The Great Los Angeles Fire of 2025

[Archon8]

You forgot a source
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-california-ultimatums-wildfire-aid-2020561

Changes to water policy to make water available to the people of California is likewise not a "far right" policy.

Policy position isn't determined by the regular voters that end up supporting it. At least, that wasn't my argument, nor was I calling people in favour of it automatically far-right.

(this is, of course, assuming in good faith that voter ID is the only such policy California is being mandated to accept in exchange for aid, given that all GoodEnoughForMe said was "immediately embracing significant far right policies")

GoodEnoughForMe said "far right policies." I cannot comprehend how either voter ID, supported by a vast majority of Americans, or making water accessible to the people of California to be "far right," unless you consider the center of the aisle to be Kotaku. And if your measure of extremism is something other than standard deviations from the average view, then that is your opinion of what left and right are, and is not based in reality.

 

[Arwon]

You forgot a source
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-california-ultimatums-wildfire-aid-2020561

Good lord but the system collapse is happening swiftly. This is already so far away from anything people might pretend is a rules based constitutional order and it's been like a week and a half.

 

[Angst]

if the majority opinion is is always moderate and can't be far right, then ... slavery is moderate. csa and crap. plenty of left-wing nightmare nightmare states you'd also consider moderate. it is sheer bull.

anyways.

1

voter ID is institutionally useless, as there's already plenty of safety features in place to make placed votes in the us safe. in denmark we get our vote cards by mail and have other options if we need that. no issue with corruption or fraud in the booth. it's not a size problem. voter ID is unnecessary anywhere. the literal only structural function it has is to keep voters away from the booth, and it particularly hits the poor. everyone in power that pushes for voter ID knows this. you're told this too by anyone that knows anything about voter ID.

if literally a dozen people exactly commited voter fraud in the states, it would not move the needle. voter ID could technically prevent those twelve votes. it has literally no function on a societal level as to securing the electoral process today. the literal only function it does is keep certain groups further away from the booths by virtue of economic inequality. this is what you know that it does.

2

transactional disaster relief is a batshit rep shpiel they already did with the hurricane last year. it is tiring, esp because democrats indeed never question whether to send aid to red states or not. voter id has nothing to do with disaster relief. the water release stuff is hilarious and weird and is closer to something you can ask for, although i have absolutely no clue what trump is on about. i guess fire < water, but every person i know with some knowledge of fire disasters (talking scientists and firefighters and such) are facepalming so hard at it.

remember that the money for disaster relief basically comes from wealthy blue states. we're in a perculiar situation because california was hit. they're a big part of relief elsewhere. this is literally only a rational thing to do if you either expect trump to become god-emperor or expect democrats to never mirror this behavior of transactional relief. and, well, to be fair, both may very well happen.

 

[Lexicus]

And if your measure of extremism is something other than standard deviations from the average view, then that is your opinion of what left and right are, and is not based in reality.

This is amazing in a way, it's like thought wielded as a negation of thinking.

 

[Angst]

This is amazing in a way, it's like thought wielded as a negation of thinking.

i mean, that's the function of it. reality doesn't exist. it can be negotiated. all that matters is tribe.

 

[Gorbles]

GoodEnoughForMe said "far right policies." I cannot comprehend how either voter ID, supported by a vast majority of Americans, or making water accessible to the people of California to be "far right," unless you consider the center of the aisle to be Kotaku. And if your measure of extremism is something other than standard deviations from the average view, then that is your opinion of what left and right are, and is not based in reality.

Telling people their opinions aren't based in reality because you haven't taken the time or good faith to understand them is also what I'd call insulting, and we're way past the first time of you doing this. I recommend care when attempting to call out other posters in that regard.

Anyhow, the water policy literally comes from Trump and the Republican Party. It is therefore strongly, if not excessively, right wing. Your own personal sympathies for Trump, his party, or the water policy do not negate this. It was enforced by executive order.

I think it's very reasonable to suggest policy enacted by a right-wing government to be called right-wing. Even far-right, because it directly serves the interests of the admin over the state of California. You're allowed to disagree.

 

[Arwon]

voter ID is institutionally useless, as there's already plenty of safety features in place to make placed votes in the us safe. in denmark we get our vote cards by mail and have other options if we need that. no issue with corruption or fraud in the booth. it's not a size problem.

In Australia we don't even have "vote cards", you just get your name ticked off the electoral roll when you vote. No ID, since you're already enrolled your name with address is already there.

Any form of identification requirement could only be vote suppressing against certain groups, and given voting is compulsory that would cut against the entire thrust of the intent of electoral law.

 

[Lexicus]

Also since ID didn't exist in the Framers' time, the Framers obviously could not have intended the right to vote to be conditioned on having ID.

 

[Arwon]

No, just on ethnicity and gender and maybe how much money you have

 

[Angst]

In Australia we don't even have "vote cards", you just get your name ticked off the electoral roll when you vote. No ID, since you're already enrolled your name with address is already there.

the funny thing is that when i read that, because the description is slightly less safe than danish elections, my brain instantly goes "wait, doesn't that cause x and y as issues", but i quickly realize two things:
- i can check right now live, and i did, and it's not an issue
- the issues i envision are probably already taken care of, and they are, since it's not an issue

infact i had thoughts about certain problems with the danish model; homeless people, for example, don't have a mailbox to pick up their vote card at. (and yes, the danish word for it is literally vote card, "valgkort".) they can naturally pick up their cards at the local town hall, and if they don't have the ability to get the card, they can then show ID at the booth (funnily enough), which is, notably, fine but shouldn't be required. instead of a restriction, here the ID is a tool to vote, which is kind of the point of democracy, i think.

point is; it's almost as if institutions generally think about these issues and solve them accordingly. and when watchdogs report on it and say you're in the clear, then you're in the clear.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah the general consensus is there are a few dozen or few hundred cases of multiple voting nationally, and they're generally being caused by people with dementia and other capacity issues simply not remembering or not communicating that they've already voted by another method.

In theory if someone were committed and willing to be prosecuted, they could cast a handful of votes on election day by going from polling place to polling place. It would obviously be detected and if the result were historically close, within a handful of votes in that seat, that double counting could be grounds for the seat's election being invalidated and ordered to be rerun as a by election. But yeah, pretty much a non issue

 

[Kaitzilla]

There is a giant benefit concert being put on tomorrow called Fire Aid.

Thursday, January 30th, 2025
6-11P.M. West coast timezone.
3-8P.M. Eastern timezone.

Streaming on YouTube, Prime Video, Apple TV+, and numerous other sites.

FireAid, the massive benefit concert to help LA fire victims, came together quickly. Here’s how

Within days of the devastating Los Angeles-area fires breaking out, a benefit concert was in the works. It’s already raised millions for relief efforts.

apnews.com

It is so big it will take place in 2 stadiums at once.
A big stage and a giant TV in each.

Each band will play 2 to 4 songs, then alternate to the other stadium back and forth.

They will try to raise money for the parts of L.A. that burned down.

Lots of big names.

It seems to still be going? When did it start?

 

[Kaitzilla]

It is now about 9 months later, and they finally caught the person who started the fire!

29-year-old Jonathan Rinderknecht

Everything We Know About Palisades Fire Arson Suspect Jonathan Rinderknecht

Here is everything we know about Jonathan Rinderknecht, the 29-year-old Uber driver suspected of starting the Palisades Fire in Los Angeles.

www.thewrap.com

In the criminal complaint that was filed by the Department of Justice against Rinderknecht on Oct. 2, it is stated that Rinderknecht, who grew up in France and is fluent in French, was working as an Uber driver on Dec. 31, 2024. Two passengers that he drove that night later told investigators that he seemed “agitated and angry.” He was a resident of the Pacific Palisades at the time and later relocated to Orlando, Florida after the January devastation grew out of control.

...

After his interaction with the arriving firefighters, Rinderknecht walked back up the trail and took four videos of the growing fire and the responders on the scene. During an interview on Jan. 24, Rinderknecht correctly told investigators that the fire began on the hillside below the Hidden Buddha clearing. The criminal complaint against Rinderknecht states, “The investigators are not aware of any other way for [him] to have known this non-public information other than having witnessed the start of the fire.”

Here is the picture he asked Chatgpt to generate a few months earlier.


Bottom middle one looks pretty good.

And here is the prompt he fed into the AI.

“A dystopian painting divided into distinct parts that blend together seamlessly. On the far left, there is a burning forest. Next to it, a crowd of people is running away from the fire, leading to the middle. In the middle, hundreds of thousands of people in poverty are trying to get past a gigantic gate with a big dollar sign on it. On the other side of the gate and the entire wall is a conglomerate of the richest people. They are chilling, watching the world burn down, and watching the people struggle. They are laughing, enjoying themselves, and dancing. The scene is detailed and impactful, highlighting the stark contrast and the direct connection between the different parts of the world.”

All-in-all, about $25 billion in damage and a dozen people dead.
In USA #1, that is at least 2 years in jail I think.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

So he did call 911 and, if I'm reading this right, the initial fire was (mostly) put out but was inflamed later. So someone right there did not do their job.

But the federal charges come from him making false statements to investigators. You can ask Martha Stewart about that one; she knows. If he messed up explaining a certain time or a certain distance, that could be construed as "lying".
We're not even getting to California state charges yet, so if he is charged with some kind of manslaughter, his defense might be able to say "hey the firemen put out the first one!" Otherwise why'd they let the guy go after that one?

 

[Kaitzilla]

He was totally nuts.

Alleged LA Palisades firebug Jonathan Rinderknecht threatened to burn down sister’s house before arrest: feds

The disturbing revelations came during a Thursday morning court hearing for Jonathan Rinderknecht, 29, accused of igniting the most expensive wildfire in U.S. history.

nypost.com

MELBOURNE, Florida — The alleged firebug accused of starting the Palisades blaze threatened to burn down his sister’s house and shoot his brother-in-law with a gun hidden in a stuffed animal, authorities said.

The threats concerned Jonathan Rinderknecht’s family so much that they moved out of the house to get away from him, according to feds.

Jeez

So he did call 911 and, if I'm reading this right, the initial fire was (mostly) put out but was inflamed later. So someone right there did not do their job.

But the federal charges come from him making false statements to investigators. You can ask Martha Stewart about that one; she knows. If he messed up explaining a certain time or a certain distance, that could be construed as "lying".
We're not even getting to California state charges yet, so if he is charged with some kind of manslaughter, his defense might be able to say "hey the firemen put out the first one!" Otherwise why'd they let the guy go after that one?

Ya, they put the fire out, but it smoldered underground and flared up a week later before destroying everything.

Not sure how they'd stop that.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

He was totally nuts.

Alleged LA Palisades firebug Jonathan Rinderknecht threatened to burn down sister’s house before arrest: feds

The disturbing revelations came during a Thursday morning court hearing for Jonathan Rinderknecht, 29, accused of igniting the most expensive wildfire in U.S. history.

nypost.com

Jeez


Ya, they put the fire out, but it smoldered underground and flared up a week later before destroying everything.

Not sure how they'd stop that.

You can be certain that a (good) defense attorney will ask every question possible to ensure that the fireman actually believed they put out the initial fire. I'm certainly no fire expert; I know there's something called a ''holdover'' especially when there's a lot of tamped-down dead plant material that could be heated up later. If someone wasn't checking up on the grounds after the fact, that could be negligence, OR, it could be they didn't have time, I don't know. But that may absolve the arsonist of some guilt if they wrote it off as "out".

Granted, the guy did start a fire and should be held accountable for that alone, but whether it became the fire that led to the deaths of several people later, that's a significant yet different question.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So he did call 911 and, if I'm reading this right, the initial fire was (mostly) put out but was inflamed later. So someone right there did not do their job.
...

You were right.

A new view of two critical days that set the stage for the devastating Palisades fire

Newly-released text messages and depositions from California State Parks staffers offer details of state actions and interactions with firefighters after Lachman fire ignited, before it rekindled Jan. 7 into Palisades blaze.

www.latimes.com

An hour after midnight Jan. 1, as a small brush fire blazed across Topanga State Park, a California State Parks employee texted the Los Angeles Fire Department’s heavy equipment supervisor to find out if they were sending in bulldozers.

“Heck no that area is full of endangered plants,” Capt. Richard Diede replied at 9:52 a.m, five hours after LAFD declared the fire contained.

“I would be a real idiot to ever put a dozer in that area,” he wrote. “I’m so trained.”

To be fair to the fire chief, the power company is not allowed to trample the endangered plants either.

LA to Pay $1.9 Million for Utility Crew Damage to Endangered Plants

The city of Los Angeles agreed to pay nearly $2 million in fines for bulldozing over nine acres of a state park in the Santa Monica Mountains and trampling an endangered plant species while replacing power poles near the affluent coastal neighborhood of Pacific Palisades.

www.courthousenews.com

Doing the right thing here and sending the bulldozers in to smother the smoldering initial fire would have absolutely triggered another successful multi-million dollar lawsuit vs. the fire department.

The park service is also not allowed to thin the forests. (Forest Restoration)