[GS] Gathering Storm Unique Infrastructure Elimination Thread

[The Highwayman]

14. Germany - Hansa [21]
15. Greece - Acropolis [36]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [8] [11-3] Decent at the start, but campuses and mines are the preferred infrastructure as the game progresses. Excessive food has diminishing returns.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [24]
24. Korea - [18] [17+1] Mountains and geos aren’t everywhere. Neither are reefs. The map can still screw you. I’ll take the guarantee and half cost.
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [24]
38. Russia - Lavra [30]

 

[BenitoChavez]

14. Germany - Hansa [21]
15. Greece - Acropolis [36]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [8]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25] = 24 + 1. I think this is top 3 material. It turns bad tiles you can't normally put improvements on, into good tiles.
24. Korea - [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [21] = 24 - 3. It can take a while to set up the Cothon, Gov Plaza, Ancestral Hall Combo and pump out those settlers. Depending on the game that can limit settling spots.
38. Russia - Lavra [30]

 

[Francel]

14. Germany - Hansa [21]
15. Greece - Acropolis [36]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [9] (8+1) these can provide ample food when you start in areas otherwise lacking in high food yields; I think having the ability to use hills for high food output or production provides flexibility, and the yields can be outright high especially early game
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25]
24. Korea - [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [18] (21-3) by the time I finish my first harbors, I usually have most of the settlers I want, or have enough money to purchase them
38. Russia - Lavra [30]

 

[Datgingah]

14. Germany - Hansa [21]
15. Greece - Acropolis [36]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [9]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25]
24. Korea - [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [15] (18-3) As said above, its settler bonus just doesn't time well with when you would want that in a game.
38. Russia - Lavra [31] (30+1) EZ PZ Culture and Religious games

Going to take a break from voting down terrace farm as I don't think its in the spirit of the thread, but still the correct choice

 

[Icicle]

14. Germany - Hansa [21]
15. Greece - Acropolis [37] (36+1) I haven't upvoted this yet, which is an oversight.
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [6] (9-3) It's very good, this is mostly a playstyle preference vote as I'm not that enamored with huge cities.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [25]
24. Korea - [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [15]
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

 

[civviefan]

14. Germany - Hansa [21]
15. Greece - Acropolis [37]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [3] down
I love these beasties. Played two games with Inca, the first one was full of mountains, hills and volcanoes. The farms were amazing early game but then i found myself replacing them with districts. The second game gave me one mountain tile. Crickets.

20. Indonesia - Kampung [26] up
On the other hand these are always amazing. Making indonesia one of the best civs in watery maps.

24. Korea - [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [15]
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

 

[kaspergm]

14. Germany - Hansa [22] (21+1) While not the best anymore, still among my top 5, so giving this an upvote.
15. Greece - Acropolis [37]
18. Inca - Terrace Farm [0] (3-3) Eliminated Potentially great, potentially very little value depending on map. Also I find the negative synergy with Machu Pichu wonder is somewhat of a disappointment.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [26]
24. Korea - [18]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [15]
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

 

[Disgustipated]

14. Germany - Hansa [19] = 22 - 3 People voted down Korea because there are new ways to get adjacency for campuses, but there are also new ways to get adjacency for industrial zones. I'm just pointing out this inconsistency. I'm not agreeing with that logic, just pointing it out. Regardless, it does take a long time to set up Hansa and Commercial Hub clumps. It forces you to build 2 districts (where as Korea you only need 1) in multiple cities. Very time consuming, Mali suffers a similar problem and will be getting a downvote soon from me. It eventually pays off, but it takes a very long time to pay off.
15. Greece - Acropolis [37]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [26]
24. Korea - [19] = 18 + 1 Pay off is very early in the game and lasts all game long.
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [15]
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

 

[aguliondew]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [37]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [26]
24. Korea - Seowon [20] 19+1 Its work great when you have alot of farms/mines near it.
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21] surprise this tile improvement made it so far even thought others work better than it. Kind of thought the tile improvements would be ranked higher.since their bonuses can be applied to multiple tiles.
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [12] 15-3 weakest district left. The settle bonus happen to late for it to be useful to me.
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

 

[Krajzen]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [37]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [26+1=27]
24. Korea - Seowon [20]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [12-3=9]
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

Kampung - singlegandedly turns a lot of bad tiles into a lot of good tiles.

Cothon - it is really good thing but the least powerful left here, if only because it is built only in some cities.

 

[Leucarum]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [37]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [21] (20+1) Something this consistent shouldn't be this low.
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [6] (9-3) Most pretty model in the game and fun to play with but ultimately still a harbour.
38. Russia - Lavra [31]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [31] (34-3) Top 3, absolutely. Not sure if it's better than the lavra or Kampung though. It's limited to hills, so you may not be able to get them in every city, and even so, the adjacency bonuses for theater squares are so hard to get. Every other district will give higher respective adjacency. The free city state envoys are nice, but now overshadowed by Hungary's "buy envoys with gold" civ Ability.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [21]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [21]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [6]
38. Russia - Lavra [32] (31+1) I don't think there's any other Infrastructure in this game that has been calling for as many nerfs from the community as this one. And rightly so, it's so overpowered. It makes religious and cultural victory a breeze, and the amount of faith you can generate with this can easily be used for monumentality golden ages, buying huge armies with grandmaster's chapel, or cultural/scientific buildings with Jesuit education. The lavra is the cornerstone of so many different strategies.

 

[lotrmith]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [31]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [22] 21 + 1 For me this is the most consistent and provides the most important focus in the game.
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [18] 21 - 3 This should have gone before Terrace Farm. Nothing gets your empire up and running faster than TF, and you're not forced to spam them. These don't get as much bang for your buck that early even if they come back in value at the very end.
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [6]
38. Russia - Lavra [32]

 

[The Highwayman]

Acropolis should be at 34, not 31. Did a post get removed?

Moderator Action: Kmart_Elvis mistakenly dropped Acropolis from 34 to 31, instead of 37 to 34, so it should now be 34 -- Browd

 

[Weraptor]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [34]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [22]
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [15] (18-3) Time for this to go.
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [7] (6+1) Probably better than the Suguba imho.
38. Russia - Lavra [32]

 

[Ziad]

I'll correct the vote totals!

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [34]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [19] (22 - 3)
26. Mali - Suguba [26]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [15]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [8] (7 + 1)
38. Russia - Lavra [32][

Cothon: Well this dropped suddenly but I expected it. Reading the comments, it's pretty evident that this district is being exploited properly by players but that's the inevitable problem with things with indirect bonuses.

There are two natural predispositions at play here that should be shaken off to play Phoenicia:

1) To not build something til it's cheaper. No you can and should build a settler or two before you actually build the Cothon. Do you not build settlers before Colonization either?
2) To just stack bonuses til kingdom come so naturally people think you should only build Settlers in a city with every %settler production bonus possible. This doesn't leverage the ability at all. You shouldn't even be building Settlers in your capital (presumably that's where your Ancestral Hall is) after the first few.

The 50% bonus should be taken as Ancestral Hall being in EVERY city. That's the real power. And it persists until way after other civs have dropped Colonization (and even if they do, you still build and move settlers faster).
While other civs can't settle anymore due to rising opportunity costs in both production and loyalty, Phoenicia can continue spreading. If you play a map that doesn't allow this (like Pangaea) or with a higher # of civs than the default, then this will not be as strong. But one can argue the same about any other entry in this list if you engineer the map.

Seowon: Meanwhile this is still hanging on. This district does little for city development, you don't build it until you actually have the infrastructure to do so, and all its bonuses come at significant opportunity cost. That was fine when +4 was hard to achieve but now that it's way easier, getting an average of +1 science increase per city is sad.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [34]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [16] (19 - 3) Concentrating on tech early with these is tantamount to sprinting a marathon. You will be ahead for only a short time and you won't be able to afford to build much of what you researched a few turns ahead of just about any of the other Civs. The adjacency bonuses to mines and farms are almost trivial. Early culture, faith and food drive the most successful games. For early science you do not need much to have enough and a promoted Pingala in a tall capital will replace 2 or 3 Campuses or Seowon.
26. Mali - Suguba 27[26+1] S single Suguba will allow a Mali player to funnel all unit builds through one city at a discount while. No other singly built district affects the entire civilization as the Seguba. It's still not as good as the Lavra, but it still deserves some more love than it has been getting.
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [15]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [8]
38. Russia - Lavra [32]

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [34]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [13]=16-3 This should have left a long time ago
26. Mali - Suguba [27]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [15]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [9]=8+1 In a game where going as wide as possible is the strongest strat and the one infrastructure piece allowing that is considered to be weak cuz it involves too many steps. So I guess people cannot use the Cothon effectively because it does not grant Settlers immediately when you put it down like the Seowon's bonus?
38. Russia - Lavra [32]

 

[Kwami]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [34]
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [14] (13+1)
26. Mali - Suguba [27]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [15]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [6] (9-3)
38. Russia - Lavra [32]

Having a promoted Pingala in the capital is nonsense. You want Magnus in most games so that you can produce Settlers without losing population and so that you can chop out early infrastructure. Like, for example, early Seowons. Getting an early lead on science basically guarantees a win. Since the Seowon is half cost, the opportunity cost of building it early is much lower than it would be for a normal Campus. Besides all of that, you can get a Seowon much earlier than you can get a 2-promotion Pingala. Anyway, if you have Pingala in the capital, then it's not going to be tall early unless you get incredibly lucky with the map. You're looking at maybe +3 or +4 Science from Pingala, which is about one Seowon, but then you have no Magnus anywhere. And, of course, a second Seowon in your second city already beats Pingala.

As for the Cothon, it's not an Ancestral Hall in every city. It's not even an Ancestral Hall in a single city. The opportunity cost for the Cothon is significant, too. It's in the Classical Era on a leaf tech that's nowhere near the early game techs that you need (e.g. Archery, Bronze Working, luxury improvements). Even if you take time to build it, you still don't really have an Ancestral Hall because you don't get the free builders in the new cities. You certainly don't have Ancestral Hall in every city unless you build a Cothon in every city, which you probably can't and shouldn't do.

 

[bengalryan9]

14. Germany - Hansa [19]
15. Greece - Acropolis [35] (34+1) @Kmart_Elvis you are correct that Theater Square adjacency is the hardest to get, which is yet another reason these are so easy to love. Settle your cities right next to a hill and it's an easy +2 (or more) every time. That alone would be pretty good, but it's also half price and gives you a free envoy.
20. Indonesia - Kampung [27]
24. Korea - Seowon [11] (14-3) I just started a Korea game and while that +4 is really nice there ARE maluses here that need to be considered. First off, if you want that +4 you can't build it next to the city center, and that can be rough in the early game (as you'll have to spend gold to buy tiles or wait before building them). The fact that you can't put other districts nearby needs to be considered and planned around. Even the fact that it needs to be put on a hill can delay building them in the early game as you either wait for your city to finally claim the hill you want or spend the gold (which in the first two ages isn't always easy to come by IMO). Greece has the same issue in that the Acropolis needs to be built on hills, but Greece always seems to get a ton of hills and theater squares naturally are available later anyways. I'd take the Acropolis, Kampung, Suguba, and Lavra over the Seowon for sure.
26. Mali - Suguba [27]
34. Persia - Pairidaeza [15]
35. Phoenicia - Cothon [6] (9-3)
38. Russia - Lavra [32]