Love
Deity
Goddamnit it feels nice to post the 2000th post in the thread.
General Turn Discussion
- Thread starter Krill
- Start date
azzaman333
meh
In a way, that is a punishment, because Memphus is the most active in the team by a fair margin. It'd probably kill the team to ban him from playing the saves.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
My original post here was - it's never really a good idea to type while angry, and I was angry
I still think this is a bad way to resolve this. However.
I don't know is that there is a better way to resolve it and keep the game going.
Being a moderator is a tough job and sometimes requires compromise and picking the least horrible solution.
However - if Memphus is taken out of the turn player seat, then his rep is stained. It may be stained anyway, but I want to stand by him in this.
I still think this is a bad way to resolve this. However.
I don't know is that there is a better way to resolve it and keep the game going.
Being a moderator is a tough job and sometimes requires compromise and picking the least horrible solution.
However - if Memphus is taken out of the turn player seat, then his rep is stained. It may be stained anyway, but I want to stand by him in this.
Krill
Deity
Basically, no. If that is demanded, without any evidence being given, then this team will disband.
It is impossible to win all 25 battles by play testing the save. I used to replay the turn a lot in my SP games, but I never won all the battles. It does not matter how many times you replay a turn, you will not win all battles. The only way you can win is by being Lucky...
Krill
Deity
Sullla, looking at the position you are in, I'm sorry to say there isn't a lot that you can do, short of presenting every scrap of evidence there is, right? Perhaps it would be best that all the evidence was posted in the public forum? The accusation that has been made is a serious one (it's the gamers version of rape...) and to let it hang in the air with no way for Memphus to clear his name is simply abhorrent, making this nothing more than a kangaroo court in its present guise.
Well that sucks...
Lurker Status? Hmmm kinda an all or nothing thing.
Because midwar switching people makes and empire fall apart, each city is doing specific things and are planned 5-10 turns out. So I suppose I could write it all up?
So what exactly does that mean? Backseat?
Can I log in? Can I do non war moves? Where is the line drawn? If I work with another active team member who does the war moves, but I give advice well then that is no good, especially If I can log in, because I will be accused (and as in this case convicted) of cheating again.
However @All Sancta member's, while part of me agress with A.T. that isn't the way to go. Walking away from the game will only serve to "assure" other teams they were right. If we quit, it is indirectly admitting that I was cheating, which I wasn't.
So instead we can push on however Sulla decides and if/when we lose the game the victory for the other teams will be hollow. Can't beat your best competition? Create a Cou an get them removed.
Lurker Status? Hmmm kinda an all or nothing thing.
Because midwar switching people makes and empire fall apart, each city is doing specific things and are planned 5-10 turns out. So I suppose I could write it all up?
So what exactly does that mean? Backseat?
Can I log in? Can I do non war moves? Where is the line drawn? If I work with another active team member who does the war moves, but I give advice well then that is no good, especially If I can log in, because I will be accused (and as in this case convicted) of cheating again.
However @All Sancta member's, while part of me agress with A.T. that isn't the way to go. Walking away from the game will only serve to "assure" other teams they were right. If we quit, it is indirectly admitting that I was cheating, which I wasn't.
So instead we can push on however Sulla decides and if/when we lose the game the victory for the other teams will be hollow. Can't beat your best competition? Create a Cou an get them removed.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
To be honest, I'm quite soured on the idea of MTDG. There is a lot of work put into them by a lot of people and in both the ones I've been involved with, teams are accused of breaking the rules.
I don't play these games to get into stuff like this.
I don't think this is a deliberate attempt by anyone to manipulate the game. I'm sure that people are legitimately outraged at the results.
But I also don't see how to fight this. Just because it's POSSIBLE to cheat doesn't mean he DID cheat. It's POSSIBLE that the results are valid, as well.
More important, if we go on, we validate everything - if we do well, obviously the entire team is cheating. if we start to lose, obviously memphus is cheating.
Maybe what we need to do is have the mods decide the results of every battle, based on the combat odds.
Yes, I'm kidding.
I don't play these games to get into stuff like this.
I don't think this is a deliberate attempt by anyone to manipulate the game. I'm sure that people are legitimately outraged at the results.
But I also don't see how to fight this. Just because it's POSSIBLE to cheat doesn't mean he DID cheat. It's POSSIBLE that the results are valid, as well.
More important, if we go on, we validate everything - if we do well, obviously the entire team is cheating. if we start to lose, obviously memphus is cheating.
Maybe what we need to do is have the mods decide the results of every battle, based on the combat odds.
Yes, I'm kidding.
Krill
Deity
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And so is all of SANCTA, if the coup stands. That's why this entire situation is ******ed. If cheating can be proved, prove it and let the mods go medieval on the cheaters arse, if it's not it's defamatory to accuse someone of cheating.
Frankly, this entire situation needs to come to a head right now. What proof is there? This is the only way demogames are ever going to work, with proper evidence based methods of accusation (Sullla, why do you think I stayed up until 2am to listen to the start of the Imperio/RB war when you wiped out their units?)
Frankly, this entire situation needs to come to a head right now. What proof is there? This is the only way demogames are ever going to work, with proper evidence based methods of accusation (Sullla, why do you think I stayed up until 2am to listen to the start of the Imperio/RB war when you wiped out their units?)
Hmm, Sullla's discovery is rather worrying. Even if it is not direct evidence of any malpractice, it allows anyone from any team to test out the results of a battle before they attack.
Perhaps a solution would be for someone to turn off the "preserve random seed" option? Probably the host cannot do it, but could we get T-Hawk to modify the savegame to turn the option off in the same way that he was able to change the AI-takeover option in the PB pitboss game>
Perhaps a solution would be for someone to turn off the "preserve random seed" option? Probably the host cannot do it, but could we get T-Hawk to modify the savegame to turn the option off in the same way that he was able to change the AI-takeover option in the PB pitboss game>
mostly-harmless
Prince
I find this whole process hilarious.
There isn't even an open accusation (just general
ing and moaning in the other team forums).
And SANCTA should remove the most active player from the team? In mid-war? Just because it is apparently possible to check out the RNG?
Let there be an "official" complaint by the other teams, presenting EVIDENCE!
Otherwise I'd pretty much prefer sooooo's method, although again, what if Memphus streak of luck ends at the same time?
This whole issue opens the door to blame anyone in MP who won a couple of 30% battles. (You get my drift.)
mh
There isn't even an open accusation (just general
ing and moaning in the other team forums). And SANCTA should remove the most active player from the team? In mid-war? Just because it is apparently possible to check out the RNG?
Let there be an "official" complaint by the other teams, presenting EVIDENCE!
Otherwise I'd pretty much prefer sooooo's method, although again, what if Memphus streak of luck ends at the same time?
This whole issue opens the door to blame anyone in MP who won a couple of 30% battles. (You get my drift.)
mh
He never saw them. He simply infered based on what Sulla said.
You can't look at other team's forums until the game is over, or our team is knocked out. (then you can apply for another team).
Guys,
Speaking of sanctions is jumping the gun way too much. Before sanctions are even considered it has to be clear "beyond reasonable doubt" that foul play has occured and if so, in what way this was done and by who. We are not there (yet).
What we're trying to do is determine that no foul play has occured so we can clear every suspicion. However, if we do find signs "beyond reasonable doubt" that foul play has occured, we are facing the tasks of preventing it from happening again and where possible undo the damage.
To perform this task fairly, we need to be thorough and that takes time. Please accept this.
Speaking of sanctions is jumping the gun way too much. Before sanctions are even considered it has to be clear "beyond reasonable doubt" that foul play has occured and if so, in what way this was done and by who. We are not there (yet).
What we're trying to do is determine that no foul play has occured so we can clear every suspicion. However, if we do find signs "beyond reasonable doubt" that foul play has occured, we are facing the tasks of preventing it from happening again and where possible undo the damage.
To perform this task fairly, we need to be thorough and that takes time. Please accept this.
Ronnie1
Deity
I would not want to be a MOD...but this bites!
IamJohn
(was)?
This. Really there's no possible solution that isn't going to leave someone incensed and threatening to take their marbles and go home in a huff. Seriously, it's just a game- and that should apply to the accusers as well as the people on our team.
I'm not exactly going to be happy about it but if push comes to shove I'm willing to play for team, especially if Memphus can do the domestic side and leave instructions for army.
mostly-harmless
Prince
Sullla mentioned, that there is quite some discussion going on in the other forums. If there were none, we wouldn't even have this discussion.
mh
Krill
Deity
I thought Sullla was the sole person in charge. If not, and you are still in the investigating stage, then good luck finding proof
