[GS] Gathering Storm Screenshots Discussion Thread

LOL Hilarious that Fascism still reduces war weariness. The real fascist countries were hit horribly by war weariness, especially in Europe.

They were also horribly inefficient at military production, too, compared to their democratic and communist opponents. So that bonus is also a combination of game play effect / imagined history.

The +5 strength per unit I agree with. Only 50% of the normal penalty for being damaged would also make sense. And maybe a loyalty bonus to cities from nearby friendly military units.

re Democracy, would have been nice to see a bonus to Population based culture.

They are all quite "imagined" history. I mean, first of all, they are ideologies, not governments. Fascism, communism or liberalism would have to be treated like 'modern' religions to capture their actual meaning. Facist and communist countries were mostly dictatorships or oligarchies, a few of them also republics. Democratic countries are, most of the time, republics.
 
Likewise. Maybe they wanted to make Neighborhoods relevant again? The last Democracy update kind of made them completely pointless...

Yeah, Democracy was WAY too OP. Basically you didn't have to build any more neighborhoods, and the production bonus was HUGE. My go-to strategy was to get democracy, get the legacy card and then add it for double bonus.
 
Yeah, Democracy was WAY too OP. Basically you didn't have to build any more neighborhoods, and the production bonus was HUGE. My go-to strategy was to get democracy, get the legacy card and then add it for double bonus.
Yeah, it was insanely good. Probably should have figured the devs would catch on to that at some point. :D
 
Democracy should be nerfed by having one of its wild card slots be replaced with either an economic policy slot or a diplomatic policy slot.

After all, Communism only has one wild card slot.
 
Democracy should be nerfed by having one of its wild card slots be replaced with either an economic policy slot or a diplomatic policy slot.

After all, Communism only has one wild card slot.
I don't think it's Democracy's card allotments that need balancing. It's just that insane housing and production bonus. The bonus wild card makes sense IMO.
 
I mean, first of all, they are ideologies, not governments.

They were truly ideologies in Civ 5, with huge impact on how other leaders viewed you, and a well fleshed out set of possible government bonuses customized to each.

In Civ 6, they're portrayed as governments with two special bonuses assigned to each, and then some differentiation related to card slots. With no material impact on the game other than their special bonuses, that just shines a little more light on those specials, I guess.
 
They were truly ideologies in Civ 5, with huge impact on how other leaders viewed you, and a well fleshed out set of possible government bonuses customized to each.

In Civ 6, they're portrayed as governments with two special bonuses assigned to each, and then some differentiation related to card slots. With no material impact on the game other than their special bonuses, that just shines a little more light on those specials, I guess.
Don't forget the Ideologue hidden agenda.
 
Don't forget the Ideologue hidden agenda.
It's very difficult to forget. :cringe: I just accept that any leader with that agenda will never be my friend... :sad:
 
The devs need to improve the vanilla civs, especially the weakest, like Spain or France. Comparing to the new ones, they really suck big time.
Spain could use a boost to naval unit production for it to take advantage of Armadas easier, that or making it's naval units work like Sea Mandekalus to protect It's trade. France is probably getting more options with Eleanor, we'll see in one week.
 
Spain could use a boost to naval unit production for it to take advantage of Armadas easier, that or making it's naval units work like Sea Mandekalus to protect It's trade.
Except Spain historically had a serious problem protecting its treasure fleets. :p
 
How much of that was due to lack of raw materials, or just having their factories bombed constantly? Other countries, even England didn't have to deal with that much bombing. I admit I don't know too much about the civilian side of Germany during the war. So I am curious what the problem was with their industry if not the above mentioned things.

Read Deutschland im Zweiten Weltkrieg, the 'semi-official' history of Germany in the Second World War, Volume V on the economy. Germany certainly had a raw material problem, especially alloying metals and oil, but the two major problems were manpower and especially Trained manpower for industry, and their production methods. As early as 1941 they simply did not have enough workers for both industry and the military, especially when they formed over 200 divisions for the attack on the USSR, enlisting or drafting 8 million men, and then got stuck in a long war so those men could not be returned to industry as they had planned. Making this problem worse was the structure of German manufacturing, which relied on generalized machine tools and experienced machinists who, using the proper jigs and templates, could use those tools to make almost anything. That made German factories very good at reacting to changes, like modifications of aircraft and tank models, but woefully inefficient at sheer volume production compared to the 'American System' of very specialized machine tools each doing only one thing, but attached to a moving production line so that they did the same thing for dozens or hundreds of products a day. Since major Soviet factories used the same system (several of their largest tank tractor factories were, in fact, designed and built by American engineers) the efficiency of production was all on the side of the democracies and the USSR.
Making it all worse was German engineering of military equipment, which made every effort to get the most powerful weapons and no effort at all to manufacture weapons that were reliable. The average German tank unit had about 2 out of 3 tanks working on any given day; regardless of enemy action 1 tank was always under repair out of 3. Any American Army tank battalion with that kind of maintenance efficiency would have resulted in the battalion commander and his motor (maintenance) officer getting relieved or court-martialed. Put another way, the Germans managed to manufacture 1802 Tiger or Tiger II heavy tanks during the war, and famously it was considered that it took 5 Allied tanks to successfully knock out a Tiger. But since only about 1200 of those tanks was actually combat ready at any moment, it only took 6000 Allied tanks to center all the Tigers, or less than 2 months' combined production from the USA and USSR.
It was no contest, especially since by the time they were manufacturing the Tiger II in 1944, Germany was running out of supplies of Molybdenum and Chromium (normally imported through Portugal, but the Allies had cut off the supply) - and those two alloy metals are required to manufacture good armor plate - when the Red Army tested a captured King Tiger (Tiger II), they found that its armor plate was noticeably inferior to armor manufactured just a year earlier.
Downward spiral, here they come. . .
Except Spain historically had a serious problem protecting its treasure fleets. :p

A considerable percentage of the 'Spanish Armada' in fact, was Portugeuse, because Spanish-only shipbuilding and manning simply wasn't sufficient to produce such a fleet on their own.
 
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Except Spain historically had a serious problem protecting its treasure fleets. :p

If you are refering to piracy in general, it was a problem but not as harmful as English Historians often repeat. Recent studies (Martínez Laínez and others) have counted 107 ships sunk by pirates between 1540-1650 from more than 11.000 ships that made the American voyage (that's only 1%).
If you are refering to the Treasure Fleet (Flota de Indias), it was only captured three times in more than 250 years. The first time in 1628 by Dutch privateer Piet Heyn (more than a century after the sailing of the first Treasure Fleet).

So, I think they did a pretty good job defending fleets.
 
Well, either way, Phoenicia got the Sea Mandekula, so... :p
 
If you are refering to piracy in general, it was a problem but not as harmful as English Historians often repeat. Recent studies (Martínez Laínez and others) have counted 107 ships sunk by pirates between 1540-1650 from more than 11.000 ships that made the American voyage (that's only 1%).
If you are refering to the Treasure Fleet (Flota de Indias), it was only captured three times in more than 250 years. The first time in 1628 by Dutch privateer Piet Heyn (more than a century after the sailing of the first Treasure Fleet).

So, I think they did a pretty good job defending fleets.

Yes, adding to that, it seems to me piraters/corsairs made heavier damage and bounty by raiding coastal settlements… if they preferred that option, traders should actually be quite well-defended.


Well, either way, Phoenicia got the Sea Mandekula, so... :p

Quite dissapointed about that, true, but if they already duplicated the ability, ¿why not make it three times?. (Spain will be different in that they don't need an specific unit to do that, just a fleet or armada).
Then, just give them a malus so their armadas take three times the damage from storms :p
 
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If you are refering to piracy in general, it was a problem but not as harmful as English Historians often repeat. Recent studies (Martínez Laínez and others) have counted 107 ships sunk by pirates between 1540-1650 from more than 11.000 ships that made the American voyage (that's only 1%).
If you are refering to the Treasure Fleet (Flota de Indias), it was only captured three times in more than 250 years. The first time in 1628 by Dutch privateer Piet Heyn (more than a century after the sailing of the first Treasure Fleet).

So, I think they did a pretty good job defending fleets.

There's also a difference in perspective. Each pirated ship was a huge boon to the pirates/their country, but only a modest loss to the Spanish crown in the context of their total haul from the New World.


Yes, adding to that, it seems to me piraters/corsairs made heavier damage and bounty by raiding coastal settlements… if they preferred that option, traders should actually be quite well-defended.

Trading ships and caravans were both typically well armed, with the amount of investment in defence being an economic assessment of the likely risks to be encountered along the way. Presumably the events that result in the loss of a trader in game represent higher levels of danger than the trader is equipped to deal with.
 
So now there are 10 confirmed unique units, instead of the stated 9 from the press release. Further evidence that Firaxis' marketing folks can't count, and that any analysis based the unit/building/etc. numbers in the press release is worthless. :(

Supposedly there are still 3 non-unique units unaccounted for, but we can't even depend on that...
 
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