Gauntlet Suggestions

[hr_oskar]

Meh, I tried out the settings above and the AI didn't feel all that aggressive actually. I mostly noticed they were more open to war bribes... which would make the game easier if anything. Raging barbs can be a bit shocking when you're not used to it, but it's fairly predictable: Once you've weathered the 3000 BC - 2000 BC zombie onslaught, it's mostly over.

So I think you really have to have always war on for a different type of cultural game.

I then tried out an industrial start, always war. It seems alright, but really I think an ancient start would be so much more fun. Industrial starts are awkward in that it takes so long to actually start teching something and with always war on, even more so. An ancient start forces you to consider which religions you're going for (as the AI religions will never spread to you) while having to make sure you have a fit enough army to defend your land.

So how about this:

Victory: Cultural
Difficulty: Immortal
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Pangaea
Civ: Sitting Bull / Native America
Opponents: Montezuma, Shaka, Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, Genghis Khan.
Required: Always war, Raging barbarians

 

[Ozbenno]

Thanks for the suggestion, looks good. Weirdly I already had another suggestion about Immortal Always War that we're going with this update. Will keep this in mind though.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Starting Era: Any
• Map Size: Large (Edit: Standard has been withdrawn; Large reinstated)
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Normal
• Civ: Ethopia (Zara Yaqob)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003

No options restrictions (such as Must not check No Barbarians or No Tribal Villages or must check No Vassals).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Manco Capac]

Deity of course.
Ok.

 

[WastinTime]

The only thing I don't like about your suggestion is that it attacks the only slot that shakabrade has in the Deity table, and he's only had it for a couple months. How about a different size or difficulty?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The only thing I don't like about your suggestion is that it attacks the only slot that shakabrade has in the Deity table, and he's only had it for a couple months. How about a different size or difficulty?

Just to be clear, I wasn't aware that Shakabrade's only Diety #1 game was in this particular HoF table. Although I sympathize, I don't think its a particularly good reason to avoid a HoF when selecting a gauntlet.

I guess we agree that Normal speed is a good one to use for the Zara Yaqob and Domination Vicotory gauntlet.

Small might work, but a gauntlet has already been played on the Diety Normal Small HoF table. Its a good gauntlet selection convention to avoid tables where a gauntlet has already been played in the past.

Deity Normal Large is a HoF table that really could use a gaunlet; currently there is only a single Future Era game in this table. Given that the Era is Any, a Large map should still allow for many successful games, nearly all of which will beat the current #1 game of Jul 2043 AD.

I'm Ok with a change to a Large map. I'll change my original post to reflect this change.

BTW, I will not compromise on difficulty level; it must be Deity level or I will almost certainly not play in it.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shulec]

I think the set up looks great for a standard sized map. I don't have a chance at large based on increased difficulty compared to standard for a deity war game and cpu issues with larger maps.

There have been participation problems in the past for games larger than standard.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I think the set up looks great for a standard sized map. I don't have a chance at large based on increased difficulty compared to standard for a deity war game and cpu issues with larger maps.

There have been participation problems in the past for games larger than standard.

Would Deity Quick Small work to everyone's satifaction? With Quick speed the military campaigns will become more difficult, but this should be mitigated by the Small map where one could choose as few as four opponents. Plus any Era can be used (Ancient through Renaissance Eras primarily; the Industrial Era may be too late to use the Oromo Warrior; not sure how late the Stele is available though), so that should ensure that most players can at least score a nice Diety win.

I'll wait for more of a consensus before I change my original post on the Zara Yaqob Domination gauntlet post again (first change was a bit premature it seems).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ozbenno]

I need Domination to complete my Deity EQM for Machiavelli, so this looks good. I already have Zara, used him for my only Conquest Deity win (was for a gauntlet long ago).

 

[ZPV]

Would Deity Quick Small work to everyone's satifaction? With Quick speed the military campaigns will become more difficult, but this should be mitigated by the Small map where one could choose as few as four opponents. Plus any Era can be used (Ancient through Renaissance Eras primarily; the Industrial Era may be too late to use the Oromo Warrior; not sure how late the Stele is available though), so that should ensure that most players can at least score a nice Diety win.

I'll wait for more of a consensus before I change my original post on the Zara Yaqob Domination gauntlet post again (first change was a bit premature it seems).

Sun Tzu Wu

Why put the speed down to Quick at all? Normal/Small should be challenging enough, if you're going for a fast win.

Steles are probably irrelevant. Caste System is much more effective for popping that last border.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Why put the speed down to Quick at all? Normal/Small should be challenging enough, if you're going for a fast win.

Steles are probably irrelevant. Caste System is much more effective for popping that last border.

The first Speed and Map Size I considered for this Zara Yaqob Diety Domination was Normal Small. However, we already have had a gauntlet at Diety Normal Small. That's why I suggested Diety Normal Standard in my original post.

You are probably right about Quick speed. It may be too much of a challenge for many/most players, even with the option of starting at Any Era.

I'm changing my original post back to Normal Standard.

A Stele provides +25% Culture and Stonehenge provides a Stele in every city. The Stele can't simply be ignored, even if it helps pop borders only a turn faster at the end.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

If anyone doesn't like Deity Normal Standard for the Zara Yaqob gauntlet, Deity Epic Small still needs a gauntlet. It should be very easy to win a game, given that the Era is Any and Epic speed provides plenty of time to use Oromo Warriors effectively, before they become obsolete.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'm revising my initial ideas for beelining Gunpowder for Oromo Warriors:

1. Research Bronze Working for Chopping and possibly Slavery.
2. Beeline Writing for creative Libraries.
3. Chop/whip a few Settlers for moderate land grab + build Libraries.
4. Hire two Scientists in 2-4 cities, but not the capital.
5. Oracle Theology in the capital.
6. Great Scientist bulb Paper.
7. Great Scientist bulb Education; Use anonther GS to bulb the rest of Education or just Research the rest.
8. Research Gunpowder.

Trade for or bulb Machinery (must be done before oracling Theology or Printing Press would be bulbed instead).

Trade for or bulb Engineering (must be done begore oracling Theology or Printing Press would be bulbed instead).

Liberalize Nationalism to run Nationhood.

Finally beeline Steel for Cannons which will drastically reduce Oromo Warrior loses sans any seige units.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Here is something from the Civ IV Update discussion thread that I reposted here that may relevant to the Zara Yaqob gauntlet suggestion:

I agree with Ozbenno that Zara Yaqob could perform very well on Large/Huge Domination Victories. I also believe he would perform almost as well on smaller maps (Small and Standard) at quicker speeds (Quick and Nomal) relative to other leaders compared on the same settings. The key in my opinion is a beeline to Gunpowder via oracled Theology and Great Scientist bulbed Paper and Education. Then there is the option to Liberalize Gunpowder, though I'd prefer to trade for Philosophy and Liberalize Nationalism, so Oromo Warriors can be drafted. With Barracks and Vassalage, drafted Oromo Warriors could be Drill III and would need only 3 more XPs to get Drill IV.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Revent]

Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Monarch+ (could be up for debate)
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Archipelago
Speed: Normal
Civ: Montezuma
Opponents: Hannibal, Jao, Willem, Darius, Victoria, Mehmed, Ragnar
Version: 3.19.003

Idea I got from S%T forum

 

[shulec]

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Starting Era: Any
• Map Size: Standard (Edit: Large has been withdrawn)
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Normal
• Civ: Ethopia (Zara Yaqob)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003

No options restrictions (such as Must not check No Barbarians or No Tribal Villages or must check No Vassals).

Sun Tzu Wu

Please eliminate cheese and disallow permanent alliances!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Please eliminate cheese and disallow permanent alliances!

Sorry, for the Zara Yqod Diety gauntlet, I prefer NO option restrictions. If a player wants to research/trade/bulb their way to Communism/Facism while building up their diplomancy for a PA Domination Victory, I am very happy for them to try to take the top spot with that approach. Personally, I wouldn't use that approach, since there are strategies that should provide a win date (turn) much earlier than a "PA" approach could acheive. Personally I think that Tribal Villages are a worse form of "cheese". (I my opinion, I would prefer not calling anything "cheese"; In the end, its just a label for something that works that a vocal minority complain about. The HoF is for players that can win the earliest possible date, sometimes by "thinking outside the box". Do we want to prevent players from "thinking outside the box" by narrowly restrictioning which options they must use and must NOT use?)

I'm definitely not in favor of any option restrictions for this gauntlet, even if I were personally in favor of them (such as banning Tribal Villages in all games). For example, if someone thinks they can win earlier with Tribal Villages, I would say go ahead and try. Same with Permanent Alliances or any other option permitted by HoF rules.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Starting Era: Any
• Map Size: Standard (Edit: Large has been withdrawn)
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Normal
• Civ: Ethopia (Zara Yaqob)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003

No options restrictions (such as Must not check No Barbarians or No Tribal Villages or must check No Vassals).

Sun Tzu Wu

I've been thinking about the size change from Large to Standard. I really don't like making this compromise for the few players that have difficulty playing Large (or Huge) maps. If you have such difficulties, saving the game more often and restarting BtS or even rebooting periodically within HoF rules limitations may help with playing larger maps.

In any case, I've decided to revert back to a Large map, because it seems more suitable to Zara Yaqob unique unit and more impotantly, this table is open for any approach (including Starting Era) to theorectically (at least) gain the #1 spot in this table, since the current #1 game is an AD 2043 win.

I will change my original post to reflect the above explained "change of heart".

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Bugio]

My first gauntlet suggestion! Not sure if it is winnable at all, or if it is ever been suggested before, anyway:

• Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Monarch
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Normal
• Map Type Any
• Speed: Normal
• Required: Always Peace
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Joao II, Charlemagne, Justinian, Augustus Caesar, Cyrus, Suleimein, Catherine, Victoria, Gengis Khan, Julius Caesar
• Version: 3.19.003

The idea is to get domination by culture/espionage, the problem is that you cannot be imperialistic and all your opponents are, so the map will be filled with cities pretty fast.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

Always peace option is banned for HoF games .

I've played a couple of games like that a long time ago, and those were a lot of fun.

Flipping AI's capitals is great.

cheers