Germany halts Tom Cruise's Hitler film

So if some Islamic extremist believes its the will of God to destroy democracy then we should label Islam as a dangerous cult and treat it as a criminal organization?

Not Islam as a religion, but the radical organizations/sects he's associated with are dangerous and should be at least under surveillance.
In Scientology's case the Church of Scientology is this radical organization.
Are there any members of this "religion" who are not part of the Church of Scientology anyway ?
 
And the mainstream tenants of Scientology is to steal money and commit suicide?

No, it's to brainwash people so that they will give them money, and at the same time pushing them into depression and suicide.


What about when a religion brainwashes people and pushes them to suicide bomb crowded markets? Should the government step up and treat this whole religion like its a crime syndicate?

Again, Islam does not do this. Islamic extremists do.

Or else you also think that a religion brainwashes people into killing abortion doctors and bombing abortion clinics.
 
No, it's to brainwash people so that they will give them money, and at the same time pushing them into depression and suicide.

IMO, all religions are nothing but brainwashing to get people to do something. But people have a right to be mindless sheep for what ever bizarre fake voodoo they like as long as it doesn't bother the rest of us.

Or else you also think that a religion brainwashes people into killing abortion doctors and bombing abortion clinics.

Yup. So why aren't Christians considered members of a dangerous crime syndicate by the government?
 
IMO, all religions are nothing but brainwashing to get people to do something. But people have a right to be mindless sheep for what ever bizarre fake voodoo they like as long as it doesn't bother the rest of us.



Yup. So why aren't Christians considered members of a dangerous crime syndicate by the government?

Actually from my atheist perspective , the less organizations as this the better.
Unless you show my a practical benefit of a society that Scientology flourishes. As for rights , humans are sheep and Scientology is the wolf. And so are other organizations . But at this stage Sceintology can be handled upon. And besides Europe has progressed in a way that a good percentage of Christians other than the label "Christian " do not possess the unnatural attitudes that those who show obedience to all laws of a backwards religion would.
 
Unless you show my a practical benefit of a society that Scientology flourishes. As for rights , humans are sheep and Scientology is the wolf. And so are other organizations .

More often than not the government is the biggest wolf of them all.
 
IMO, all religions are nothing but brainwashing to get people to do something.

On this we can agree, but some religions are more harmful than others and in my opinion governments have the duty to protect weak-minded and labile citizens from these cults just like they protect them from certain drugs.
 
More often than not the government is the biggest wolf of them all.

But it is a necessary one. Maybe the goverment is a dog. The government may become a wolf. But i don't see how that may happen by prohibiting a new dangerous cult. The fact that this is a new cult is important , because old cults are impossible to handle and are already a part of (an efficient i would say) , society.
 
I'm pretty sure the activities of Westboro Baptist Church are closely watched by at least two federal agencies.

No doubt they are watched as well as certain Mosques.

But if the US government started publishing pamphlets titled "Why Islam is a dangerous cult" or "The dark truth about Christianity" then thats a whole other can of worms don't ya think?
 
No doubt they are watched as well as certain Mosques.

But if the US government started publishing pamphlets titled "Why Islam is a dangerous cult" or "The dark truth about Christianity" then thats a whole other can of worms don't ya think?

No doubt. However, the government publishing a study showing a strong correlation between scientology membership and suicide rates is far from the government publishing a pamphlet.
 
No doubt they are watched as well as certain Mosques.

But if the US government started publishing pamphlets titled "Why Islam is a dangerous cult" or "The dark truth about Christianity" then thats a whole other can of worms don't ya think?

Only because Islam and Christianity are part of the deep routs of today's society. And the fact that those are the two most popular belief systems.
But if Christianity was a small new cult ... And you were the goverment... And the Christians wouldn't serve the military or pay taxes. Then indeed this new cult would be a direct danger to the goverment and society and should be prohibited and destroyed one way or another.
 
Only because Islam and Christianity are part of the deep routs of today's society. And the fact that those are the two most popular belief systems.
But if Christianity was a small new cult ... And you were the goverment... And the Christians wouldn't serve the military or pay taxes. Then indeed this new cult would be a direct danger to the goverment and society and should be prohibited and destroyed one way or another.

And TBH that's pretty much what happened to Christianity until it was recognized by the Romans. They were a subversive cult, against any sort of government, and they were persecuted partly for that.
 
No doubt. However, the government publishing a study showing a strong correlation between scientology membership and suicide rates is far from the government publishing a pamphlet.

Propaganda is propaganda. I'm sure any government could come up damning statistics on any religion it doesn't like.
 
I understand that those who practice scientology see it as a religion, but anyone with a clear head can see it's a steaming pile, and not in the same sense as other major religions.

It's wrong for the German government to discriminate in this case, but anyone arguing that scientology is a "religion" on the same level as the other major religions needs to seriously rethink his definition of "religion". This is a thin layer of philosophical nonsense, covering a largely unethical and essentially criminal organization. The religion ignores the tradition and movement towards equality and tolerance, instead promoting distinction between its members and the general population, and pushing its own goals above even its own followers.

You can argue other religions do this too, but the difference is they are borne of centuries-old traditions that have slowly changed with the times, have changed the times themselves, and are still in the process of adapting themselves to the more liberal modern world. This "religion" was borne of that progressive world, and subsequently has denied central aspects in in order to establish what is effectively a pyramid scheme. Not to mention Jesus never talked about setting up a scam religion in order to make money (of course, it wouldn't be mentioned in the bible, but no accounts exist that would have been jumped upon by critics of the time, nor does it reflect the nature of his movement anyway).

Comparing scientology with Christianity in the respect that it is just being martyred as a new kid on the block is absurd: it is being attacked because it is engaging in illegal activities and attempting to establish an authority that is antagonistic to rationalism, democracy, and the rule of law.

And comparing this reaction to one against Islam because of an extremist element belies an understanding that extremist elements = Islam. It is mostly a religion of peace and brotherhood. Of course you wouldn't go after all of Islam for a few bad apples.

And that its followers should be allowed to find their own movement to follow like sheep, fine people should be free to do that. When their movement, however, engages in highly unethical hypnotic techniques used to abuse their followers and take their money and sanity, it crosses the line between harmless faith and criminal organization.

It is a testament to the power of PR and money on common sense and reason. A perfect religion for the modern era, but only in that it encapsulates the worst thereof.
 
Part of the problem with Scientology is that it's bordered on being a mafia-style brainwashing at time. Probably that aspect is something that scares the German government, just for the potential of being yet another extremist organization that unseats the government.

There's quite a few websites of anti-Scientology survivors. Try wikipedia.
Never ran into one myself, but the documentation of it convinced me that it was completely loco.

EDIT: My own opinion is that Scientology is a Psycho-techno-Theocractic personality cult with a strong sense of militancy and secret inner circles (and inner circles within inner circles) that outlived it's founding personality. Perhaps in a 100 years it'll become more liberal and a real religion. The only thing I could say in it's favor is that it doesn't do suicide bombers, at least not on national territories.

Well, according tothis documentary Scientology seems comparative to other religions. :D

On a side note. The video does say "This is what they really believe". I haven't read anything about Scientology. Is it even remotely like the real Scientology?
 
We're still talking about the German government not willing to let Cruise use their premises for a movie about Stauffenberg. I think that's perfectly fine.

Democracies have to learn to be intolerant to criminal organizations such as scientology.

Edit: In case of Cruise, it's even worse, since it's a wolf in sheep's clothes running about...
 
germany always allows films about ww2 and hitler, so there must be a good reason for not allowing tom cruise.
 
Great. All they need is a martyr start to make the leap to a more 'legitimate' religion.

Nonsense. It is not a religion, again, it's a sect. Sects are, by definition, closed and secretive. Scientology in particular uses its wealth to brainwash other people and defend its practice by its army of lawyers. Take away their money and isolate their leadership and they'll collapse in no time.
 
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