[GS] Gathering Storm Unique Infrastructure Elimination Thread

[Bangau]

3. Australia - Outback Station [10]
8. Cree - Mekewap [9]
14. Germany - Hansa [27]
15. Greece - Acropolis [34]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [28]
24. Korea - Seowon [16]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [16]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [26]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35] (34+1) One of the most powerful ones out there. Always super useful.
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8] (11-3) In my experience this gives you less than the remaining other UI's. You get a great thing (science and culture), but you have to trade in a good thing (production, food and/or gold).

 

[Leucarum]

Voting slightly later than usual today...

3. Australia - Outback Station [10]
8. Cree - Mekewap [9]
14. Germany - Hansa [27]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35] (34+1) Hands down my favourite UD. This is a district you want as soon as practical to reap maximum benefit and Greece gets you there.
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25] (28-3) This is a vote based on enjoyment so its 100% subjective. Indonesia is one of the civs I expected I'd enjoy a lot more than I did and this improvement has just never felt that fun to play with (for me)
24. Korea - Seowon [16]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [16]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [26]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[lotrmith]

I don't know if it is an effect of endless Mekewap war here, but clearly not sincere judgment on power of this structure.
It comes crazy early, typically 2 or 3rd tech you take as Cree. From the very start it is better than mine (the same production, +housing, + possible food/gold. Mine gets added hammer on aprent., but mekewap get it too slightly after. The way map generator works, you are guaranteed to place some of them with a bonus from resources.
Placed on plain hill near 2 bonuses = 2 food, 3 hammer, 1 housing AT THE VERY IMPACTFUL BEGINING
on grass hill = 3 food, 2 hammers, 1 housing.
And possible gold.
All in the stage every hammer is priceless and growth is essential. First 50-100 defines if you win the game. And those yields are CRAZY at this stage and fairly consistent. Unavailable to noone else, who must put their hope on strong bonus tiles and map generator.
And somehow it loses with OS, TF, Kampung. Don't get me wrong, I am crazy in love with Kampung and Terrace farm, and if against any common sense mekewap don't get its second life as Seowon, I will hardly upvote the latter two.
BUT
Kampung vs Mekewap. Kampung is also very early, but benefits only from sea rosources and those resources must be IMPROVED. So a player is forced to spend more builder charge, and builder charges are extremely limited inancient/classical era. Mekewap benefits from unimproved resources too, both land and sea. Kampung to be competitive with Mekewap in the very very early game, requires classical golden age for builder faihbuying, but it is hard on higher difficulties. Also mid and lategame give lower yields than Mekawap
Mekewap vs terrace. No added production except very limited freshwater case. And probably later you will more often replace farms than mekewaps with other improvements
Mekewap vs OS. Mekewap gets anotherproduction and housing boost before OS is even unlocked! OS has no impact on the very crucial period of the game.

Let's unpack this. You're talking early game, first turns, Ancient Era. So early your population is relatively low, and both your availability of workers/charges and citizens to work tiles is at a premium. Builder charges extremely limited by your own admission.

I'm going to remove your hill production because, well, you're being deceptive by including it and then using it as an example of 5 yield of food+production being great. You're already operating on the presumption that the tile is adjacent to two bonus resources to get the +1 food which, by the way, is the only tangible benefit at this stage compared to a mine on that same hill (if you're pressed for housing at this stage of the game I question your settling choices).

So a Mekewap placed on flat land against 2 bonus resources will yield 4 total food+production. And you think that's a good tile. And you're right! But you say nobody else can do this, and there you're wrong. ANYONE can do this. You also claim everyone else would be dependant on bonus resources, which again is disingenuous, and hypocritical. Your Mekewap gets not one but two adjacent bonus resources. Why wouldn't anyone else get those same bonus resources?

Let's call it Stone. If you Quarry stone you get, you guessed it, 4 total food+production.

Let's call is Sheep. If you Pasture sheep you get, you guessed it, 4 total food+production.

Unimproved bananas get 4 total food+production. Unimproved Citrus or Sugar does the same.

This list could go on so I'm just going to skip ahead to Horses, which if Pastured give you 5 total food+production, *better than a Mekewap*.

Now we're going to consider the extremely out-on-a-limb early Mekewap that is adjacent to not only two bonus resources but also adjacent to a Luxury. We've already examined some luxuries that, unimproved, provide the same food+production as a Mekewap. So I ask this question. Where your Cree would build a Mekewap to net +0.5 housing over anyone else's improvements, anyone else when presented with two bonus resources *and a luxury* would simply improve those three resources and work those tiles... not just getting the same or perhaps better food+production but also adding the Luxury to their city at a time when Luxuries are a far more limiting factor on productivity than Housing (which by the way holds true for pretty much the entire game).

3. Australia - Outback Station [11] 10 + 1 OS porn exists. I also don't consider Guilds, a medieval civic (3rd of 9 eras) to be 'late'.
8. Cree - Mekewap [6] 9 - 3 Mekewap porn does not exist.
14. Germany - Hansa [27]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22] TF porn exists.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25] Kampung porn exists.
24. Korea - Seowon [16]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [16] Even Maori porn exists.
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [26]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[BenitoChavez]

3. Australia - Outback Station [11]
8. Cree - Mekewap [6]
14. Germany - Hansa [28] = 27 + 1. The large adjacency bonuses + the policy card to double adjacency bonuses + coal power plants = win.
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25]
24. Korea - Seowon [16]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [16]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23] = 26 - 3. A better version of the Sphinx or Château but with the same issues. The yields fall off quickly unless you build your cities around them.
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[Deadly Dog]

3. Australia - Outback Station [11]
8. Cree - Mekewap [7] = 6+1. Nice synergy with all other Cree bonuses. Usually save building them until the Claasical, after the best resources are all improved. Great for putting in hills next to fish or rice. Playing Cree I typically find I can grow my cities to support an extra district and I credit the mekewap with that.
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22] = 25-3. Balancing this against the meekwap, which I think is better. I played many a game thinking the kampung was going to be better than the mekewap, but it just doesn't pan out. I get way more production from mekewap despite their restrictions.
24. Korea - Seowon [16]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [16]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[Weraptor]

3. Australia - Outback Station [11]
8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [17] (16+1) Assured +4 science half-cost campus.
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13] (16-3) Not good enough on its own to continue further.
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[Kwami]

3. Australia - Outback Station [11]
8. Cree - Mekewap [4] = 7-3. Very much overrated. The placement is awkward and the rewards are rather limited in the early game.
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [18] 17+1. Boring, but stupidly overpowered. Just being a half-priced Campus is already incredibly powerful. Having a guaranteed 4 adjacency bonus *and extra Science on adjacent mines* is fantastic. No, your average bonus almost certainly isn't 4 with any other leader. Sure, one or two cities might get a +5 or a +6 because you got lucky with mountains and reefs or something, but that's not going to happen in all of your cities. With Korea, you get +4 in every city.
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[enKage]

I at the moment play a rather typical deity/large/epic Cree game. Relaxing one, not trying hard to do the very best. I vote slightly earlier, otherwise would not be able to attach files
So let s take a look.
I have only 5 pastures in my empire, so will not even compare Mekewap to Oustback Station, because it would be a joke in terms of cosistency.

Sosomewhen in renessaince are, some screenies, how consistent and spammable mekewap is:

Spoiler :

https://zapodaj.net/bf28fa95401b8.png.html
https://zapodaj.net/07525f5ec17bd.png.html

Sicerely, 3-4 per city, 1 benefits from 5 and still has 6 districts and place for more
And tis is needed for this (before communism!!) also note every of them grants 6 gold, not marked because it is a bonus for destination city. I put it to underline exceptional synergy with Favourable Terms unique ability of Poundmaker

Spoiler :

https://zapodaj.net/afa20a4a2fd5a.png.html

The biggest city in the world is this. The best known AI city I know (and I know a lot because I am Cree so shared visibility) is 14, only a few 12. Note gold and production in reneissaince

Spoiler :

https://zapodaj.net/c7bd89e986396.png.html

The second biggest city in the world is my 2nd expansion, build without fresh water. I can put early expansions with no freshwater, because I have mighty Mekewap. Note gold and prod, acyually 1 hill Mekewap was just hit by hiurricane

Spoiler :

https://zapodaj.net/4adda509da6fc.png.html

And to voting

3. Australia - Outback Station [8] 11-3 I like it, but because it comes later than anything left and has cosistency problems, should go now
8. Cree - Mekewap [5] 4+1 What is the most important yield in the game? production. What is the most important period of the game? First 50-100 turns. What is the only thing here combining the two? Mekewap. What civ except Inca can compete with Cree in terms of early production and growth? None, maybe sometimes Maori
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

EDIT:
images not working, replaced by simplelinks

I wish I could attach inital save, but the game doesn't save initial autosaves.

 

[Architect]

3. Australia - Outback Station [5] - (8 - 3) = 5 So much fake news about this improvement its not even funny...
8. Cree - Mekewap [6] - (5 + 1) = 6 Can't believe outback station might beat out this and Ziggurat.
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [22]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [35]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[monstercat]

3. Australia - Outback Station [5]
8. Cree - Mekewap [6]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [19] (22 - 3) It gives a ton of food, but with food you also need Housing, and this doesn't give very much Housing.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [36] (35 + 1) It is the best UI.
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[The Highwayman]

3. Australia - Outback Station [5]
8. Cree - Mekewap [6]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [16] [19-3] This is going to finish around the top ten - worthy considering the insta boost you can get making something from very little. But its time is coming.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [19] [18+1] A consistent +3/+4 campus from the moment its built is so strong. And half cost is borderline godlike.
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [36]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[KayAU]

3. Australia - Outback Station [2] (5 - 3) It's time to go. Good improvement in every way, but what's left on the list is better.
8. Cree - Mekewap [6]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [17] (16 + 1) No, this is top 3 material. Housing is neither as limited nor limiting as some of you seem to think. For one thing, Terrace Farms provide housing. For another, with the kind of massive food surplus a good Inca city has, you can generally power right through any housing limitations. Finally, your high population cities will have a lot of citizens working hill and mountain tiles, meaning they are also high production. Terrace Farms themselves also give production when adjacent to fresh water or an Aqueduct. This is beneficial in many ways, but it also means you can get your Granaries, Aqueducts and other housing sources up rather quickly. My last Inca game had my capital surpassing size 10 in the Ancient Era, and it never really slowed down as the game progressed. I'll attach the screenshot again to remind you all. ;-)
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [19]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [36]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

Spoiler :

 

[Disgustipated]

3. Australia - Outback Station [Eliminated] = 2 - 3 Haven't found them to be all that impactful in my games. It can improve crappy tiles, but that's not saying much.
8. Cree - Mekewap [6]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [17]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20] = 19 + 1 Far too powerful to be less than 20 at this point. I haven't found placement to really interfere with my other districts, hasn't been an issue.
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [36]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [8]

 

[bengalryan9]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7] (6+1) I can put my early citizens on food tiles, production tiles, or gold tiles... or I can have them get all three from one of these while at the same time ignoring a granary in order to put my production elsewhere. You will pretty much always benefit from these as the Cree.
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [17]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [36]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [5] (8-3) I don't know. The early science is nice, but it's going to slow down my production of a campus to take advantage of it. "Well this means you can put off building a campus", some will say, but I want those great scientists points. The culture is nice, if you have rivers nearby (no guarantee), and even then I usually have other stuff I'd rather use those river tiles for.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [17]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [37] (36+1) It's a half-price district that comes earlier than any other. Synergizes well with Russia's civ ability and the Dance of the Aurora pantheon. The strongest unique for religious victory, and taking advantage of a monumentality golden age. You'll get most of the GWAMs, and even if you don't use all of them, you're denying your competition from the culture/tourism bonuses. An absolute monster.
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [2](5-3) The competition is quite fierce at this stage in the game. It doesn't scale well, and while science is nice, food/housing/gold type improvements are better.

 

[Krajzen]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [17]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [24]
27. Maori - Marae [13]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [37+1=38]
42. Sumeria - Ziggurat [2-3=eliminated]

Yeah I have upvoted Ziggurat before but now it is time for it to die, scaled too badly into late game.

Lavra - free religion please, with a ton of additional great person points.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [17]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [25]=24+1 I love trade routes, unique harbors and hubs are always welcome to me
27. Maori - Marae [10]=13-3 I don't think this building is that strong after the nerf to culture and faith.
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [23]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [37]

 

[Datgingah]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [14] (17-3) Extra food without the housing to justify it isn't that useful as I've said before. And growing past your limit just makes it so you get 25% of the extra food yields or less, at which point you are literally hurting yourself by working these tiles. Vote against because people see big numbers and play worse in spite of themselves.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [25]
27. Maori - Marae [10]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [24] (23+1) Extra culture is always good in the early game and so is gold. While it does become weaker in the midgame, the lategame sees it becoming strong again by buffing national parks and seaside resorts tourism output with its 2 added appeal, a very favorable amount, and on top of that the 2 culture (potentially more) each one gets also becomes tourism. A middling middle game is acceptable to me if the early and late game is this good.
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [37]

 

[aguliondew]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [28]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [14]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [26] 25+1 With Mali leadership bonus it double the value of gold making gold almost comparable to production.
27. Maori - Marae [10]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [24]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [21] 24-3 Kind of surprised how many districts made it to the end. This is the weakest district left.
38. Russia - Lavra [37]

 

[Lily_Lancer]

8. Cree - Mekewap [7]
14. Germany - Hansa [25=28-3] Weak as it is, why does it have so many points?
15. Greece - Acropolis [35]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [14]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [22]
24. Korea - Seowon [21=20+1] Clearly much better than Hansa.
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
27. Maori - Marae [10]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [24]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [21]
38. Russia - Lavra [37]