Games statistics

[JujuLautre]

Lots of time I found myself wondering if I did good in a game or not. And even if I know that, if I can win by domination in 1600 it's very good, it still does not say me anything about what I did good (or not) during the game.

Some of the questions I'm always telling myself:
- do I tech fast enough?
- do I have enough cities?
- do I have enough workers?
- is my army big enough?
etc.

I would like to compare with other people here about basic statistics, but it's not really possible, no one post any.

So I was thinking of posting here some stats about my most recent games. I would like other people to do the same, so that it's possible to compare, to help people to know if, during a game, they are doing good or not.
I'll begin the exercize, as I said, but will be happy if other people could do the same. My intent is not to make graphs or stats about all these, just a database, that everyone can read and use as he will

Let's begin:
All games in this list are played at monarch, hemisphere maps, standard size, epic speed, 6 or 8 AI, no tech brokering
I made all these observations around 1AD for the sake of comparison; it seems to me a good date, as all early slinghots/rush/gambits have usually been made, as is the initial expansion

Suleiman, 10 AD
Situation: isolated; need to solve hapiness problems (just teched calendar, but not monarchy; hammams will help); optics is a prime target
Cities: 5 cities, 19 population
1 GP farm (capital), 1 production city, 3 commerce cities (2 news); 11 potential cities
Units: Small army, 4 workers
Economy: 3rd GNP: +51 , +3 , without surplus gold in the treasury.
Techs: Teched mostly to maths, currency, CoL, calendar; 16 techs; no monarchy, no IW yet (ignored religious techs)
Status: Game not finished (played for exercizing)

De Gaulle, 10 AD
Situation: isolated again; need to solve health problems (few health ressources); optics is a prime target again; plan was to make a wonder-heavy capital, beginning with stonehenge obv; lots of great generals born overseas
Cities: 4 cities, 24 population
1 Wonder city (capital) (producing some units), 3 commerce cities; 12 potential cities, not really good cities (lots of desert)
Units: Small army, 3 workers
Economy: 1st GNP: +59 , +5 or +66 , -1 , without surplus gold in the treasury.
Techs: Teched to the literature path (lots of good wonders); maths, aesthetics, currency, literature; 17 techs; now beelining optics/astronomy
Status: Game not finished

Pericles, 25 AD
Situation: on an island with frederick; ponnies, but no copper for me, and he settled his second city without copper in his inner ring, so chariot-rushed him. Now isolated; future health problems (few health ressources and flood plains), no happy problems (gold, gems, silver, whales, ivory, but n calendar); stone near a production/forest capital, so scored pyramids after the rush, and want great library in GP farm (ex german capital) to settle great scientists
Cities: 5 cities, 27 population
1 production city (capital), 3 commerce cities, 1 GP farm; 14 potential cities with few land tiles
Economy: +52 , +0 , without surplus gold in the treasury.
Techs: Teched to AH, literature; war slowed me down; have maths, aesth, literature, no monarchy, no IW; 17 techs; beelining optics (again!)
Status: Game won by space race in 1940, after a try at diplomacy win

Frederic, 10 AD
Situation: alone on an island, with hammurabi and ashoka reachable by coast, each on their own island; GP farm capital, 2nd city production (little bit too far), and 3rd city (commerce) late, so my economy tanked for a while; beelined alphabet, and I'm back on my feet.
Units: Small defense army for barbs, 4 workers
Cities: 5 cities, 18 population; few ressources, don't know yet how to solve that
1 GP farm (capital), 2 commerce cities, 1 production city; 11 potential cities
Economy: 1st GNP; +77 , +4 (60%), +86 , -2 (70%)
Techs: Teched to potery (3rd city with FP), IW (jungle), and alpha; got a bunch of techs, and monarchy/aesthetics by trading currency; 19 techs;
Status: situation open; possibly out-tech my neighbours before taking them down (good tech pace); game not played

Willem, 40 AD
Situation: 5 civs continent; jungle then Monty/Pacal to the north, Gilgamesh close on the west, Charlie too close on the south. Block gilgamesh expansion in my direction, and chariot-rush charlie (no copper for either of us); oracle monarchy (with marble), then gilga declare war (was planning to invade him) sending 3 units... lot's of potential ressource (after I own my continent)
Cities: 5 cities, 31 population; 3 production city (including apital), 2 commerce cities; 19 potential cities south of the jungle
Units: Invasion army (13 swords, 9 cats, + archers and chariots for defense), 6 workers
Economy: 2nd GNP (in the middle of an invasion!); +28 , +1 (30%), +37 , -7 (40%) (units cost me a lot); some surplus gold from battles
Techs: Teched to AH, BW, pot, and then priesthood, monarchy (oracle), IW, maths, construction, currency, CoL; 19 techs;
Status: Game in progress; took over gilga, and am attacking Monty; expected win by domination after having taken my continent; I'll just have to attack the remaining 2 civs.

 

[Andvare]

Too few workers in most of the scenarios, and too few cities IMHO. But then I usually play on large, and often on marathon. That is probably screwing my expectations.
Size of army: Depends on the competition. It should be so large that you decide who attacks.

 

[Refar]

A very good idea. I dont have nothing to contribute right now, but i will as soon as a new game is up...

One note: Perhaps you should make a standard-"macro" of how a report should look like, so everyone can use it, and so there is no doubt about what the statistics mean...

I.e. your economy part is somewhat unclear - i am not sure if by you mean gpt or gold in treasury... Because some lines have double entries: like
"+0 , without surplus gold." so +0 is gpt ? surplus is gpt too ? or Treasury ?

 

[JujuLautre]

Too few workers in most of the scenarios, and too few cities IMHO. But then I usually play on large, and often on marathon. That is probably screwing my expectations.
Size of army: Depends on the competition. It should be so large that you decide who attacks.

Thanks for the comments Andvare, but this was not the goal of the thread

One note: Perhaps you should make a standard-"macro" of how a report should look like, so everyone can use it, and so there is no doubt about what the statistics mean...

I thought about that, but I'm sure I would forget some things. A first draft could be:
- Game informations (map size, type of map, speed, this kind of information)
- Leader, civ (if unestricted leaders), date
- Situation: what interesting happened before
- Cities: number of cities, total population
- Units: # of workers is important imho (I'm sure some people have troubles because they don't build enough); size of the army too
- Economy: I think that gold/science per turn around the point where you don't make money gives a good idea of the shape of the economy; potential science could be interesting too
- Techs: just the number is irrelevant (it can be very low if you make deep beelines, or high if you trade a lot); the expensive techs/paths into the tree/ways of acquiring them seems important to me.
- Status: well, I must say, it's better if the game are finished (or on the way to finish), since we can make correlations like "+100 in 1AD => early win" (just an example, since this one is pretty obvious )

One of the things that motivated me to do this kind of comparison, at least for myself, was the introduction of the science per turn in the main interface with BTS. I much more often look at it and the gpt, instead of the sliders, to know my progress and my opportunities (of expansion mostly)

And if you have any idea, please share

I.e. your economy part is somewhat unclear - i am not sure if by you mean gpt or gold in treasury... Because some lines have double entries: like
"+0 , without surplus gold." so +0 is gpt ? surplus is gpt too ? or Treasury ?

I'm speaking of gold and science per turn. But if you have spare money, it's an interesting information, since it means you can push the slider up. I'll make it more clear.

 

[Andvare]

Thanks for the comments Andvare, but this was not the goal of the thread

I blame it on me having hangovers, and thus skipping the first part of your post.
Good idea though, now that I've read the original post properly.

 

[JujuLautre]

I blame it on me having hangovers, and thus skipping the first part of your post.
Good idea though, now that I've read the original post properly.

you're forgiven and even more because you seem to be one of the only one interested by my project

 

[oyzar]

Having less than +200 beakers at 1 ad hurts...

 

[JujuLautre]

Having less than +200 beakers at 1 ad hurts...

I don't know how true is your statement, but in any case, there is no reference on these forum that tells that.

And this is my goal by this thread: collect informations on games so that people can know if they are doing well, or not, by comparing with their own games. I'm calling people playing all difficulty levels, all kind of maps, to share these informations so that others can judge their games and make progress.

So if you're good enough tu pull 200 beakers at 1AD (something I'm unable to do personnaly), could you please contribute to this thread? Thanks

 

[slaze]

I don't know how true is your statement, but in any case, there is no reference on these forum that tells that.

And this is my goal by this thread: collect informations on games so that people can know if they are doing well, or not, by comparing with their own games. I'm calling people playing all difficulty levels, all kind of maps, to share these informations so that others can judge their games and make progress.

So if you're good enough tu pull 200 beakers at 1AD (something I'm unable to do personnaly), could you please contribute to this thread? Thanks

Bureaucratic capitol, often financial. To oyzar, everything's in terms of how fast you can get Civil Service and he's right. It's a very strong play.

And I agree. It'd be interesting to add Civil Service to that list and see how/if it shapes the distribution.

Anyway, back to statistics. I'd think you'd ultimately want the whole graph when comparing games. If there was only a way to get the whole graph and get alot of games

 

[oyzar]

There are others that are even more burrecracy centric than me . Burrecracy + cottages + academy + happiness(95% of the time monarchy contributes heavily) should generally be up by 1 ad though which means somewhere in the range of 100 to 200 beakers from that alone. Of course you need some other cities as well as an empire of a good capital will be smashed by a big empire of small cities... Get loads of good and big cities and you are often on the right way though.

I tried to start a discussion about something similar here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262257 but pretty much noone seemed interested.

Fundemental techsdates that should be noted are obviously dates for monarchy, CS and liberalism.

 

[macedon]

In my opinion at 1 ad your capitol should be at size 11-13 already have burocracy and science near 120, i will play a game on emperor with a non financial civ, and i wil poste a save,
regards,
Mackoti

 

[TheMeInTeam]

you're forgiven and even more because you seem to be one of the only one interested by my project

He isn't alone. I'll post when I get the chance to play again also. These metrics could wind up helping players a lot.

 

[spoooq]

I'd like to contribute as well. Is there a mod available that shows the actual turn count as well as the year? I think that might be useful for this sort of thing. I think we should include all techs researched as well as total beakers, it could start or stop a lot of arguments

 

[BARBEERIAN]

Ramesses, 60 AD
Emporer
Large Archipelago (low sea, snaky continents)

Note: Just started the game today. Normally my science isn't this high this early but some good luck came my way. Usually I'm between 30 - 90 beakers around 1 AD.

Situation: 4 Civs on my continent, all christians (Isabella, Sury, Huayna and myself). Isabella popped Alphabet from a hut really early which has accelerated the pace of tech on our continent (so early that i traded her mining for hunting). Also had an extremely fortunate start with stone in the 3rd ring of my capital, and marble underneath in my second city. Combining those with Ramesses IND trait has made for some really easy wonderspam.

Cities: 8 cities, 46 population
>Capital is a WE/SSE high food + hammer city (pushing 81 beakers and 26 base hammers). Size 11, 4 Scientists (2 from GL), 2 settled prophets + 1 Priest (ToA).
>2 food/hammer/sciencist cities
>4 food/hammer/merchant cities (1 city is still size 1 and isn't running any merchants yet).
There's room for another 4-5 cities peacefully.

Units: 9 Archers, 7 Axes, 8 Spears, 6 Warriors (all units are for defence)
9 Workers

Economy: 1st GNP, 1st MFG, 2nd Food
+156, 50% slider, -6 GPT, 120 Gold.

Techs: Teched AH > hutted Myst > Teched Mining/BW > Masonry > Writing off the start. Here's the 'end' techs I've got finished: Literature, Calendar, Currency, CoL, Monarchy, Iron Working. Got 4 turns left on Civil Service.

Wonders:
Thebes has (in order of production):
Stonehenge > Pyramids > Temple of Artemis > Parthenon > Great Library + an Academy.
Memphis has the Great Wall.

Status: Going to go Diplo or Space, been nothing but peaceful expansion and wonderspam at this point. I'll try for early diplo with the AP since our land is a big cozy peaceful Christian happy fun time. If that doesn't work as planned (might take awhile to get the other 4 unmet civs one christian city) Space it is.

 

[goldenhero]

I think this project is a really great idea. I'm not too good, but perhaps I could post a game and then compare with people to see how I measure up?

 

[oyzar]

whyever would you not have national epic in that city?

 

[VirusMonster]

1 AD data from a Huge Immortal Domination game

 

[oyzar]

lol virus . Funny thing though is that you are actually teching faster than BARBEERIAN even if you are mostly focusing on military.. Ofc with huge + one difficulty up you need it as techs are more expensive and you'll also prolly get way more from traderoutes. It is certanly very much doable to get alot more than that just from capital by that time(and i have), however msot of my games are mp and hence i can't really post saves...

 

[spoooq]

VirusMonster is teching faster than BARBEERIAN, but not huge amounts faster given he has 50% more cities and more than double the pop, and is a notch higher up on the slider to boot. Resource-trading and traderoutes seem to be a large part of VMs economy. Worth noting that both players have Pyramids and are using Rep to boost research.

 

[VirusMonster]

VirusMonster is teching faster than BARBEERIAN, but not huge amounts faster given he has 50% more cities and more than double the pop, and is a notch higher up on the slider to boot. Resource-trading and traderoutes seem to be a large part of VMs economy. Worth noting that both players have Pyramids and are using Rep to boost research.

I opened up my 1AD save and assigned as many specialist as I could afford while still staying at the equilibrium gold/science rate. Result was 354 per turn

Compared to Barbeerian, I have double the number of cities and more than double the number of population, 16 and 109 respectively. But the main problem is I control way too many happiness resources (definitely a good thing), and my cities must work the farms to grow to the population caps. With representation, Karakurum, my 2nd production center has +18 happiness and it currently at size 11(!). So it has a long way to grow to 18, (health cap at 13, but I can trade resources to increase it)

Not only do I need to grow to the population caps as fast as possible, but I also must use poprusing for unit production, because I am in a war. So I can't work cottages with farms, I end up working mainly mines with farms, so the empire isn't focused on commerce generation much.

Spooooq is right that my economy mainly depends on ResourceTrading and TradeRoute profits. Traderoute profits compansate half of the expenses, while ResourceTrading compansates 1/3 of the total expenses. Organized trait upkeep reduction translates to 1/3 of total expenses and boosts research by roughly 25%. so it is a strong hybrid economy...