General impression of BERT so far.

[Westwall]

More options != more meaningful options. BE is also lacking in that regard, but I don't think I'm ever going to stop getting confused at these rose-tinted views of SMAC. I should download it to my laptop from GOG, I had to take it off my private Dropbox due to space issues.

You should. The options were definitely more meaningful.

One thing you'll notice right away is that factions actually complain about the practices of other factions, such as that Deirdre wastes her time "dancing naked through the trees" or asks for your help if they're under attack by another faction.

Meanwhile BE factions will ask you to go to war with another faction but bizarrely will never ask you to go to war with someone they're already at war with, even when they're losing. And if you offer to help (by suggesting you both attack), they'll actually tell you no. And if they ask you to go to war with someone who you promised not to because you were "just passing through," they'll hate you for going to war on their behalf even though they were the ones that asked for it! That's another thing, why does the telling a faction you're "just passing through" suddenly mean you can never declare war on that faction EVER?

At least in SMAC, factions will remember who they're at war with and will remind you by saying so. You could also choose to ignore their hails and they could ignore yours.

Meanwhile BE forces me to listen every single time even when they're calling just to make insults.

If you really can't see how diplomacy in SMAC was far more engaging and how the leaders felt far more interesting and distinct then I find that just baffling to be honest.

 

[Hail]

damn! lilgamefreak beat me to it! the "back-of-the-box" test!

1. Ocean gameplay (ocean cities, dig sites, resources, etc.)
2. Hybrid Affinity bonuses (unit upgrades, buildings, etc.)
3. Diplo points (*) and dynamic leader traits
4. New quantitive additions (new factions, buildings, wonders, etc.)
5. Unique Affinity gameplay (Harmony can tame aliens, etc.)
6. Artifact System (collect and unite artifacts to receive cool bonuses like new buildings, wonders, unit upgrades, etc.)

(*) looks like Will got around to playing Endless Legend.
Diplo points resemble the influence points from Endless Legend. it's a yield much like food, but most of it's amount will come from pop not tiles.

once in a while, the player will get this screen where he can choose his bonuses. the required amount scales linearly with the number of cities.

Spoiler :

stations will remain the same. probably victory conditions will mostly remain the same, as will quests and the AI remain the same. label me skeptic.

 

[Westwall]

stations will remain the same. probably victory conditions will mostly remain the same, as will quests and the AI. label me skeptic.

That's really disappointing if true. Ditto if super weapons are still tied to the espionage/intrigue system.

 

[Hail]

That's really disappointing if true. Ditto if super weapons are still tied to the espionage/intrigue system.

Spoiler :

Link to video.

"the tech tree is the primary driver behind your Affinity progression."

primary driver, Carl!
imho, this is the biggest flaw of the game. the devs will not change it. instead, they add hybrid affinity bonuses. hm....
maybe then add a hybrid affinity victory type? are the devs audacious enough?

 

[Westwall]

They already said no hybrid affinity victories.

Ugh.

 

[Ryika]

They also said current victory conditions get adjusted to allow Hybrid Affinities to be competitive.

 

[Gorbles]

Shh Ryika, don't say silly things like that! People prefer the narrative they construct for themselves

You should. The options were definitely more meaningful.

One thing you'll notice right away is that factions actually complain about the practices of other factions, such as that Deirdre wastes her time "dancing naked through the trees" or asks for your help if they're under attack by another faction.

Meanwhile BE factions will ask you to go to war with another faction but bizarrely will never ask you to go to war with someone they're already at war with, even when they're losing. And if you offer to help (by suggesting you both attack), they'll actually tell you no. And if they ask you to go to war with someone who you promised not to because you were "just passing through," they'll hate you for going to war on their behalf even though they were the ones that asked for it! That's another thing, why does the telling a faction you're "just passing through" suddenly mean you can never declare war on that faction EVER?

At least in SMAC, factions will remember who they're at war with and will remind you by saying so. You could also choose to ignore their hails and they could ignore yours.

Meanwhile BE forces me to listen every single time even when they're calling just to make insults.

If you really can't see how diplomacy in SMAC was far more engaging and how the leaders felt far more interesting and distinct then I find that just baffling to be honest.

1. You seem to be labouring under the delusion that because I don't have it installed on my work-provided laptop, I'm somehow forgetting how the game works. I wouldn't do that

2. I never correlated BE's diplomacy to SMAC's. I said that BE was / is lacking, and that you're consistently being overly-favourable to SMAC. I say this as a huge fan of SMAC.

That in of itself would be fine if people were allowed to be overly-positive, or even positive at all about RT. Alas, it seems not!

 

[Westwall]

Calling someone delusional isn't an argument.

You also haven't said how I've been "overly" favorable.

SMAC has a superior diplomacy system to BE and I've stated as much.

You (rightfully) have no argument to contradict this.

Ergo, your rebuttal is a non-argument.

 

[Gorbles]

It doesn't need to be an argument - it's a statement of fact (or otherwise) to be disputed at our leisure. Let's not drag the thread down in needless semantics, please.

SMAC has elements that are superior to what BE offer, mainly revolving around quantity of options and the existence of the Planetary government. The quality of said options is what I was disputing, because most of them boil down to a very similar end goal.

You're presenting these features in a positive light while presenting BE in a bad light. Anyone could do the opposite - I'm trying to find a middle ground, personally. Though at this point it'd really be better in the SMAC thread. I want to be able to talk about enjoying RT in this thread without people manufacturing biased arguments as to why everything sucks because they personally find SMAC better. I've spent enough time debating that, and my preferences for the thread are at least on-topic.

So either admit my assertions r.e. quality of mechanics in SMAC have merit, or agree to disagree I guess? Please stop being so confrontational and then deflecting with pedantic English grammar arguments when called on your attitude. It's messing up the thread :/

 

[leif erikson]

It's messing up the thread :/

Moderator Action: Indeed, let's get back on topic please.

 

[Gorbles]

As a last on this, if you genuinely want to engage on this, either PM me or start up the 'vs. SMAC' thread again. I'm open to either.

On the subject of RT itself, I'm actually quite interested in both how the AI has improved (handling choke points better would be a decent improvement that tends to affect most strategy games. Paradox is notorious for its a abusable AI in this manner) and also the looks of the Hybrid Affinity units.

I'm getting the impression that their visuals are distinct and not an amalgamation. Or at least not a simple one. Quite interested in their distinctive identities as well.

 

[Westwall]

That's fine.

I also hope they improve the diplomacy system because in its current form it's practically vestigial and almost wholly unnecessary to the rest of the gameplay experience except to form research agreements and negotiate peace, as it really isn't necessary to even declare war.