Gauntlet Suggestions

[Ozbenno]

Haven't had an OCC for a while so might just steal one of those for next time.

 

[Hsinchu]

Immortal.
Always Peace.
Raging Barbarians
Terra Map
Epic Play Speed
Domination Victory (all turned on)

Fastest finish wins.

 

[Ozbenno]

Always Peace is not a valid HOF option (the AI doesn't get it and keeps building masses of units). There have been SG games based on this (cultural domination and conquest games with Always Peace)

 

[Hsinchu]

Oh! The idiot AI from Sulla's game... but the vic condition is domination... based on colonization and cultural victory has to be avoided. Is that just the HOF auto dq for AP that makes it a bad idea? Cuz I think even with AP turned off, it would be a fun game if one could somehow ensure that the Old World was less than <65% total land area.

 

[Ozbenno]

Actually the first game was munterpipe's, Sullla just liked the idea and did his own game (as did ruff_hi).

With AP turned of, as it has to be, it is just a straight domination game, declare war and take over the world, we can't put non-game defined conditions on a gauntlet (ie must win domination but can't declare war).

 

[Hsinchu]

Well, what I was countersuggesting was that we adjust the game where you CAN Declare War, but I was wondering if there was someone with more knowledge who might know if there is a way to ensure map conditions that could deny a domination win without colonization. With conquest vic turned on but not the desired condition, assassinating all known rivals would be suicidal.

AP just made it harder because you have to self-deny cultural, space deny, and tech deny. With barbs, it means colonization will take marginally longer.

If its not possible, its not possible. But maybe a start?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Well, what I was countersuggesting was that we adjust the game where you CAN Declare War, but I was wondering if there was someone with more knowledge who might know if there is a way to ensure map conditions that could deny a domination win without colonization. With conquest vic turned on but not the desired condition, assassinating all known rivals would be suicidal.

AP just made it harder because you have to self-deny cultural, space deny, and tech deny. With barbs, it means colonization will take marginally longer.

If its not possible, its not possible. But maybe a start?

To make domination harder on a Terra Map, try options:

No Vassals (to avoid gaining 1/2 Domination "points" for each Vassal; may also prevent Colonies, but not sure)
Minimum No. of Opponents (to maximize the Domination % required for a Win)
Small Map (to maximize the Domination % required for a Win; Standard Map might also work, but ... maybe not)
Aggressive AI

To be sure Domination can't be done on the Old World area alone, Domination % should probably be at least 68%, but possibly higher.

Opponents might be chosen to be a mix of the meanest AI Leaders with the Aggressive trait and an equal number of extremely fast AI researchers, so the strategy can't simply be out-Tech the AI and conquer with vastly Tech advanced units.

Speed: The most interesting speed would be Quick which is the most difficult (currently) to Win. Normal speed would also be a challenge. Epic speed would be too close to Marathon, but still much more challenging than Marathon. I would not even bother with Marathon speed (strategies for winning Domination at Marathon speed are fairly well defined and fairly easy to adapt to new starting conditions).

Barbarians: They are like gnats or mosquitoes, bothersome, but hardly effect strategy; Raging Barbarians would be a good addition, but ... Both Barbarians and Raging Barbarians are easily nullified by building/capturing The Great Wall. So, why bother with Barbarians at all?

Difficulty Level: Deity. The extra Settler over Immortal and other additional handicaps would make it an entirely different Game. Caveat: I have an extremely high bias for Deity over any other Difficulty Level. However, if we want a high difficulty like Immortal, why not go all the way ... to Deity?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[silentounce]

Map: Archipelago
Size: Huge
Speed: Quick
Leader: Cannot start with Fishing
Options: None
Difficulty: ?
Victory Type: Conquest
Opponents: Hannibal, Willem van Oranje, Victoria, Tokugawa, Joao II, Ragnar, and four others.

First you have to find them, then you have to eliminate them, all while the clock is ticking.


I tried to pick for opponents the leaders/civs that were more geared to archipelago/water maps. If anyone can suggest four more, that would be great. No one else seemed to stand out. Not only does it make it more difficult for the player, it also keeps the player from picking them.

The map type and size pretty much eliminates the early rush tactic as well.

I chose quick to counteract the map size. I figure that people that don't want to play such a huge map might be persuaded if it's a quick game. It might also instill a sense of urgency in players.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Mehmet (cheap LH and cheap harbors) and Roosevelt (cheapest great lighthouse) perform well in archipelago... they may be worthy opponents

edit: Toku?

 

[silentounce]

Mehmet (cheap LH and cheap harbors) and Roosevelt (cheapest great lighthouse) perform well in archipelago... they may be worthy opponents

edit: Toku?

Japan, island nation, you know? I couldn't resist. That and I figured protective plus shale plants might be a help considering conquest is required and coal may be scarce on the map.

 

[kcd_swede]

Map: Archipelago
Size: Huge
Speed: Quick
Leader: Cannot start with Fishing
Options: None
Difficulty: ?
Victory Type: Conquest
Opponents: Hannibal, Willem van Oranje, Victoria, Tokugawa, Joao II, Ragnar, and four others.

First you have to find them, then you have to eliminate them, all while the clock is ticking.


I tried to pick for opponents the leaders/civs that were more geared to archipelago/water maps. If anyone can suggest four more, that would be great. No one else seemed to stand out. Not only does it make it more difficult for the player, it also keeps the player from picking them.

The map type and size pretty much eliminates the early rush tactic as well.

I chose quick to counteract the map size. I figure that people that don't want to play such a huge map might be persuaded if it's a quick game. It might also instill a sense of urgency in players.

Actually, Quick/Huge is a rather insane combination. Rather than counter-acting the map size, the Quick setting virtually GUARANTEES that this conquest will go well into the modern age and fought with hundreds (thousands?) of units.
That, my friend, is not a quick game, despite the Quick setting.

Play it on Marathon speed, and it will be over a lot faster in real time, I promise. A LOT faster. A relly really really LOT faster.

 

[silentounce]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've never played on quick before so my idea was based on assumptions. Whatever works best!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Actually, Quick/Huge is a rather insane combination. Rather than counter-acting the map size, the Quick setting virtually GUARANTEES that this conquest will go well into the modern age and fought with hundreds (thousands?) of units.
That, my friend, is not a quick game, despite the Quick setting.

Play it on Marathon speed, and it will be over a lot faster in real time, I promise. A LOT faster. A relly really really LOT faster.

Maybe so, but ... Marathon is so boring! Quick speed Conquest (or Domination) requires a Research Race to unlock a later period military unit like Cavalry or Red Coats, etc.

With Marathon, just pick Gilgamesh for his Vultures, but be prepared to research at least Construction for Catapults and maybe Machinery/Civil Service for Macemen. This is especially advisable for Large or Huge maps.

BTW, Difficulty is Deity, right? If not, I wouldn't bother to play. (BtS isn't really challenging unless one plays Deity level games.)

Regarding map size, Rusten has a nice Quick Deity Large Conquest Ancient start win in the HOF tables: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=17699

To make it somewhat easier, I'd recommend a Standard or even a Small map.

I'm assuming an Ancient start. A Modern or Future start would be trivial to Win at Deity level and at any speed.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[ianw1610]

How about this nice cute fluffy combination...

- Cultural Victory
- Emperor Difficulty
- Epic Speed
- Small Map
- Pangaea
- Ancient Start
- Must Play as Mehmed II
- Opponents must be Alexander, Boudicca, Genghis Khan, Montezuma, Napoleon, Shaka Zulu & Tokugawa
- All of the following must be checked - Aggressive AI, Raging Barbs, No Vassal States, No City Razing, No Tribal Villages
- None of the following must be checked - Permanent Alliances, Random Personalities, Choose Religions, No Random Events

I already hold the HOF #1 for Cultural / Emperor / Epic / Small although I must confess I didn't use several of the optional settings detailed above !!!!!!!!!!!!

Why Mehmed II? Because I think his traits are the WORST suited to a game where warring and culture will be the objectives.

Why the opponents? Obviously they are warmongers, but I intentionally left out anyone with a favourite civic that appears early (Kublai, Ragnar, Brennus, Suryav, etc) - so EVEN MORE challenging to get good relations with them. Aggressive AI won't help with relations either! Random Personalities disallowed as that would defeat the object.

Small map with max opponents, so a big scrap for land, with Raging Barbs thrown into the mix to disrupt things.

No Vassals as that would be an easy way out.

Choose Religions turned off, so that if you are, lets say, first to Monotheism, and have Marble but not Stone, you can't simply pick a religion that requires Marble for double production speed of its church!!!

Easy, right?!!

 

[silentounce]

How about the same thing, but with a UN victory required?

 

[ianw1610]

How about the same thing, but with a UN victory required?

That is certainly feasible... although a UN victory against warmongers has appeared in 2 recent Gauntlets - G-Major 59 (September 2009) and G-Major 47 (March 2009). The most recent occasions a Cultural Victory against warmongers was required in a Gauntlet were G-Major 36 (September 2008) and G-Major 24 (March 2008), so that setup should be due for a reappearance......

 

[silentounce]

Don't mind me, I'm new here. I'm playing my first gauntlets this month.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

How about this nice cute fluffy combination...

- Cultural Victory
- Emperor Difficulty
- Epic Speed
- Small Map
- Pangaea
- Ancient Start
- Must Play as Mehmed II
- Opponents must be Alexander, Boudicca, Genghis Khan, Montezuma, Napoleon, Shaka Zulu & Tokugawa
- All of the following must be checked - Aggressive AI, Raging Barbs, No Vassal States, No City Razing, No Tribal Villages
- None of the following must be checked - Permanent Alliances, Random Personalities, Choose Religions, No Random Events

I already hold the HOF #1 for Cultural / Emperor / Epic / Small although I must confess I didn't use several of the optional settings detailed above !!!!!!!!!!!!

Why Mehmed II? Because I think his traits are the WORST suited to a game where warring and culture will be the objectives.

Why the opponents? Obviously they are warmongers, but I intentionally left out anyone with a favourite civic that appears early (Kublai, Ragnar, Brennus, Suryav, etc) - so EVEN MORE challenging to get good relations with them. Aggressive AI won't help with relations either! Random Personalities disallowed as that would defeat the object.

Small map with max opponents, so a big scrap for land, with Raging Barbs thrown into the mix to disrupt things.

No Vassals as that would be an easy way out.

Choose Religions turned off, so that if you are, lets say, first to Monotheism, and have Marble but not Stone, you can't simply pick a religion that requires Marble for double production speed of its church!!!

Easy, right?!!

Just one minor suggestion to enhance the challenge of this Gauntlet: Emperor -> Deity

Seriously, this is too easy. There are no AIs with a challenging Technology rate, thus any chance of Winning (via Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory, Cultural Victory, Diplomatic Victory or Space Colony Victory). Too many Warmonger Opponents will make any serious attempt by them to Win quite impossible; they will all focus on building military uinits and neglect Research; their obsolete military units will quickly become a useless drag on their Economy.

Strategy: Beeline Archery, build enough Archers to discourage DoWs, build The Great Wall, settle on Hills and build Walls, then Research like crazy, build The Sistine Chapel, Hermitage, Cathedrals, Great Artists, maybe Castles, Win Liberalism, take Nationalism, adopt Free Speech, research Printing Press, set Culture to 100% or nearly so.

It shouldn't be that difficult at Emperor level. Aggressive AI in BtS simply means the AI builds a few more units and may as a result DoW a bit more; it has no direct effect on Diplomacy unlike Aggressive AI in Warlords/Vanilla.

Perhaps changing the difficulty to Deity level would make it challenging enough?

Am I missing something?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ozbenno]

Perhaps changing the difficulty to Deity level would make it challenging enough?

Am I missing something?

The fact that most people wouldn't attempt it at Deity

I know I could never win this at Deity so wouldn't bother. I'm marginal to be able to win it at Emporer. It is not so much that the AI can win but that the human can lose by being dogpiled.

 

[Infantry#14]

my problem w/ deity is that the ai gets 2 settlers in the beginning. I often get boxed in pretty early. Also, my computer can only handle small maps, and it takes forever to play a single turn in the modern era.