Gilgamesh of Sumeria (Deity Fractal)

[soundjata]

T99 report and I can take a look at Krikav's

Spoiler :

On turn 88 we do these trades

the latter makes Sully happy

Ragnar and Washee demand I stop trading with their worse enemy => -1 diplo each.
I need to pick sides !

T98 one more turn to currency as the economy becomes un-manageable.
All cities on research (few granaries)

No more city is possible after Illinois (and I had to reload by this consideration)

So game will become easy next turn
Oh look at Ragnar he has a stack.

Washi took the gold city before me

One turn later...
A new and exciting situation appears

It's all in the bottom left corner.
1. Suleiman is now a (peace) vassal of Washington
2. Vikings are plotting.
(3. Ur waters have been poisoned by Wash. Dude ?)

War should come quick, seeing he has a stack ready and near borders.
If it is on me, GG I suppose
If it is Washington then game's on

Update

Spoiler :

it's me. I lose

 

[krikav]

@soundjata

Spoiler :

You could reload to when you got access to alpha, and gift Ragnar something to get pleased.
Or perhaps even give him the barb city?

Being the target is much less likely at pleased.

 

[soundjata]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

It is very good that you have a couple of great scientists available (math + alpha bulbs)
Were are they please show

I like that you still have several forests at that point. Strike Nidaros with 28473 horse archers?

At first glance it looks like you are in a fine position to brutalize some AI but then what is the purpose of these 2 settlers?
?

edit: sorry I read you post more carefully you've explained that you may aim at gold. I'm fearing for your economy but I also can see you got a bunch of cottages so it could be good

editt: Maybe your settlers should be looking for forests (aka production)
20 forests = 600 hammers = 10 war elephants

 

[konata_LS]

Ragnar has 2 happy resources but isn't willing to trade.

IIRC AI Ragnar trades extra happy resources at Friendly.

Spoiler :

Interesting to see an approach that delays BW. But your capital has not many forests, so probably Pot-Writing is better for the early .

T99 report and I can take a look at Krikav's

Spoiler :

400BC Feudalism.... Deity is insane
Sully probably has a cramped start, as normally an Imperialist Deity AI wouldn't have only 4 cities in 400BC.
Agree with krikav, no shame for reloading. An early DoW from warmonger is mostly pure back luck.

Spoiler T98 :

a workboat found Nappys border and isabellas boat, looks like they are on a separate but huge continent.

Spoiler :

GJ finding some overseas AIs intercontinental trade routes is super nice.
Given that no AI has Marble and Izzy is slowed down by Nappy, GLib seems secured .
Maybe some dogpile opportunities...? as Once Ragnar and Wash start killing each other, they might ask you to join their war.

 

[soundjata]

T116

Spoiler :

We gave Ragnar a tribute (Aesthetics) on T98, which made him pleased so he did not start plotting on us T99
He started plotting soon anyway and now his stack is immobile in his gold city.

So we keep playing the eco game.
After Currency, Litterature (failed attempt towards GL & Music) then Priesthood, trade Currency for Monarchy and Calendar.
Now we've just researched Code of Law, which has mediocre trade value.

No one has Bureaucracy.
We could get it in 7 turns provided moneys pours out of nowhere
There is some failgold in preparation (~300 in Parthenon).

Ziggurats are being built left and right and we are currently dominating Washington on the spy points (6/2)
The new american Fish city (Buffalo is the name) is conveniently placed for some James Bond action

We also (but too late) started focusing on the mysterious island (my scout went past that without realizing the implications -.-)
I sent a chariot who contacted Nappy
(Hello Napz. You hate me because Washington? Take this Litterature excellent technology and be my friend.)
There's a boat on the way to mysterious Spain.

Now I can grow Sumerian population around nanners and on the glorious coast north east.
Hurray for an early bunch of vultures

 

[krikav]

I started over and tried to make a run with no tech trading.
Low sea level seems like it favours early warfare more, and I think NTT might make for a longer and more interesting slugfest... Thats the idea anyway.

Spoiler Fresh start, NTT on :

Ragnar founded Hindu and judaism and built both henge and oracle... that was unexpected.

Delayed settler until pop4, and did not waste time roading too much to second city, it gets connected at borderpop through the coast anyway.

Utilizing map knowledge to make the contacts I want early on, a warrior unfogged the coast to Wash and met Sullieman.
First workboat is sent directly to Nappy and only second one nets the fish.

I partially built a road to Ragnar to help his missionaries, but when he started plotting my warrior north of the iron pillaged the road to buy me more time. I thought the horned fiend was comming for me, but turns out it was Washington.

Wash took this barb city, and I had vultures ready so I put the dagger in his back and took it.
This city traded hands multiple times after that, to Wash again, then ragnar, then wash, then me... Eventually I gifted a newly settled city further north for peace once Ragnar chickened out and I spawned my second GGeneral.

Spoiler T113 situation :

I tried (and trying) to be greedy with land.
Not used to NTT, but I think more land is even more important than normally, since you can't really bunnyjump ahead with savvy techtrading.
Multiple helper and fillerspots can be settled after the landgrabbing phase is done.

Not sure what to go for in tech now. Went IW rather early for the gems, math->currency->calendar is done now.
Two GGenerals in capital means I want to spam units there... Aestethics->Litterature for heroic right away? HBR so I can build something more useful than vultures?
Poly->Mono->Monarchy for the civics and then perhaps casting to get forges done asap?
Machinery afterwards for supercharged protective xbows? Both wash and Ragnar will have huge stacks soon so any type of attack in any era is bound to happen with siege.

Ragnar has holy cities, juda shrine and MoM. Wash has GLH and Pyramids, so there is yummy options plenty.

 

[soundjata]

@krikav

Spoiler :

I think I would go construction

 

[krikav]

Do you think you'll be able to keep up in techs, though ? It seems to me you're making the game considerably harder on yourself, there

Almost certainly I cant keep up.
But maybe I can keep up enough to stay relevant militarily...?
Harder likely. But perhaps less frustrating?

 

[krikav]

@soundjata Im not sure... they will start to mass suck crazy stacks that perhaps a late construction attack isnt sturdy enough.
Might need a medieval doomball.

 

[krikav]

The game is fun, but tech trading can be tedious imho. You have to continue to shop for options... And you blaze over some eras.

I went construction first (for capital with 2 settled GGenerals to start humming our high-xp siege).
Then poly->mono->monarchy for HR+OR and to spread religion.
Then MC to start working on forges.
Working on HBR now, but after that I think I'll try to go machinery+engineering and see if I can assemble a doomstack.

Got two barb cities up north! One loaded with 5 (!) workers.

Spoiler Screenshots :

Nappy provides silver so the forge trio is complete.
Got very high happycap now.

Northern conquest.
I settled a city on the eastern coast too, grabbing plains cow, desert iron and a clam. Chopping out galley+2triremes there now, thinking I'll settle the island too.
Got alot of helper cities to settle too... but maybe I'm overodoing the expansion?

Didn't show tech because noone had alpha, still noone has it so I can't see what they know.

Spoiler Tech situation (worldbuildered myself alpha a quickie) :

They are not advancing too rapidly, only ragnar at engineering so far.
I just have to start making serious progress toward either Ragnar or Washington before they get rifling/cuirs/grenadiers I think. If I can manage that, making the next jump at infantry/artillery should be doable, no?

 

[soundjata]

@krikav

Spoiler :

Goal is to war with one of Ragz / Whash against the other I suppose. Then quick progress might be achieved
But without tech trading I don't think bribes are affordable, are they ?

 

[krikav]

I tried to just develop, grow in size and run a nice GA with high pop cities... But no... They where running too fast for me.
When I was just about ready to make a run for Washington, he got cuirs... when I was inching in on steel/grenadiers to somewhat counter that, he had rifling.

Bella DoWed Ragnar and they never signed peace, so got no help from him either...

Harder than I thought! I thought the NTT would slow them down more too...

 

[soundjata]

Xpost with BIC
Because Low Sea, one probably has to have either of:
- A high commerce base, so as to be competitive in the tech race (and strike at a favorable moment cuir or cannons)
- The ability to goble up a neighbour quickly to be on par with 15 cities AIs.
- Luck with diplomacy, like it would be the case in my game if Ragnar attacks Washingtoon.

Edit: Or maybe a couple of great spies à la @drewisfat but you need stone for that

 

[soundjata]

^ Yeah although one could make a case for Vulturizing Washington

 

[krikav]

I might give it a new go with tech trading on then. But will micro the start more.

 

[soundjata]

Also Settle On Coast Good ?

 

[krikav]

With map knowledge, that option might be the correct one even. The island is nice, and overseas traderoutes with the others are very good!

 

[Fish Man]

I'm too burnt out to try this map until after some long break, but based on @Henrik75 's recent videos and catapult discovery, would caveman strats work?

Spoiler :

We could try to elepult Rags, and then brute-force-engineering Washington and SIllyman. With the newfound catapult knowledge, we now know that trebs and knights are definitely viable against rifles, so we can just treb them both to death in a slow grind. After having 40+ cities to ourselves on this continent, we can go to space or build 200 tanks to finish the job. It wouldn't matter if they have modern armor or whatever; we can just completely roll the other continent over with sheer volume. A bit idealistic, but it could work, no? .

 

[Fish Man]

@Coastal capital :
It would probably translate into 4 inland cities (copper+rice) before committing to Galley + double Workboat (110H),
Which could prove beneficial if it means more workers to improve the land. Delaying the offshore investment should improve the land eco.

Reaching Fishing + Pottery in a timely manner is still a stake.
Offhand, I see Sailing coming after Pottery.

Also, I see the fast Library as being a trap. Backfilling Hunting after Writing is a real possibility.

@Fish Man:
Invading Ragnar first cuts your trade routes to like 30+ overseas cities. Not my preferred route
Please gives us details on your catapult strats ? Macemen City Raider III are not Gundpowder units and, thus, can redrum Rifles/Infantries ?

So Henrik discovered recently that barrage catapults, despite certainly dying to things like rifles, always do more collateral damage than trebs because of their higher base strength. They're dirt-cheap at that stage of the game too, so you just need to sac like 5-6 per city to take on even things like Sitting Bull's superrifles, before you get decent or winning odds with trebs, then maces and knights. He demonstrated this in his recent live games, where he rushed protective rifles while having no gunpowder units of his own and handily won with trebs/knights, and then won with samurai vs infantry using the barrage trick. He did the former on deity and the latter only on immortal, but even on immortal, as big of a difference as trebs vs infantry and machine guns proves the strategy viable. This is revolutionary because, previously, people had pretty much thought you needed cannons + rifles or at the very very least trebs + rifles to fight opposing rifles, but now, it turns out that you can get away with quite a bit less.

 

[krikav]

I doubt that it would work, it's true that catapults and collateral can make magical things happen. But you really need the numbers then, it's a huge differeance battling a 8city AI and a 15 city one.
Also, you have the problem with stack protection too.

Early library a trap?
I like the early library!