General A New Dawn discussion

[HorseshoeHermit]

There's a subforum for this. Why don't we express our hopes and dreams over there - in my new thread, perhaps?

Wouldn't multiplayer take way too much time? depends on settings but I play normal game speed starting on ancient age and my games last up to a week even though I play a few hours a day lol.

The treasure is you get to play with opponents, not flowcharts and dice rolls. And diplomacy with a creature that uses Language. There's no comparison.

 

[xtended2l]

not flowcharts and dice rolls

Civ4 is always a dice roll game, if we talk about combat odds. And the moment when you lose 99% win battle and CANNOT load the game is just another, extraterrestrial feeling lol

 

[Slarki]

Civ4 is always a dice roll game, if we talk about combat odds. And the moment when you lose 99% win battle and CANNOT load the game is just another feeling lol

When you start accepting that you can't reload something at all, fights get more intense in my opinion (and thus more fun). This is true in any game I play with ironman/hardcore/rogue/permadeath mode.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

You never pin a war on one battle.
edit: and definitely not the security of your entire state

 

[Vokarya]

I have some tweaks that I want to make to Start as Minors. This is probably one of my favorite options, but there are a few things that I think would improve it. One I can't do, but the rest I think I can.

1. The one I can't do is to "mask" the identity of a leader when their units attack yours. The text message is Your units are under attack by <Insert leader name here>! I think it would be amazing if all units controlled by a minor civilization were Hidden Nationality. That way, you wouldn't trigger meeting enemy leaders in the field, and you could attack and be attacked without finding out who your rival actually is. If that can't be done, I would like the game text for a minor civilization attack to be Your units are under attack by the <Insert civilization name here>! That way you would know who was attacking you, but not the leader's name.

2. I think the end of minor civilization status should come at Code of Laws, not Writing. It's currently tied to Open Borders. Basically, I divide the Ancient Era into an almost-Prehistoric and the real Ancient Era, and Code of Laws is the transition point. This is just Python so I think it's easily doable.

3. One of the things I don't like about Start as Minors is that you never get to see introductory text for the leaders you meet while you are a minor civilization. I think coming out of minor status should reset your IsHasMet status for everyone that is not on your team. I think then you would immediately make contact with any civilization that you were in physical contact with. I would have to try it and see. I think it would also remove any negative penalties for the automatic declaration of war for being a minor civilization.

4. I think the "top civs" display that comes up every few turns should treat minor civilizations as not met. Otherwise it gives away leader identities.

 

[<Nexus>]

I don't think leader identity is a big issue to know but I think I like your ideas. Especially the hidden nationality thing would be great fun. Would add a lot to the early exploration theme

I agree with #2 and #3 too.

One more thing: Contact decay. In my current game I met a single hurrian boat and 400 turns later he was still on my score board though we were both minor civs. And when coming out of MC status I had immediately contact with him. I even saw his previously not discovered city. (I am Deciever so I had some points already)

 

[Vokarya]

One more thing: Contact decay. In my current game I met a single hurrian boat and 400 turns later he was still on my score board though we were both minor civs. And when coming out of MC status I had immediately contact with him. I even saw his previously not discovered city. (I am Deciever so I had some points already)

I don't think Contact Decay is currently enabled by default. You can enable it in lines 536-539 of A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml.

    <Define>
       <DefineName>TECH_ALLOWS_PERMENANT_CONTACT</DefineName>
       <DefineTextVal>NO_TECH</DefineTextVal>
   </Define>

Change NO_TECH to any other tech and I think it should work.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

On minor status, would it be possible, to make ALL minor status Civs, show up as Barbarians.

What I mean is they don't display nationality flag, but keep traits. They just show as Barbarian units, as being a minor status Civ.

It would be a purely display thing, once they hit Code of laws, giving them a semblance of Civilization, they could display nationality flags, leaders etc.

Could that be done just via Python coding??? seems simple to add an over ride, or am I being too simplistic!!!! %-(

 

[<Nexus>]

On minor status, would it be possible, to make ALL minor status Civs, show up as Barbarians.

What I mean is they don't display nationality flag, but keep traits. They just show as Barbarian units, as being a minor status Civ.

It would be a purely display thing, once they hit Code of laws, giving them a semblance of Civilization, they could display nationality flags, leaders etc.

Could that be done just via Python coding??? seems simple to add an over ride, or am I being too simplistic!!!! %-(

I think it would be amazing if all units controlled by a minor civilization were Hidden Nationality.

I don't know though if a city can have a hidden nationality or not. But would be awesome for sure.

 

[devolution]

I have some tweaks that I want to make to Start as Minors. This is probably one of my favorite options, but there are a few things that I think would improve it. One I can't do, but the rest I think I can.

1. The one I can't do is to "mask" the identity of a leader when their units attack yours. The text message is Your units are under attack by <Insert leader name here>! I think it would be amazing if all units controlled by a minor civilization were Hidden Nationality. That way, you wouldn't trigger meeting enemy leaders in the field, and you could attack and be attacked without finding out who your rival actually is. If that can't be done, I would like the game text for a minor civilization attack to be Your units are under attack by the <Insert civilization name here>! That way you would know who was attacking you, but not the leader's name.

I don't know though if a city can have a hidden nationality or not. But would be awesome for sure.

I did a quick test by modifying CvUnit::getVisualOwner():

PlayerTypes CvUnit::getVisualOwner(TeamTypes eForTeam) const
{
    if (NO_TEAM == eForTeam)
    {
        eForTeam = GC.getGameINLINE().getActiveTeam();
    }
    if (getTeam() != eForTeam && eForTeam != BARBARIAN_TEAM)
    {
        // Special option: minor civs show up as barbarians
        const CvTeamAI& kTeam = GET_TEAM(eForTeam);
        if (kTeam.isMinorCiv() || m_pUnitInfo->isHiddenNationality() || isPirate())
        {
            if (!plot()->isCity(true, getTeam()))
            {
                return BARBARIAN_PLAYER;
            }
        }
    }
    return getOwnerINLINE();
}

This makes the units of minor civs show up as barbarians. Of course we'd need additional changes to the scoreboard and most of the callsites that call isHiddenNationality() such as CvUnit::updateCombat() and friends to prevent "information leaks" concerning the actual owner.

 

[<Nexus>]

I don't think Contact Decay is currently enabled by default. You can enable it in lines 536-539 of A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml.

    <Define>
       <DefineName>TECH_ALLOWS_PERMENANT_CONTACT</DefineName>
       <DefineTextVal>NO_TECH</DefineTextVal>
   </Define>

Change NO_TECH to any other tech and I think it should work.

Thank you.
Wasn't it meant to be TECH_TELEGRAPH?

     <Define>
        <DefineName>CONTACT_DECAY_SAMPLING_RATE</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>6</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

Is that 6 on all game speeds or is it multiplied?

     <Define>
        <DefineName>CONTACT_DECAY_NUM_OF_FAILED_CHECKS_BEFORE_CONTACT_LOST</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>10</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

10*6=60
So this means, that if there is no repeated contact within 60 turns, than contact is decayed, right?

    <Define>
        <DefineName>EXPERIMENTAL_AI_TWEAK</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>REVOLUTION_TECH_COST_RATIO</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>82</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>BOOST_NEW_RELIGION_SPREAD_PERCENT</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>250</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

What are these?

IIRC REVOLUTION_TECH_COST_RATIO means that research is "cheaper" with Revolutions ON, right?

 

[Alpaya]

There are a lot of good ideas in Caveman 2 Cosmos mod as you probably know. Something like crime, deceases, pollution as city properties could be a nice addition. Also Great Hunter, Great Healer; more Global and National wonders and mutually exclusive ones; Healer and Guard units. Dynamic leader development. Of course it is a lot of work, especially to teach AI how to use this.

One more humble request - please please add more animals especially in the beginning of the game, and Hunter unit with promotions line that can tame animals and more buildings that these animals could build. It is a good example of advanced and well developed hunting system in C2C. Models, pictures and code could be adapted from this mod if possible.

Thanks!

 

[xtended2l]

There are a lot of good ideas in Caveman 2 Cosmos mod as you probably know. Something like crime, deceases, pollution as city properties could be a nice addition. Also Great Hunter, Great Healer; more Global and National wonders and mutually exclusive ones; Healer and Guard units. Dynamic leader development. Of course it is a lot of work, especially to teach AI how to use this.

One more humble request - please please add more animals especially in the beginning of the game, and Hunter unit with promotions line that can tame animals and more buildings that these animals could build. It is a good example of advanced and well developed hunting system in C2C. Models, pictures and code could be adapted from this mod if possible.

Thanks!

I am interested if someone finished the C2C game ever without issues. The mod is very rich in terms of functions and diversity, right. But I consider it unplayable, and it just, actually, forced me to return back to AND. There were several reason.
1. You cannot play mupltiplayer without OOS errors. In AND2 I found it is possilbe to tweak a pair of options and it is smooth now. But in C2C you can turn off everything, and still it will throw your away right upon connection lol.
2. The game lags like hell. A lot of units, buildings. Screen lag, units lag, turn time is realy enormous.
3. The time you spend to finish the turn is an anomaly. You have to check all tiles for crime, diseases, put special units at affected tiles. Check all cities if all of these new stats are fine. Hunting is another story here, I remember collecting animals in stacks and sending them to cities was just another game lol. To build all of these myth, zoo's and so on. Diversity of buildings just make you stuck at each city screen thinking what's next.

I mean, C2C is still a great mod, but it just crossed the line of reasonability and common sense. I was very impressed when I found all of this diversity at first, but I got bored pretty fast.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Guys, let's be clear, we stated it years ago but it looks like it's time to say that again since there are new users: RAND is NOT C2C. It will never be since it's what we want. While C2C is designed to add every content possible, RAND is designed with another goal: less is more meaning that we will not add more content. We are happy with RAND as it is and prefer to make it playable and as much as possible bug-free.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I don't think Contact Decay is currently enabled by default. You can enable it in lines 536-539 of A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml.

    <Define>
       <DefineName>TECH_ALLOWS_PERMENANT_CONTACT</DefineName>
       <DefineTextVal>NO_TECH</DefineTextVal>
   </Define>

Change NO_TECH to any other tech and I think it should work.

Contact decay is off by default because there was some bug I never had the time to debug which was preventing contact decay. And it was slowing down turns considerably.
TECH_ALLOWS_PERMENANT_CONTACT is the tech which stops contact decaying if the option is ON, it was set to telegraph.

 

[<Nexus>]

One more humble request - please please add more animals especially in the beginning of the game, and Hunter unit with promotions line that can tame animals and more buildings that these animals could build. It is a good example of advanced and well developed hunting system in C2C. Models, pictures and code could be adapted from this mod if possible.

Keep an eye on modmods. Hunting is just one thing I was missing, so I merged some of those stuff into my presonal modmod. I hope to publish it within a month...

Of course I don't want to follow the C2C way. That's too much.

 

[philipschall]

About game stability: What can be done for a game crashing on large maps? For instance, in the 1900 scenario, it tends to be very crashy. Sometimes at absolutely random spots, sometimes on specific turns. Doing CTRL+SHIFT+T may as well be ALT+F4. Playing on GEM without the scenario, I still noticed moderate instability, sometimes crashing a couple turns after an autosave but sometimes going 100 turns without an issue.

Is setting REV civs to 40 advisable? Anything graphical that can be done?

 

[Alpaya]

I am interested if someone finished the C2C game ever without issues. The mod is very rich in terms of functions and diversity, right. But I consider it unplayable, and it just, actually, forced me to return back to AND.
I mean, C2C is still a great mod, but it just crossed the line of reasonability and common sense. I was very impressed when I found all of this diversity at first, but I got bored pretty fast.

The same for me. I tried it once, but I literally got headache of this enormous amount of micromanagement, so I also switched back to AND. But I just want to say that some ideas could be adopted in reasonable scale, especially early game hunting, that I see already in production which is good. It is also some boring to walk on such empty space with very occasional animal and without dedicated to hunting unit.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

About game stability: What can be done for a game crashing on large maps? For instance, in the 1900 scenario, it tends to be very crashy. Sometimes at absolutely random spots, sometimes on specific turns. Doing CTRL+SHIFT+T may as well be ALT+F4. Playing on GEM without the scenario, I still noticed moderate instability, sometimes crashing a couple turns after an autosave but sometimes going 100 turns without an issue.

Is setting REV civs to 40 advisable? Anything graphical that can be done?

Well, I've been able to autoplay an entire game on a map which was bigger than gigantic with 50 civs, an experimental map I created months ago, and I didn't experience CTDs, not to mention MAFs. So I suppose it might have something to do with that specific scenario or with some specific option you are using. For example, setting a low UPT limit will cause all sort of instability problems, no matter what the other options are.

 

[Alpaya]

Hunting is just one thing I was missing, so I merged some of those stuff into my presonal modmod. I hope to publish it within a month.

Thank you. I appreciate this. I think to increase animal quantity on the map, value in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml in the following string should be greatly decreased, at least to the same number as for barbarians.
<iUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal>30</iUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal>

Also dedicated promotion Hunter1, 2, 3 could be created and assigned to new Hunter unit. Then this promotion should be defined in CIV4OutcomeInfos.xml with subdue probabilities say 50, 70 and 90%.

I will do this in my version for testing purposes.