Gaza Beach Shelling

[civ2]

Also, you shouldn't forget those who die indirectly due to Israeli action.

Correction: due to Palestinian actions.

 

[Leha]

Here we go:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150355528023&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

While sticking to its demand for the establishment of an independent inquiry into a blast on a Gaza beach 10 days ago that killed seven Palestinian civilians, the Human Rights Watch conceded Monday night for the first time since the incident that it could not contradict the IDF's exonerating findings.

Garlasco told Klifi during the meeting that he was impressed with the IDF's system of checks and balances concerning its artillery fire in the Gaza Strip and unlike Hamas which specifically targeted civilians in its rocket attacks, the Israelis, he said, invested a great amount of resources and efforts not to harm innocent civilians.

Now, let's wait and see if BBC and Guardian will apologize as did canadian newspaper for their article about Iran labeling jews.

 

[boarder]

Hmm it would seem to me that instead of putting all the blame onto western media perhaps the question should also go to Israeli media and also the goverment while not acknowledging that Israel was to blame, immediantly apologised and said they where investigating as well as saying that they where firing shells into that area at the time.
In fact Olmerts own daughter Dana, marched outside the home of IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz, calling him a “murderer,” blamed Israel.http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=12600
So it looks to me that Israel almost accepted blame and hinted that they where responsible immediantly after. Before a thourough investigation had taken place.
Hardly surprising that they are going to run with that story.

 

[civ2]

Unfotunately some Israelis fail to adequately understand their own situation - they're under "Americanized democration's" impression that "everybody must be made content".
The problem is - Palestinians are not the ones that CAN be made content with anything less than annihilation of Israel.
It's their politics, their home chatter topic and their way of life.
Until this changes - Israel[is] acts foolishly by approving Palestininans.

 

[Princeps]

Correction: due to Palestinian actions.

That "mommy, he hit first!" -arguement doesn't work, since ultimately it was the israelis who were the ones to make the first hit. People die because of poverty, destruction of economy and infrastructure. I have little sympathy for Israel as long as it forces the Palestinians to live in poverty.

Also, don't use that grin so much, it looks wicked.

Palestinians are not the ones that CAN be made content with anything less than annihilation of Israel.

Well, if Israel would retreat away from Palestinian areas and begin a large scale reconstruction of the areas they've damaged, I assure you the Palestinian opinion on Israel would improve immensly.

 

[civ2]

NAZIassbandit
I'm not surprised by you.
Such nick definitely shows whose side you're on.
I won't repeat mine and others' explainations about who IS guilty - just read for yourself.

 

[Princeps]

I won't repeat mine and others' explainations about who IS guilty - just read for yourself.

I've read, none of them change my opinion.

Also, my "screen name", or whatever you call it, has nothing to do with my political opinions. I'm not nazi. I've got to change my name someday, if its possible.

 

[blargh]

Soooo... about the ass bandit part.

 

[Leha]

I'd like to remind some posters(since I don't have permission to address them directly) that Israel didn't apologize. Israeli officials told "they are sorry innocents were killed". "I'm sorry" is not only the way of taking responsibility for something, but also mean of expressing the compassion. I thought it should be pretty obvious for english-speaking person. Also, it is a good opportunity to point out that Israeli side expressed compassion where innocent palestinians were killed, where palestinians would dance on the streets full of joy if sides were switched.

Also I'd like to point out,that Dana Olmert in no way represents Israely official policy. Her way to express herself has nothing to do with BBC or Guardian.

So....Israel didn't accept blame....not even "almost".


And if it did...MSM which pretends to be "unbiased" and "most updated"(like BBC or Guardian)should check its sources, and not jump greedily to hasty blaming.

 

[Princeps]

Also, it is a good opportunity to point out that Israeli side expressed compassion where innocent palestinians were killed, where palestinians would dance on the streets full of joy if sides were switched.

Don't try this moral relativism. "We're better people!!!"

I think its fair to say that Israel has done far worse things than the terrorist organizations they fight against, and I'm dissapointed.

 

[Leha]

Don't try this pathetic moral relativism."We're better people!!!"

I think its fair to say that Israel has done far worse things than the terrorist organizations they fight against, and I'm dissapointed.

It is of course very easy to say to opponent "Don't try this pathetic moral relativism".Much,much harder is to say "Yeah, it is so".

Also it is not nice to put your words into my mouth. Where did I say "we are better people"????? Next thing you'll say I'm racist?
Are you denying the fact that successfull terroristic act against israeli civilians is selebrated by palestinians? Are you denying the fact that suicide bomber is considered hero among palestinians?

Bring me ONE fact of such selebrations on israeli side and I'll continue talking to you.

 

[boarder]

You can address me personally as long as you dont imply that im a rascist.
If your going to do that then don't bother.
Anyway back on topic, First of all I didnt say that they accepted responsibility I said they hinted that they where to blame. Youll probably disagree with me on that but editorials from Israeli papers that I have read suggest the same thing, basically that Israel jumped to blame itself as much as western media.
While what you say may be true about the exact wording, it was implyed by Israel that it was a shell from them, and therefore the western press ran with it, the next night on tv here in nz the story was that it was probably not from Israel, I dont know about other news outlets like the bbc etc as I dont really read them, but the fact that they ran the story from a Israeli point on tv here kind of makes it out that in fact western media isnt as biased against Israel as you make out.
And obviously Dana Olmert doesnt represent squat I thought well if she can get it so wrong then it is no surprise that western media can, I thought it was a good example and also found it amusing.
And yes its pretty sick alright that they celebrate and hand out sweets when innocent Israelis are killed. There must be so much hatred in them to do that as i cannot fathom why anyone would celebrate something like that.

 

[Leha]

You can address me personally as long as you dont imply that im a rascist.
If your going to do that then don't bother.
Anyway back on topic, First of all I didnt say that they accepted responsibility I said they hinted that they where to blame. Youll probably disagree with me on that but editorials from Israeli papers that I have read suggest the same thing, basically that Israel jumped to blame itself as much as western media.

Israeli officials told that they are sorry innocents died and that investigation of the accident will be ordered. They allways state it this way, because palestinian sources love to use a little lie to affect sencitive world community. There is no hint here.

While what you say may be true about the exact wording, it was implyed by Israel that it was a shell from them, and therefore the western press ran with it, the next night on tv here in nz the story was that it was probably not from Israel,

One of the versions states that it was israeli shell, which didn't explode earlier or was used by terrorists as booby-trap against israeli marines, but not fired shell. MSM stated immediately that israeli bombardment killed people on the beach.

I dont know about other news outlets like the bbc etc as I dont really read them, but the fact that they ran the story from a Israeli point on tv here kind of makes it out that in fact western media isnt as biased against Israel as you make out.

OK, then why don't we still see them printing Garlasco agreeng with Israeli version on the front page?

And obviously Dana Olmert doesnt represent squat I thought well if she can get it so wrong then it is no surprise that western media can, I thought it was a good example and also found it amusing..

No, it is not a good example for our topic. But it is a good example Israel is very strong democracy. There are people here (like Dana) on the far left, which will state Israel is racist/apartheid state no matter what.
Also there are people here on far right(like Liberman), which demand to shell populated areas of Gaza till they are completely destroyed. Such wings exist in every democratic country and citing one of them in argument seems to me not correct, right?

And yes its pretty sick alright that they celebrate and hand out sweets when innocent Israelis are killed. There must be so much hatred in them to do that as i cannot fathom why anyone would celebrate something like that.

I'm glad you agree(at last ). Though I repeat again, I don't think we are better people. I'm sure that if palestinians were led by rational government really striving for peace and fighting terrorists, they actually could be greatest friends of Israel, because no other arab country really wants them or cares for them.

 

[boarder]

Israeli officials told that they are sorry innocents died and that investigation of the accident will be ordered. They allways state it this way, because palestinian sources love to use a little lie to affect sencitive world community. There is no hint here. .

I believe they also stated they where shelling the area at the time, I guess we will have to disagree whereas I think they did imply that they where probably guilty and the media ran with it.
I also believe if I was that wrong then why like i said previously are Israeli editorials asking the same question.(the question being did Israel assume guilt to fast),(at least 2 i read a few days ago where)

One of the versions states that it was israeli shell, which didn't explode earlier or was used by terrorists as booby-trap against israeli marines, but not fired shell. MSM stated immediately that israeli bombardment killed people on the beach.

Yes I fail to see your point, but then again im unsure of who MSM is?

OK, then why don't we still see them printing Garlasco agreeng with Israeli version on the front page?.

Sorry once again im unsure of whom Garlasco is, I guess they are a media outlet of some kind.
I think a few media outlets are still asking questions over who is right.
As they should imo, we can't just take what army and politicans say at face value.

No, it is not a good example for our topic. But it is a good example Israel is very strong democracy. There are people here (like Dana) on the far left, which will state Israel is racist/apartheid state no matter what.
Also there are people here on far right(like Liberman), which demand to shell populated areas of Gaza till they are completely destroyed. Such wings exist in every democratic country and citing one of them in argument seems to me not correct, right?

Well to be honest I wouldnt have had a clue which side of the political spectrum Dana Olmert is on, I just thought gee well if she can get it wrong living there and her father being well whom he is then its a good example of how media can get things wrong.

I'm glad you agree(at last ). Though I repeat again, I don't think we are better people. I'm sure that if palestinians were led by rational government really striving for peace and fighting terrorists, they actually could be greatest friends of Israel, because no other arab country really wants them or cares for them.

omg is that like twice in one day we agree,whats the world coming to

 

[Leha]

I believe they also stated they where shelling the area at the time, I guess we will have to disagree whereas I think they did imply that they where probably guilty and the media ran with it.
I also believe if I was that wrong then why like i said previously are Israeli editorials asking the same question.(the question being did Israel assume guilt to fast),(at least 2 i read a few days ago where)



Yes I fail to see your point, but then again im unsure of who MSM is?


Sorry once again im unsure of whom Garlasco is, I guess they are a media outlet of some kind.
I think a few media outlets are still asking questions over who is right.
As they should imo, we can't just take what army and politicans say at face value.



Well to be honest I wouldnt have had a clue which side of the political spectrum Dana Olmert is on, I just thought gee well if she can get it wrong living there and her father being well whom he is then its a good example of how media can get things wrong.



omg is that like twice in one day we agree,whats the world coming to

Wanted to make detailed reply, but can't,sorry, child is taking too much of my lifeforce

MSM is abbreviation for "mainstream media".
Mark Garlasco is former pentagon expert who now is working for HRW (human right watch). You can find several articles on him in the links posted by me in this thread and see how he is connected to "Gaza beach shelling".
In the short: he was last hope of Guardian and co. to make it look israeli fault.

Now I should take leave, daughter is waiting

 

[boarder]

Ok thanks for your info.
Have fun with your daughter