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[GS] Gathering Storm Screenshots Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    They are all quite "imagined" history. I mean, first of all, they are ideologies, not governments. Fascism, communism or liberalism would have to be treated like 'modern' religions to capture their actual meaning. Facist and communist countries were mostly dictatorships or oligarchies, a few of them also republics. Democratic countries are, most of the time, republics.
     
  2. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    Yeah, Democracy was WAY too OP. Basically you didn't have to build any more neighborhoods, and the production bonus was HUGE. My go-to strategy was to get democracy, get the legacy card and then add it for double bonus.
     
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  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Yeah, it was insanely good. Probably should have figured the devs would catch on to that at some point. :D
     
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  4. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Democracy should be nerfed by having one of its wild card slots be replaced with either an economic policy slot or a diplomatic policy slot.

    After all, Communism only has one wild card slot.
     
  5. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    I think the justification is that what is interpreted as "democratic" is pretty fluid in the modern age.
     
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  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    I don't think it's Democracy's card allotments that need balancing. It's just that insane housing and production bonus. The bonus wild card makes sense IMO.
     
  7. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    They were truly ideologies in Civ 5, with huge impact on how other leaders viewed you, and a well fleshed out set of possible government bonuses customized to each.

    In Civ 6, they're portrayed as governments with two special bonuses assigned to each, and then some differentiation related to card slots. With no material impact on the game other than their special bonuses, that just shines a little more light on those specials, I guess.
     
  8. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Don't forget the Ideologue hidden agenda.
     
  9. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    It's very difficult to forget. :cringe: I just accept that any leader with that agenda will never be my friend... :sad:
     
  10. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    It's very different whether you treat ideologies like modern religions, to be spread throughout the world & being a victory condition, or if you just have an ideologue hidden agenda that just results in people like me going "Why the hell did my best buddy just declare war on me?".
     
  11. Al Bundy

    Al Bundy Chieftain

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    The devs need to improve the vanilla civs, especially the weakest, like Spain or France. Comparing to the new ones, they really suck big time.
     
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  12. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    Spain could use a boost to naval unit production for it to take advantage of Armadas easier, that or making it's naval units work like Sea Mandekalus to protect It's trade. France is probably getting more options with Eleanor, we'll see in one week.
     
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  13. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Except Spain historically had a serious problem protecting its treasure fleets. :p
     
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  14. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Read Deutschland im Zweiten Weltkrieg, the 'semi-official' history of Germany in the Second World War, Volume V on the economy. Germany certainly had a raw material problem, especially alloying metals and oil, but the two major problems were manpower and especially Trained manpower for industry, and their production methods. As early as 1941 they simply did not have enough workers for both industry and the military, especially when they formed over 200 divisions for the attack on the USSR, enlisting or drafting 8 million men, and then got stuck in a long war so those men could not be returned to industry as they had planned. Making this problem worse was the structure of German manufacturing, which relied on generalized machine tools and experienced machinists who, using the proper jigs and templates, could use those tools to make almost anything. That made German factories very good at reacting to changes, like modifications of aircraft and tank models, but woefully inefficient at sheer volume production compared to the 'American System' of very specialized machine tools each doing only one thing, but attached to a moving production line so that they did the same thing for dozens or hundreds of products a day. Since major Soviet factories used the same system (several of their largest tank tractor factories were, in fact, designed and built by American engineers) the efficiency of production was all on the side of the democracies and the USSR.
    Making it all worse was German engineering of military equipment, which made every effort to get the most powerful weapons and no effort at all to manufacture weapons that were reliable. The average German tank unit had about 2 out of 3 tanks working on any given day; regardless of enemy action 1 tank was always under repair out of 3. Any American Army tank battalion with that kind of maintenance efficiency would have resulted in the battalion commander and his motor (maintenance) officer getting relieved or court-martialed. Put another way, the Germans managed to manufacture 1802 Tiger or Tiger II heavy tanks during the war, and famously it was considered that it took 5 Allied tanks to successfully knock out a Tiger. But since only about 1200 of those tanks was actually combat ready at any moment, it only took 6000 Allied tanks to center all the Tigers, or less than 2 months' combined production from the USA and USSR.
    It was no contest, especially since by the time they were manufacturing the Tiger II in 1944, Germany was running out of supplies of Molybdenum and Chromium (normally imported through Portugal, but the Allies had cut off the supply) - and those two alloy metals are required to manufacture good armor plate - when the Red Army tested a captured King Tiger (Tiger II), they found that its armor plate was noticeably inferior to armor manufactured just a year earlier.
    Downward spiral, here they come. . .
    A considerable percentage of the 'Spanish Armada' in fact, was Portugeuse, because Spanish-only shipbuilding and manning simply wasn't sufficient to produce such a fleet on their own.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  15. Al Bundy

    Al Bundy Chieftain

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    If you are refering to piracy in general, it was a problem but not as harmful as English Historians often repeat. Recent studies (Martínez Laínez and others) have counted 107 ships sunk by pirates between 1540-1650 from more than 11.000 ships that made the American voyage (that's only 1%).
    If you are refering to the Treasure Fleet (Flota de Indias), it was only captured three times in more than 250 years. The first time in 1628 by Dutch privateer Piet Heyn (more than a century after the sailing of the first Treasure Fleet).

    So, I think they did a pretty good job defending fleets.
     
  16. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Well, either way, Phoenicia got the Sea Mandekula, so... :p
     
  17. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Phoenicia just became the anti-piracy Civ instead.
     
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  18. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

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    Yes, adding to that, it seems to me piraters/corsairs made heavier damage and bounty by raiding coastal settlements… if they preferred that option, traders should actually be quite well-defended.


    Quite dissapointed about that, true, but if they already duplicated the ability, ¿why not make it three times?. (Spain will be different in that they don't need an specific unit to do that, just a fleet or armada).
    Then, just give them a malus so their armadas take three times the damage from storms :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  19. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    There's also a difference in perspective. Each pirated ship was a huge boon to the pirates/their country, but only a modest loss to the Spanish crown in the context of their total haul from the New World.


    Trading ships and caravans were both typically well armed, with the amount of investment in defence being an economic assessment of the likely risks to be encountered along the way. Presumably the events that result in the loss of a trader in game represent higher levels of danger than the trader is equipped to deal with.
     
  20. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    So now there are 10 confirmed unique units, instead of the stated 9 from the press release. Further evidence that Firaxis' marketing folks can't count, and that any analysis based the unit/building/etc. numbers in the press release is worthless. :(

    Supposedly there are still 3 non-unique units unaccounted for, but we can't even depend on that...
     
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