Gem: AI

[Thalassicus]

I renamed the "WWGD" section of the mod to "AI," and consolidated the AI-changing files into this one folder. This will probably be very buggy at first, since unlike buildings/units we can't just start a game, look at something, and say the AI works.

The AI section also includes the difficulty adjustments detailed in the AI Bonuses thread.

 

[rhammer640]

So the AI gold spending etc is out in this version already? If so that is awesome and will look forward to my game tomorrow!

 

[Thalassicus]

Yes, but it's probably broken in some way. It's a general rule of computer programming that nothing ever works the first time you try it.

 

[rhammer640]

lol, understandable. How broken do you think? Like crash my game midway through type of broken or the AI just wont always spend its gold correctly sort of broken?

 

[mystikx21]

"we will see how broken in bug reports threads".

I've been finding the patch and GK changes were substantial for introducing new bugs in using VEM/GEM as it comes down. I wouldn't be surprised that it's still glitchy either. Advantage of phasing it in is there are fewer variables per iteration to lock down what's causing them.

 

[Dajet24]

updated both gem and unofficial patch today and now everything crashes after i launch a new game.

 

[Toddy]

updated both gem and unofficial patch today and now everything crashes after i launch a new game.

I can start a new game on a Duel sized map, but any other so far just crashes.

 

[Thalassicus]

Check out the reporting bugs thread if you encounter problems like that. Try the things on the common checklist, in particular make sure there's only 1 copy of the mod in your mods folder. The steam downloader is rather bad about that and often installs multiple versions, which messes up the game.

 

[Zaldron]

Yes, but it's probably broken in some way. It's a general rule of computer programming that nothing ever works the first time you try it.

And if it *seems* to work perfectly the first time, you cower in fear wondering what hidden hard-to-find bug you've created...

 

[Faytte]

Check out the reporting bugs thread if you encounter problems like that. Try the things on the common checklist, in particular make sure there's only 1 copy of the mod in your mods folder. The steam downloader is rather bad about that and often installs multiple versions, which messes up the game.

I can confirm going through all the steps without any luck. The game crashes before i begins, so there are no errors in the lua to report. I have 2 other friends having the same issue. No other mods being used, all folders deleted and cleaned up.

 

[glider1]

Thal I couldn't find the 50% city attack bonus in the AI folder so it's probably in armies. If it's ok with you, could you move that over into the AI folder at some stage because it's more of an AI benefit I personally think.

Thanks if you can do this.
Cheers

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

agreed, it sounds like the appropriate module to add it to. what about the AI autopillage from VEM btw?

 

[Thalassicus]

I create tools in the unofficial patch to use in VEM/GEM. The PROMOTION_HANDICAP tool is created here:
/Civup/Core/CiVUP_Promotions.xml

The tool is used here:
/GEM/AI/GEAI_Handicaps.xml

I split things up like this so people can use Civup as a toolkit for their own projects.

 

[glider1]

Thanks for that.

In 1.05 you changed <AIMilitaryStrategy_Flavors> to <AIMilitaryStrategy_Player_Flavors> I'm not sure why perhaps because of something that is still to come.

In 1.04 the AI was escorting it's settlers as far as I could tell! The other thing was that in 1.04 the AI sent out it's little army of archers and warriors but decided not to attack me and instead beat up a bunch of barbarians. I guess the problem there is that the AI would be under-defended while it's using it's army that way?

Cheers

 

[Thalassicus]

The vanilla game had the strategy_flavors table, and in G&K they split it into player_flavors and city_flavors. I don't know how they interact yet. The player table appears to be most similar to the old table.

 

[glider1]

It looks like Ahriman? was right. I think the AI is attacking city states prematurely now I like the idea and think they don't do it enough in G&K.

But perhaps half way between GEM and G&K might work? Question is, what percent range of success of AI capturing city states is good? 50%-75%?
Cheers

 

[Ahriman]

The initial attack is premature but the followup to that often succeeds.

What I am a bit worried about is the AI design to have 1/4 of the AIs attack city states. I worry that this will mean that all the city states will be gobbled up quickly, because generally speaking the other AIs won't defend those city states.

 

[Thalassicus]

I intend to make AIs focus less on citystates now that Firaxis fixed some underlying problems I could not solve. It's an unintended side-effect left over from some pre-G&K experiments, which did not affect the AI in the old game environment.

AI passiveness was a central problem for a long time. I tried to find ways to get AIs to attack citystates for over a year. Even if AIs were at permanent war with a citystate with units on the citystate borders, they still did not aggressively move in and conquer the city. The behavior you're seeing now was simply the last in a long line of my experiments. In G&K Firaxis finally changed something in the game core so AIs can now attack citystates again. This means the earlier experiments are in a new environment and cause unintended behavior, since they were designed at a time when those experiments had no effect.

My end goal is to get the AI to mimic the behavior of a smart human player. The three best strategies for conquest games are:

1. Conquer nearby citystates, then conquer major civs, if there's any citystates nearby.
2. Conquer major civs, if there are no citystates nearby.
3. Expand, then conquer, if there are no citystates or major civs nearby.

 

[glider1]

Just a quick question about the AI unit experience handicap. At the start of the game the AI will start with enough experience so that each unit get's two free promotions (King = 25+12). Sometimes I see AI units that have no promotions. Is that because the AI has not yet assigned them a promotion but at some point they will?

So far the improvements to the AI are great! I've just seen Toku take Darius's capital in the classical age but not sure how he did it (with cats or not). I'm now starting to think that 50% city attack bonus could be too much but it depends on how people set up their map. On really hilly maps 50% will be needed for sure, but on level maps it could be too much.

Thanks

Cheers

 

[Ahriman]

I think it's cool that you've got AIs to attack city states, but I think that there is still some tinkering to do.

Is it a full 50% city attack for all AI units? That really seems too strong. My current game I have weak neighbors and so in my wars they don't get near my cities, but those cities are going to collapse fast against 50% bonus. Or does this just apply vs city states?

[A 50% bonus will also end up making siege units less important. They already get a 200% bonus vs cities, so adding 50% more makes a very small difference, whereas 50% on mainline infantry or cavalry or archers is a big deal).