Discussion in 'Civ4 - Stories & Tales' started by Kaitzilla, Dec 16, 2015.
Just ask to build Angkor Wat in Khmer lands
Heh, teching Philosophy, building Angkor Wat, and working 3 Priests is a surefire way to get a Great Prophet.
Would be crazy to see Angkor Wat built in Khmer's Angkor Wat city, but he will be dead soon.
Turnset 95 (T334 to T335)
T334 Continued - With Angkor Thom captured, it is time to reinforce captured cities and kill off targets of opportunity.
3 Archers and 3 Chariots are just north of Angkor Thom.
Since Chariots don't get defensive bonuses inside cities, best to kill off the Archers first.
Horse Archer won against Archer 1N1W of Angkor Thom at 95.6% odds.
Sword won against Archer 1N1W of Angkor Thom at 87.8% odds.
Sword won against Archer 1N1W of Angkor Thom at 98.5% odds.
War Elephant won against Chariot 2N of Angkor Thom at 99.8% odds.
I'd like to kill those last 2 Chariots, but I'm out of units to easily kill them.
I'll ...... have to halt my attack.
It's hard to describe the feeling of having to do such a thing.
Link to video.
Gathering up all spare units, I'll push east for the lightly defended hilltop city Pre Rup.
The injured Catapults can bombard down city defenses just as well as full hp Catapults.
The Chariots 1E of Angkor Thom can also assist the attack against Pre Rup if needed.
A Khmer Sword, Axe, and 4 Chariots are all within range to counter attack Angkor Thom, so I filled it with 4 injured units from the Yasodharapura attack to guarantee I hold Angkor Thom 1 turn.
My forces around Raja continue to heal and will start the advance towards Jayendranagari next turn along with the Catapult reinforcements.
Spies have identified the locations of the missing Bandeay Kdei garrison heading south.
They will barely be enough to reinforce the pitiful garrison at Angkor Wat.
Note that my Vision Chariot has also revealed the defenses of the final Khmer island city of Lingapura. (20% defenses, hilltop city, 4 units)
Founded Samsum 5S2W of Chinook, my 37th city.
A 1-Fish island village that proudly boasts of being the first city founded while the Emperor was sober, and thus is the most important city in the empire.
Reinforcements are now marching towards Angkor Wat.
The southern front has everything it needs for victory already.
T335 - Barbarians: No deaths.
Spy killed in northern Khmer.
Great Scientist born in Poland.
Arabia is plotting war.
Incense near Biskek is now connected to my empire providing +1 Happiness ^_^
Wheat to Japan for 6 per turn canceled by Tokugawa.
Thracian, the barb city I was unable to capture before the Khmer war, was captured by the Japanese Empire.
Axe won defending against Axe 4N1E of Nagara Jayasri at 99.4% odds.
Axe won defending against Spear 4N1E of Nagara Jayasri at 95.8% odds.
War Elephant won defending against Sword 4N1E of Nagara Jayasri at 97.8% odds.
Khmer's 3rd attempt to break through my northern defensive front failed.
Hinduism spread in Nagara Jayasri with Missionary.
Traded Calendar to Rome for 355 out of his 510 total. (Rome was almost finished teching Calendar)
Reinforced the northern defensive line by moving the injured Axe to Nagara and moving the Guerrilla Longbow into the Axe's old spot.
I'm starting to become genuinely curious when Spain will finish the Apostolic Palace.
Theology would be nice to have when I come out of Anarchy in 2 turns so I can start teching Paper with +40% tech bonus.
AP is a 1200 hammer wonder and Isabella currently has a cost of 6660 Espionage Points to sabotage production in Madrid.
We'll use the formula SabotageProduction*((EspionageByAIOntoYou+100)/(3*InvestigateCity)) to calculate hammers in Madrid's build.
6660*((86+100)/(3*322)) = 6660*(186/966) = floor(1238760/966) = 1282 Hammers.
The formula has never failed before. >_>
Let's try the easier formula that only works if Influence Civics has a number value.
(Sabotage Production / Influence Civics) * 100
(6660/1392) * 100 = 478 Hammers.
Gah, what the hell?
Both are obviously wrong!
My faith in formulas to calculate hammers in city builds is shaken.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
This is the instructions for calculating hammers invested that Izuul gave me a few SGOTMs back:
I'm not sure if the base cost for Poison water of 120 is true for marathon speed as well, but since it's currently 139, it might be. If this is the case, the formula above gives me:
6660/(139/120)/6 = 958 hammers invested (probably not exactly accurate due to some rounding issues here and there)
Very interesting thread, reminds me of Snaaty's Earth thread from long ago... wow it's almost been 10 years already.
Anyhow, just my casual drop by to say that the easy formula is calibrated to Normal Speed. Since changing speed to Marathon doubles production costs, you need to add a factor of 2 in your calculations.
Speed factor*(Sabotage Production / Influence Civics) * 100
2* (6660/1392) * 100 = ~957 Hammers
Keep up the good work!
Influence civic missions are twice as expensive on marathon speed. (iAnarchyPercent=200 on marathon, iAnarchyPercent=100 on normal speed). That's where the speed factor in kossin's formula comes from.
The better formula is:
Hammers = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650/6)
It works for all game speeds. Plus, City Revolt cost is always visible in the espionage screen.
That is really cool Elitetroops.
Figure out the modifier, then pull it out of the sabotage production cost.
Then divide by 6 to get the base hammers.
I never knew that the base Espionage cost was production*6
Hah, so the simple formula does work, it just needs a game speed modifier.
Also, I never knew Snaaty did an 18 civ Earth Marathon map almost 10 years ago.
He was really gifted at making good stories.
Is that Vanilla civ I see?
Would be hard for me to play without Bug Mod, or a lot of the improvements BTS and Warlords made.
Wow, works on all game speeds and the info is always visible.
I'm not sure where all these formulas come from, but you've sold me on this one Pollina.
Hammers = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650/6)
Hammers = (6660/754) * (650/6) = floor(4329000/4524) = 956 which matches Kossin's and Elitetroop's extended efforts.
I'm also trying harder to Floor() most every time Civ 4 does division as you've pointed out in the past which has been fixing most of my math errors.
Interesting that there are so many different equations in use to calculate the same thing. Just to point out, Pollina's equation works exactly like the one I was using, except she uses the City Revolt mission, with a base cost of 650, instead of Poison Water/Foment Unhappiness to figure out the modifiers. Writing the equation with Poison Water in the same form gives:
Hammers = (Sabotage Production / Poison Water) * (120/6) or (Sabotage Production / Poison Water) * 20
Again, not 100% sure that the base cost for Poison Water is the same on all speeds, but there is a good chance it is as there is no difference between normal and marathon. The Poison Water cost should also be always visible, I think. Since we get slightly different results, it might be that using the larger City Revolt cost to calculate the base cost gives a more accurate answer, due to rounding issues.
The equation you tried earlier using Influence Civics looks very similar to this. I assume it is derived in the same way and the base cost for Influence Civics i 600 on Normal Speed and 1200 on Marathon speed.
Acutally, floor() is not needed here. Better to use normal rounding.
The original formulas in the code are:
Sabotage_Production = 6 * hammers * Cost_Modifier
City_Revolt = 650 * Cost_Modifier
The formula for hammers invested is derived from that. You don't need to use floor() here, since there is no division done in the code. Well, that's only partly true. There is some rounding done in the espionage screen when applying the Cost_Modifier, but the City Revolt formula is a lot less sensitive to it than the Poison Water formula.
The cost of Poison Water missions used to be tied to the speed dependent iHurryConscriptAngerPercent value (see this Mission Cost Guide), but that seems to have changed in some patch. Your formula should now work for all game speeds.
Wow that is extremely easy to remember.
Hammers = (Sabotage Production / Poison Water) * 20
Don't need to Floor() and City Revolt formula is slightly more accurate, got it.
Hammers = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650/6)
That's great news that the Poison Water formula works on all game speeds.
Turnset 96 (T335)
T335 Continued - The consensus is that Spain's capital Madrid has 957/1200 in Apostolic Palace.
Madrid currently has 13 population and Isabella is running Theology.
She doesn't have Metal Casting, so Isabella is building the 1200 wonder with no production bonuses.
Much like The Great Lighthouse, the AP is best built by an Industrious civ, of which Spain is not.
Continuing with the Khmer war, Pre Rup (hilltop) is guarded this turn by 4 defenders and 4 Workers.
It shouldn't be a problem after my 2 nearly dead Catapults bombard down its 20% defenses.
Pre Rup's defenses reduced to 4%.
Catapult lost against Sword in Pre Rup at 29.2% odds.
Catapult won against Archer in Pre Rup at 45.8% odds.
War Elephant won against Archer in Pre Rup at 95.1% odds.
War Elephant won against Sword in Pre Rup at 96.3% odds.
Axe won against Axe in Pre Rup at 96.1% odds.
Sword won against Archer in Pre Rup at 99.9% odds.
Pre Rup captured!
4 Workers captured.
The city yielded 120, 8 population, and no buildings.
Khmer reinforced his 2 Chariots just north of Angkor Thom with an Archer, but that just gives me more free kills.
War Elephant won against Archer 2N of Angkor Thom at 100% odds.
War Elephant won against Chariot 2N of Angkor Thom at 97% odds.
Chariot won against Chariot 2N of Angkor Thom at 98% odds.
My reinforcements from the homeland advanced north against Angkor Wat.
Everyone around Angkor Thom, Pre Rup, and Yasodharapura moved into Angkor Thom to heal.
The Super Medic moved into Hariharapura to safely advance to Angkor Thom next turn.
My southern army advanced towards Jayendranagari to capture it next turn.
Once Jayendranagari is mine, my fleet of 2 Triremes and 1 Galley can advance to the east coast of Khmer to help invade the last island city of Lingapura.
The Yue are back to harassing northern Khmer again with a War Elephant + Catapult
No idea if Japan will ever send an attack force.
Siberian scout found a barb city!
Turnset 97 (T336)
T336 - Barbarians: No deaths.
The Apostolic Palace was built in Spain.
That means Hinduism is the AP religion, so all Hindu Temples, Monasteries, Cathedrals, and the Kashi Vishwanath give +2
There was an election to choose who will propose AP resolutions.
The choices were:
1) Spain, because she built the AP.
2) Ottomans, because I am a Full Member running Hinduism as my state religion (each population gives 2 votes) and have the most Hindu population.
I've spread Hinduism to almost all my cities to ensure I have the most votes so I can run against whomever built the AP. (Most civs are running Hinduism)
I voted for myself
Looks like Isabella whipped away half her population in Madrid again to get the AP done.
Carthage DOW'd Germany.
China DOW'd Germany.
Great General was born in Germany.
Not sure how much longer Germany will last.
I DOW'd them on T286 because Israel asked, and I bribed Shaka to DOW them 20 turns ago so I could eventually trade for Shaka's Compass.
Guessing what just happened, I'd say:
Carthage attacked Germany.
Carthage didn't capture the lone capital city since Germany is still alive.
Germany got enough xp defending to spawn a Great General.
Then China either got bribed into the war with a Carthage tech or dogpiled because they weren't plotting war last turn.
Nagara Jayasri and Vimayapura both came out of revolt and have borders now, so they will be easier to defend.
I love the 2 Catapults
Moving and bombarding on the same turn, I might not be able to go back to playing regular civ.
Promoted an Angkor Wat Catapult to Accuracy to speed up my bombardment since I am out of for city revolts.
Angkor Wat's defenses reduced to 34%.
Angkor Wat has 6 defenders
Accuracy Promotion on Catapult
Jayendranagari is yet another hilltop Khmer city that has 5 defenders this turn.
With only 3 Catapults, it is a hard decision whether to bombard the 20% defenses down, or just attack with all 3.
Thankfully, one of the Catapults can get the Accuracy Promotion, so bombarding (-16% defenses or 0.16*6 = 0.96 shaved off a Sword with less on the weaker units) is a no brainer.
-16% bombard is stronger than the 9% collateral damage to base_hp a Catapult will deal which only gets multiplied by +50% from hilltop and fortify.
And I don't have to risky my Catapult dying too!
Jayendranagari's defenses reduced to 4%.
Catapult won against Sword in Jayendranagari at 16.6% odds.
Catapult lost against Sword in Jayendranagari at 15.7% odds.
Axe won against Archer in Jayendranagari at 80.2% odds.
War Elephant lost against Sword in Jayendranagari at 67.5% odds.
Chariot won against Sword in Jayendranagari at 69.9% odds.
Hero of the Sword won against Axe in Jayendranagari at 54.4% odds. YAY!
Sword won against Chariot in Jayendranagari at 100% odds.
Axe won against Sword in Jayendranagari at 100% odds.
Galley and Workboat destroyed.
The city yielded 129, 5 population, and a Granary + Lighthouse.
Khmer is down to 4 cities.
The island city will be troublesome with only 1 Galley to move troops over, but I should have this war wrapped up in about 7 turns.
Turnset 98 (T336 to T337)
Turn 336 Continued - Back in Angkor Wat, I noticed my Spy has a new mission for me called "Bribe Unit"
I'm assuming it refers to one of the 2 Workers in Angkor Wat.
Would bribing them flip the Worker to my side and move it outside the city?
I can spare the small amount of Espionage Points for a science experiment. (I'd get the Worker anyway when I captured Angkor Wat)
Not like I'm going to get enough to revolt another city.
Khmer is broken.
There's no longer any hurry or need to use the espionage slider to speed up city capture.
Let's try to bribe a unit!
It will cost 126 and has 92% odds.
The Spy (+4xp) and the Worker are both in my capital.
Hmm, maybe I can abuse this.
Imagine sabotaging a neighbor's Iron mine on my border.
Workers show up to fix it, and I have 5 spies with -50% wait bonus there to "recruit" them.
The only problem is the -1 diplo sometimes when my Spy gets caught, but it has 5% chance to wear off every turn I think.
Would have to do it on a neighbor I don't mind making angry.
The 150 base cost of the "bribe unit" mission makes it attractive.
Does it work on Settlers or Missionaries too?
All healed units moved towards Angkor Wat for the upcoming attack.
My super medic Axe moved into Angkor Thom along with more injured units, so quite a few units are healing in Angkor Thom now.
The ocean south of Khmer appears clear.
Northern Khmer is also quiet.
Not sure if the Yue Elephant+Catapult died attacking the city or moved away.
Theology is available for trade, but I don't want to trade Spain or Hungary something big like Civil Service for it.
Will wait until next turn and hope for a better trade when I come out of Anarchy.
Traded Copper to Yue for 8 per turn.
T337 - Barbarians: No deaths.
My Anarchy is over
The +23 Free Units from Vassalage has me down to -14 per turn at 0% slider.
Hariharalaya came out of revolt and has borders now.
Genghis Khan asked me to join his war against Ethiopia.
Won the AP residency election with 1605/1773 votes. (90.5%)
Traded Ethiopia Feudalism for Theology.
Some other civs had gold too, but I didn't want to trade them Civil Service of Feudalism.
Slider set to 100% on Paper. (I get a +40% research bonus for knowing Civil Service + Theology)
I could achieve a Religious Victory if I spread Hinduism to each civ on Earth to enable the victory vote.
That would require Machinery, Optics, and Hindu Missionaries sailed to the western hemisphere on Caravels.
Most everyone should vote me for AP win since the threshold is +8 diplo I think (residency only needs Pleased to avoid "no vote") and the AI having better relations with me than my opponent.
Should I attempt a Religious Win?
Or something more violent?
I know you have done enough religious victories, so I don't see you heading this direction unless you want to give this story a quick ending.
A space victory finish to this story would truly be epic. However, if you dare to make the leap to insanity, you could go for a no vassal, no city razing, simultaneous conquest/domination victory. I believe your are familiar with this on deity.
A true statesman wins by diplomatic means. Religious or othervise.
Excessive use of violence and death belongs to forces we dont want to be connected with.
Space? Doubt it is something useful out there.
Your writeup has been excellent. No need to drain extra energy in a won game.
Btw, starting out at Christmas and ending it on Easterday seems proper.
Another vote for space!
This must be the perfect mod for WastinTime.
I vote for a Religious Victory - the one added by this mod. Or would that be too tedious?
Hehe, Challenge II-1 was the hardest game I ever played.
If I was truly going crazy, I could try a Diplo+Space+Dom+Conquest+Culture win all on the same turn, and see which the game picks to give me.
Finish it quickly with the AP, I see.
That's 2 votes for Spaaceeeee
Everyone likes novelty.
Yes, the GEM unique victory, Religious Influence.
Getting Hinduism in 4/5th of the cities on Earth would be interesting to try, especially with Inquisitions.
I'm 99% sure I'd need the Hindu Holy city or Israel would get credited with the win, so I'd have to conquer him.
Conquer anyone who is going crazy with Inquisitions and Theocracy too. (Who isn't Hindu)
The only tedious part would be the 3 Missionary limit, but that can be circumvented with Galleon chains moving them around the world faster than railroads.
The less tedious method would be to raze all the non-hindu cities until 80% of Earth was Hindu cities.
This might be a one-of-a-kind chance to see a Religious Influence win.
I vote for religious influence victory. Novelty FTW!
drown in the blood
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