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German help needed

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gumbolt, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I like huts, especially if I start with scouts. Events are tied to what is currently going on in game. I'm not sure how 'random' the really are.
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Then read the guide on them. They're random, and if you want a game comparing opening strategies, they go from poorly implemented artificial difficulty to a FLAGRANT bad call. Huts are bad too, one person pops HBR or writing, the other a map. Well, there went the relevance of any micro decisions. Hell, on one occasion the incidence of getting a hut led to oracle ----> religion in a deity game, and avoiding a DoW where everyone else pretty much got wrecked.

    Now, on to the game with a very stupid rule:

    Spoiler :


    We are next to both ragnar and napoleon. Mao and sury are around too.

    These ass hat AIs all start pleased with each other. Failure to DoW with this opening is sort of like bending over. To add insult, WE HAVE BFC HORSE, and in a test run of this I was able to chariot rush ragnar's core cities and then continue on to take 3 of nappy's best cities, including his capitol, and have ~800 gold 2 turns from code of laws (already have monarchy/currency). This allowed me to play diplo w/ sury (who was in a different religion) and have a SECURE empire by 10 AD.

    By the way, we don't have copper, so a defensive war early on is with archers. This can be done, but why would you do it when you have alternatives?!

    Finally, OP said there was no shaka, but promptly surrounded us with 2 of the other 3 40 unitprob guys and then told us we can't DoW even though we are essentially the only eligible DoW target on the entire continent.

    This is not a map meant to be played peacefully. If you are en emperor player, playing peacefully = you lose. Immortal+ can win it peacefully, but with difficulty since doing that is playing badly on purpose.



    And due to the semi-deception of saying "no shaka, don't panic" in the OP, you don't get saves from me :p.

    Worker 1st researching AG is the painfully obvious initial action, by the way.
     
  3. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I've read the events page before, but I just read the page on events again:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236727

    The events that will be in each game are decided when the map is drawn up. EDIT: This means people playing the same map will have the same list of events.

    There is a base chance each turn that an event will happen. The chance is higher as you advance in ages. So, it is desirabel to advance through the ages quickly from this point of view.

    Some events have a 100 score on active. I take it this means theay are possible in every game. An example is event 20 Marathon. It has a weight of 800 which is a high weight compared to others. It triggers when "You at war with other Player, other player makes first attack on your plot". The result is a free golden age.

    Thats not exactly random and it leads to a certain playstyle.
     
  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :
    I never said it wouldnt be a challenge. I am trying to play games peacefully. Probably a bad rule but it seems to fail me.

    Perhaps I should be rolling out an early rush every game. Well maybe just the games where you get the war crazed Ai nearby or poor land.

    Having tried this start twice peacefully its not an issue of teching well as thats not hard with this start. I think the poor terrain and the horses push to a early chariot rush. There is iron to be had!


    Okay everyone play the map as you please and see how you do. Ignore the rules i laid down.
     
  5. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    To be fair I started the map before I decided to see how people on here would fare on the map.
     
  6. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Spoiler :
    I eneded up reading the spoiler, so whatever I do wont be fair. TBH however, I was planning on researching AH third after AG>Myst, so I will still do that and just go for HBR sooner rather than later. I still plan on MC from Oracle as well as Henge, and maybe Theo from a GP.

    To prove my point, what I am going to try to do is trigger the Marathon event. We shall see.
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    10AD (is there supposed to be a 1AD on Epic?)

    Spoiler :


    Granted, Gumbolt...my play probably is not going to give you any insights since you are a better player. Anyway, it's fun to try.

    Honestly, early war has not really crossed my mind. I finally switch to Judaism and OR to align with Sury and Nappy for now. Hopefully, keep Nappy of my back for a while but you never know with him. Also, working on getting my power rating up but it's not too bad. I have Lit and expect to start on the GL after Parth. With the GL and running a couple of scientist, I hope I can grab a good tech and take out Nappy or Rag. I'm thinking Rifling right now, but maybe earlier depending on how things go.

    Tech situation is not too bad. Surprisingly, Rag is behind in Tech and military. I haven't scouted him out yet but it seems he must be choked for land. I'm in the process of scouting more extensively now.

    I have Calendar in play now, but expect to switch out to Music soon and just trade for it. I think I blocked off decently but Nappy beat me to a spot just west of Cologne - so Cologne is not a great site now but windmills should help. I'm also in the process of backfilling. The land is pretty crapping to the southeast, but it will have to do. However, I think I will settle on the silver/horse/whales to the west of Frankfurt - hopefully before Nappy.

    Sushi could be a nice play with this map. I'll probably finish it out.



    TECH:



     
  8. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :


    Thats better than my effort. I had a 12 strong stack attack me just before 1ad on 2nd attempt. One of the tough issues for me was the Ai quickly got 10-11 cities compared to my 5-6. The GP farm was a minor issue. Marble would of been useful in terms of a lot of the wonders I tried to build.
     
  9. McThomas

    McThomas Creative Warrior

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    3 GOLD?!?!?!??! OMG!!! :O

    (sorry for "trolling")

    REALLY lucky start... but, my steam is hijacked (another reason to buy it retail)
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Spoiler :


    Interesting follow-up as I decided to play-on. I assume that 12 strong stack was Nappy. Not but 2 or 3 turns after 10AD and using my recently popped Great Spy to scout France, I noticed a rather large stack on the borders outside Munich (the iron/pig city to the SE of Berlin. Sure enough he attack the next turn. I held for the first wave but Nappy was spamming units big time and giving no quarter. Meanwhile, I whipping away in all the cities even Berlin which was in the process of building the GL. Nappy took my Munich on some BS odds with his next stack (I swear this game is rigged sometimes - my fortified/city axe could stand up to his non-CR axe - complete BS) I took Munich back on the next turn or so and have held up but can't sue for peace without giving up a city, so it's been war for some time. Mao DOW and I don't even know where he is. I bribe Sury into war with him and never even saw a Mao unit before getting peace.

    Nappy pretty much ruined the game though. I did get the GL. However, what once was a decent tech lead/parity has turned now fallen quite behind. However, I may be in the process of working up a horse archer rush to counter-attack.

    At the least, it is fun to play out just to deal with the war stuff, but it may be heard to really get back in the game - I don't know. Napolean with a lot of land is always a huge problem - and now he's sending jumbos my way.

     
  11. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :
    Perhaps this was a bad game to try a peaceful approach. It just annoys me I need to rush an Ai each game to get a win.

    This is actually a tough old save if you try to play peacefully. i think the honest truth is certain Ai need to be taken out near the start if they have metals/horse.
     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Spoiler :

    Well, again I assume we're talking about Napoleon. I played on a bit and it was useless. Wave after wave of units. He took Munich again with another large stack about to hit another city. Just ridiculous really. I guess the only play here is to just sue for peace and give up a city, but then the game is pretty much lost anyway.

    I agree that he just has to be taken out early. He had way to much land in this game. Granted if I had expand more aggressively to the west, instead of early wonder whoring, it may have been a different story - plus I would have had jumbos.

    I may try this one later at some point to try different options although the luster is always gone once you know the map.

     
  13. Molybdeus

    Molybdeus Prince

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    Unfortunately they can't be eliminated without punishing civs that start with Hunting.

    They have the same list of possible events, but will experience different events. One player may have the much maligned barbarian uprising event (basically an automatic loss with nothing you can do to prevent it) while another gets the exceptionally helpful truffles and tin events and cruises to an easy victory.

    The only good thing about them is that they weaken slavery, which probably had to happen somehow.

    Unfortunately(?) it's not possible to remove all randomness to the game, and I've chosen to deal with it. (With the exception of starting sites with gold, of course, which are an automatic map regeneration.) Other people have different tolerances for randomness, though, and I can understand that.
     
  14. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Scouts move 2 spaces. That is good for more than just popping huts.

    The bigger nerf to scouts is the illogical existence of animals, especially ones like panthers and bears which can surprise buttsecks you in about .1 second (panther via out of view snipe, bears via murdering you even on defensive terrain). Of course, warriors are not immune to supreme animals either.
     
  15. Molybdeus

    Molybdeus Prince

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    Of course they can also scout, but a major part of the attractiveness of starting with Hunting is that you may get some gold or a free tech out of it. I don't like starting with Hunting even with the bonus gold/techs. Take the potential bonuses away and it's terrible.

    You would have to make up for it somehow by boosting scouts. Perhaps +300% vs Animals instead of +100% would be fair.
     
  16. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

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    Played through a bit, given the requirements I was a bit shocked at the neighbours I found
    Spoiler :
    Ragnar on our doorstep, the French nearby and no option for pre-AD war? Not really the best map for a peaceful start, you don't necessarily have to rush, although Ragnar is going to be frustrating so close, but I can't really see leaving the French alone until the AD's. At the very least a worker steal and pillaging session would be useful to slow their expansion down

    However this was much less of an issue as I had my most successful scouting session I can ever remember and have popped 3 techs and 150 odd gold...

    With that kind of tech boost and spare cash before 3700BC the overwhelming choice is to take land via war. Since that isn't an option I'm a bit confused about how to approach this game. Will ponder this one at some point but probably have to wait for the weekend.

    I was originally thinking that huts and events wouldn't be too bad for comparism purposes once the game was flowing but I realise that if someone was to pop a couple of maps instead of the techs I got they'd be in a 60 turn tech hole compared to me which is exacerbated by me being able to get tiles online earlier (cottages for example), build wonders that otherwise would have been unreachable and possibly found a religion which I can spread to really boost a peaceful start.
     
  17. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

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    I'd rather see them have strength 2, it's not like they can attack anyway. I don't do it often myself but the inability to worker steal if the opportunity presents itself is enough of a disadvantage to make up for this if huts are off and would mean that they are slightly less pointless the moment human barbs appear (forest hill and warrior is odds on against an archer, for a scout they aren't even at parity with a barb warrior unless I've missed something).
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I dont think I ever intended this as a game series i just wanted to see what people would do. I think anyone who has managed to play this peacefully up to or around 10ad has done well or got very lucky. :)
     
  19. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

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    I'm quite enjoying this, the no war thing is making it tough to focus on what I'm doing though. Sometimes the map calls for peace and then my mind is set on that, however this map calls for war and every so often I slip into preparing for that. After this I think I might try some of the King of the World and RPC games to enjoy the challenge of being forced to play with certain rules/goals in mind.
     
  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :


    Its actually interesting if you move the capital west to the plains/hill with 2 corn and 1 pigs. This allows workers in 15 turns. I was able to knock out 4 cities by 2000bc with 5 or so workers. I lost focus and let the economy slip. Downside was a lot of poor to average cities because I forgot I needed an economy. Ooops lol

     

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