Gigglethorpe tries to defeat Monarch difficulty

[Gigglethorpe]

Hello! I've looked at your forums for a while, and I've played Civilization IV on and off since 2009, but this is my first post here. I've won a cultural victory on Monarch with Ragnar, but it was just before the AI could launch the spaceship.


Game Settings

Expansion-Warlords

Leader-Catherine of Russia

Creative is my favorite trait. Without it, you have to waste time building Monuments or Stonehenge, and lose out on tiles in border cities. Imperialistic may not be the best, but at least you get out the Settlers quicker. Cossacks are superior Cavalry, and Research Institutes can give you the edge in a Space Race.

Speed-Epic

Whenever I try to build an army on Normal speed, the units become obsolete too quickly.


Map-Pangaea, Low Sea Level, Standard Size

Let's keep it simple. Inland Sea gets repetitive after a while, and with Pangaea, you don't have to build much of a navy. Pangaea also presents the problem of being stuck on a peninsula between several AIs, and the experts on the board can give me advice in case that happens.


The screenshot shows my starting location. I moved the Scout a bit, and saw a goody hut, so I'll pick that up. Since I have seafood in my capital, I decided to research Fishing first and build a Warrior and then a Work Boat once I get the technology. Was that a good move?

Yes, Russia starts with Scouts, but whenever I make Scouts, they tend to die early to animals or barbarians. That, and Warriors negate the "Our city is undefended!" happiness penalty.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

You won't need a warrior for a while - build a worker and research agriculture and animal husbandry first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gigglethorpe]

As NobleZarkon suggested, I decided to build a worker first. So it seems that clams are a low priority if another food source is available.

I researched Agriculture, and started on Animal Husbandry. Shortly afterwards, Ieyasu Tokugawa decided to greet me with an archer from the north. There are six opponents on this map, and he's the only one I've met as of my current save. So the first person I've met is going to refuse to open borders until Pleased if I remember correctly. Great. Aggressive and Protective might make for a long slog if I have to fight against him later.

Hinduism was founded in 3580 BC, so there's probably a religious zealot AI on the field. Possibly only one that starts with Mysticism, as Buddhism has not been founded as of 3430 BC despite coming with a cheaper technology.

The land next to me doesn't seem spectacular to me, though there is a potential city site to the southeast of my capital that would start with stone and would have Fish after a border expansion. Maybe another city near the lakes could get the pigs? I can't look for horses or copper yet, so those will be other factors to consider a bit later. To the west of my capital is a small desert, and some plains with wine. The north from what I can see is mainly jungle and Calendar resources. Tokugawa can have that land for all I care!


The screenshots show Tokugawa and the land to the east of my capital.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

As NobleZarkon suggested, I decided to build a worker first. So it seems that clams are a low priority if another food source is available.

Extensive testing has shown that Worker first is almost always the best course, you have two food sources here so he can improve both if you get the right techs. You will need a Warrior after that - due to barbs though not the unhappiness, it will be a while before you have more unhappy than happy when you need a military policeman.

 

[Gigglethorpe]

Extensive testing has shown that Worker first is almost always the best course, you have two food sources here so he can improve both if you get the right techs. You will need a Warrior after that - due to barbs though not the unhappiness, it will be a while before you have more unhappy than happy when you need a military policeman.

The worker is done in my current save. I was just about to ask about what to build after that!

Now, I'm considering the tech tree. Fishing could take advantage of the clam, the fish tile for a possible second city, and the lakes to the east if I found a city near the pig.

Other alternatives include Archery to have better defenses against Barbarians, or Bronze Working, to chop down trees, look for copper, and get the Slavery civic. It seems too early to worry about Cottages and Granaries. If my second city uses the stone, of course I'll want Masonry.

The turns so far have been mostly uneventful; just moving my Woodsman II Scout around a bit. Tokugawa founded Buddhism in 3400 BC, and Japan doesn't even start with Mysticism! Maybe there is only one Mysticism civilization on the map. Maybe this means no Gandhi, Ashoka, Isabella, Wang Kon, Wang Kon, Montezuma, or Huayna Capac?

Chances are, the AIs were building Archers instead of Workers, because Moscow isn't even in the top 5 cities on the graph yet; all the rest are size 3, or 2 (in Tokugawa's case). Nobody built wonders either.

I'm playing much more conservatively than I usually do. Haste cost me many games of Civilization!

 

[Gigglethorpe]

Another update here!

Turns out Shaka is the second AI on the map. I found one of his units in the western desert and plains area. Ulundi ranks #3 on the top 5 cities, right above Kyoto. I researched Animal Husbandry, and there are horses in the eastern region with the small lakes. I can get both the pigs and the horses right away if I settle a city where I put the sign. The other city location would have stone and fish.

The west is desert and food-poor plains, and the north is worthless jungle, at least before Calendar. It seems like I should go east, and I haven't found any AIs in that direction to stop me.

How many Warriors should I build for barbarian protection? When would be the best time to build a Settler or another Worker? Should I research The Wheel next to build roads? (Especially on Epic where units move proportionately faster) Fishing? Bronze Working?

 

[Kjotleik]

It seems too early to worry about Cottages and Granaries.

It's never "too early" to start building cottages, though. If that is what you want for Moscow.

In fact, if you settled your 2nd and 3rd cities as helper-cities (1N 3W and 1N 3E, both compared to Moscow) you would be able to grow at least five cottages that your capital can take over once they mature.

The Oasis can be the food-source for the western city, while the eastern city can borrow (temporarily) the Rice from the capital to grow onto the grassland cottages.

Never mind if these cities don't make it big. Think of them more as "suburbs" than cities. And once Moscow takes over the cottages, these two can be heavily whipped for military units.

Now... if this is the best plan... I don't know. But at least it would get a lot of commerce rather quickly into Moscow. You may have other priorities, though. And maybe check with NobleZarkon first. He's probably got a good idea or two for you...

And about Granaries... um... whatever your plan is, getting half the previous growth-requirement as free food towards next growth is too good to pass up. If you build nothing else in a city... build a Granary! Few and far between are the cities you found that will not benefit from this.



Yours Sincerely
Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Kjotleik]

How many Warriors should I build for barbarian protection?

One unit denies the spawn of barbarians two tiles away. That means with a unit in the middle spot, a 5x5 area is safe. Just look at your lands, and you can easily calculate how many you need for 100% safety.


Yours Sincerely
Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Gigglethorpe]

In fact, if you settled your 2nd and 3rd cities as helper-cities (1N 3W and 1N 3E, both compared to Moscow) you would be able to grow at least five cottages that your capital can take over once they mature.

Wouldn't the 1N 3W location be terrible, since so many of its tiles would be desert, and the only food resource available being a plains cow?

 

[Kjotleik]

Wouldn't the 1N 3W location be terrible, since so many of its tiles would be desert, and the only food resource available being a plains cow?

It will never grow to a full 20-size city anyway, so you only need to count the tiles the city will actually work.

Since it would (if I were playing this game) be used as a "suburb" of Moscow, growing the capital's cottages, and then being used to whip military, it would rarely see it's size grow beyond six population.

PS!
The Oasis is a 3F tile!


Yours Sincerely
Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Never mind if these cities don't make it big. Think of them more as "suburbs" than cities. And once Moscow takes over the cottages, these two can be heavily whipped for military units.

Now... if this is the best plan... I don't know. But at least it would get a lot of commerce rather quickly into Moscow. You may have other priorities, though. And maybe check with NobleZarkon first. He's probably got a good idea or two for you...

Agree with everything you say

 

[Gigglethorpe]

Quite a few developments for my readers this time!

I found a few more AIs. My scout encountered a unit of Cyrus's in the western region, and one of Mansa Musa's Skirmishers was wandering around to the east of my capital. I confirmed that Shaka's borders were northwest of mine, but not close enough to be a threat yet. Nobody close is in the north, although I suspect that Tokugawa is near the northern coast of the Pangaea.

Mansa Musa is likely the only AI with Bronze Working so far, since he is the only one with the Slavery civic. I know that Shaka has The Wheel because one of his workers was building a road to connect his gems at the border. Shaka has met the same AIs that I've met, and possibly more. Cyrus and Tokugawa have not made first contact, so they're probably very far from each other. Cyrus is Pleased with Shaka, and everyone is Annoyed with Mansa Musa except for Cyrus. Mansa Musa repays that by being Annoyed with Cyrus!

Either way, Mansa Musa is attracting most of the hate in the world, and I'm OK with that! Having that many enemies means fewer opportunities to trade techs with everyone. I have not met the founder of Hinduism yet, and only Tokugawa has a religion so far. Isolationist policy + religious strategy? That's a sure way to make everyone think you're an infidel, Tokugawa! (Does Tokugawa refuse to open borders with other AIs too? Or is it just the human player?)

I went for The Wheel because that's a prerequisite for Pottery anyway. And the big question is: Pottery or Bronze Working? I have a lot of trees near my capital, but Kjotleik has a fondness for cottages.

 

[Gigglethorpe]

¡Hola!

I have another update, even if it is a minor one.

I decided to go for Bronze Working instead of Pottery for now. I think I'll need to chop out a few Workers and Settlers given all the trees near my capital.

I built a few Warriors to watch for barbarians, and one is staying in my capital for the happiness bonus. Moscow is at size 4, so should I continue to build Warriors or build a Worker or a Settler? The only cultural borders I've seen so far are Shaka's, and he doesn't seem eager to expand eastward.

One of Napoleon's units came from the west to greet me. The French AIs in general give me a hard time, and Napoleon in particular. I've played on one island map where he declared war on me one or two turns after I met him!

Isabella founded Hinduism, and her capital of Madrid is the strongest city in the world now. She's going to be Tokugawa's greatest enemy, and I may convert if she spreads her religion to me.

No one has asked me to open borders yet, so chances are that none of the AIs has Writing. Shaka has Bronze Working since he switched to Slavery. Does he build a lot of Impis on Monarch, or does he still rely on Archers like most of the other AIs? That would be good to know if I decide to build Axemen or Swordsmen later.

 

[Revent]

Can we see what your planet/continent looks like overall? Screenshots of Isabella and Napoleon aren't very useful for giving advice!

 

[Gigglethorpe]

Can we see what your planet/continent looks like overall? Screenshots of Isabella and Napoleon aren't very useful for giving advice!

Here's some pictures for clarification. They're named for their position in relation to the capital. I am on the southern coast of a Pangaea.

 

[SpK]

Shaka will build against his WE on Monarch, so likely expect Impi and Axe.

Time to decide if you want to lead the war against Mansa or start weakening Toku and gift/trade enough to get some allies when you are ready to finish him.

Personally i like to weaken Toku ASAP cause I can usually start a religious war (or series of small religion fueled engagements) against him and secure future allies

In addition to pics, a save file would allow more tailored advice

 

[Gigglethorpe]

Shaka will build against his WE on Monarch, so likely expect Impi and Axe.

Time to decide if you want to lead the war against Mansa or start weakening Toku and gift/trade enough to get some allies when you are ready to finish him.

Personally i like to weaken Toku ASAP cause I can usually start a religious war (or series of small religion fueled engagements) against him and secure future allies

In addition to pics, a save file would allow more tailored advice

Good point.

I'll upload my save now.

Neither Tokugawa nor Mansa Musa are close to me, which complicates things. I think going after Tokugawa seems like the best option, because he'll attract religious hate from Isabella and his isolationist policies won't get him any allies.

 

[Revent]

Good point.

I'll upload my save now.

Neither Tokugawa nor Mansa Musa are close to me, which complicates things. I think going after Tokugawa seems like the best option, because he'll attract religious hate from Isabella and his isolationist policies won't get him any allies.

You have a fair amount of space for peaceful expansion. You built a mine which was completely useless btw, outside the capitals BFC for some reason. You should start building settlers now I think.

 

[Gigglethorpe]

So I followed Revent's advice and made two Settlers, and sent them to Kjotleik's "suburb" locations.

When I researched Bronze Working, it turned out that there was Copper one tile south of my capital! I immediately connected it, of course.

St. Petersburg (the oasis city) was cranking out Warriors to guard the western and northern regions. After founding my third city, I decided to build more Workers to connect the cities and chop some trees. I thought Isabella was going to be a reliable ally this game, and then she builds a city in my face! Maybe I should have checked out the northeastern part of the jungle a bit more in retrospect. Her capital can't be in the jungle, because it's size 9!

Napoleon has a city in the northern border of the jungle to claim the. . .dye? Unless he cheated and picked up Calendar, that city is going to be useless to him for a while. I think Sullla talked about this in one of the AI Survivor games where the AI builds cities wherever a resource is available, regardless of whether they can use it or not.

Tokugawa is surprisingly popular among the AIs. Maybe it's the "peace weight" score that Sullla talks about, because Shaka, Napoleon, and Cyrus are Pleased with him. Cyrus converted to Hinduism, only for Isabella to research Monotheism and convert to Judaism. Mansa Musa's worst enemy is Napoleon, and he's absolutely correct that he "can't be trusted", given some of my previous games with him.


I went for Pottery because Kjotleik likes Cottages and then Fishing, because it was cheap, and now I'm researching Writing. None of the AIs have made Open Borders requests yet, so none of them (except for maybe Tokugawa) have it.

What should I do now that Isabella has thrown a monkey wrench into the "expand peacefully" plan?

 

[Revent]

You still have plenty of land for peaceful settling.