to cut maintenance and lighthouses to help grow cities. His UU is maybe a little early, but still good for defending against barbs.

1. Hammurabi
2. Mansa
3. Capac
 
1. Capac
2. Cyrus
3. Elizabeth

I'm a big believer in Imperialistic, financial, and industrious, so a combination of any of those works for me...
 
I'll abstain in this.
 
I generally love to expand fast, so I'm all for imperialistic traits. After that though it becomes much more foggy for me... I love Joao, but I'm not sure a naval UU is going to be much help. Rome is always a strong choice, but I'm not a big fan of either leader. I think Cyrus, with the additional military and happiness bonuses, might be the best choice. Victoria, with the financial trait, is pretty powerful as well, but her UU comes rather late. Suleiman would be a strong choice as well, though then we'd likely have to focus on GPP farming more than excessively cottaging.

Overall, my choices are as follows:

1. Cyrus - early UU, great traits for warfare + happiness bonus
2. Sulieman - gets the edge over Victoria because of an earlier UU, though its usefulness is debatable
3. Victoria - you can't go wrong with the financial trait, it'll let us keep our tech rate up even with massive early expansion
 
I think the AMAZON leader should be a fairly attractive woman, hence

1. Boudica
2. Bella
3. Cathy
No way the most attractive female leaders are clearly, Cathy (because she slaps you around), Hatty(because she is half naked and nicely bronzed) and Lizzy(because she is the only non-brunette) in that order... But I digress:mischief:

TMIT makes a great point that Spiritual gives us great defense against the civic-change mission... and also a great incentive to use it against other teams:goodjob:. This might give us an edge against Sirius and Merlot, because their team leaders probably do not want to spend $$ on espy or espy defense.

Mali is looking better and better.
 
@Harvman: I like the way you think. ;D

I was a bit confused here until I looked up and saw you had the exact same leaders, in the exact same order. Obviously it should be down to those 3 since we both came up with the same exact choices. ;)
 
No way the most attractive female leaders are clearly, Cathy (because she slaps you around), Hatty(because she is half naked and nicely bronzed) and Lizzy(because she is the only non-brunette) in that order... But I digress:mischief:

hmm, maybe we should make a poll on the public forum, "who is the most attractive leader?", and then we choose the winner. If we then spam diplomacy screen on the other teams they will be so distracted by her(/him?) that they wont be able to play very well..

ok.. I dont feel Im helping very much, Ill be quiet for a while..
 
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