Gilgamesh of Sumeria (Deity Fractal)

krikav

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@soundjata
Spoiler :

You could reload to when you got access to alpha, and gift Ragnar something to get pleased.
Or perhaps even give him the barb city?

Being the target is much less likely at pleased.
 

BornInCantaloup

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"Passing through !" (T71) :
Spoiler :


Good guy Ragnar putting in the work. Go, Ragnar, go !
Woody 2 is still exploring to the SE, trying to unlock the Ottoman network.
Chariot and Workboat went North, meeting Napoleon along the way.
Uruk has completed its Library and an Archer (Growing 5->6). Now all cities are slowbuilding at/close to happy cap.
Ragnar has 2 happy resources but isn't willing to trade.
One of my two workers started roading to the NE a while ago. Maybe I'll settle the gold.
Eridu has done all workboats. It appears the western island has double clams.


Turn 73 :
Spoiler :


HBR next turn, I'm ready to take the hit from my incoming settlers (kinda), since I can now hope for an Alphabet trade (nobody known has it).
Workboat has reached its destination in the West. Needs to decide wether to go North or South.
I'm a little short on worker turns to reach the gold. Actually, I feel very short on worker turns, here. Working some forests to avoid delay my builds.
I've retreated most of my fogbusting units inside my borders to garrison/save money.
 

soundjata

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@BornInCantaloup
Spoiler :
It is very good that you have a couple of great scientists available (math + alpha bulbs)
Were are they please show :groucho:

I like that you still have several forests at that point. Strike Nidaros with 28473 horse archers?

At first glance it looks like you are in a fine position to brutalize some AI but then what is the purpose of these 2 settlers?
:banana: ?

edit: sorry I read you post more carefully you've explained that you may aim at gold. I'm fearing for your economy but I also can see you got a bunch of cottages so it could be good :D

editt: Maybe your settlers should be looking for forests (aka production)
20 forests = 600 hammers = 10 war elephants :drool:
 
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BornInCantaloup

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Were are they please show :groucho:
I might be late in that department :lol:

Quick update at T80 :
Spoiler :
This is Ze Grab, settled this turn. Ragnar has another stack. He might actually capture a city :thumbsup:
I have my first two worker around there.
Spoiler :


This is my main. 5th city was settled this turn.
Some build items, I'm not too sure about. Library in Eridu ? Granary or Worker first in Lagash ? I have 2 workers in that area as well. I need to keep up with worker count :
Spoiler :


Alphabet I can trade with Washington this turn. I need Mining -> Bronze. I need whips & chops.
I've met Isabella on the other Island but I'm still a little short on trade routes. Also trade network with the Ottomans is lacking.
Most cottages are hamlets at this point. Slowrolling my expansion until I could trade worked out.

I'm not in a position to take out any AI. Not without Granaries, Barracks, a workforce, not without places to settle.
This is a tentative dotmap. I want to reduce overlap as much as possible.
Spoiler :

I probably want to Grab first and Backfill second.
I've read your discussions and I agree that Currency is the next big target. First, I want to unlock the trade for Monarchy, though.
We're looking at 10 cities with this dotmap. It's possible Ziggurats will get some use.

And then there's that :
Spoiler :


I haven't really found the northern coast.
As far as diplo goes, I want to befriend Ragnar and take out America -> Ottomans. I think it makes sense, especially if I can have him as a Friendly war partner.
It's more of a long-term plan than anything else, but it makes me want to keep expanding North as much as I can.
 

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konata_LS

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Ragnar has 2 happy resources but isn't willing to trade.

IIRC AI Ragnar trades extra happy resources at Friendly. :viking:
Spoiler :

Interesting to see an approach that delays BW. But your capital has not many forests, so probably Pot-Writing is better for the early :commerce:.


T99 report and I can take a look at Krikav's :D
Spoiler :

400BC Feudalism.... Deity is insane :crazyeye:
Sully probably has a cramped start, as normally an Imperialist Deity AI wouldn't have only 4 cities in 400BC.
Agree with krikav, no shame for reloading. An early DoW from warmonger is mostly pure back luck.


Spoiler T98 :

a workboat found Nappys border and isabellas boat, looks like they are on a separate but huge continent.
Spoiler :

GJ finding some overseas AIs :goodjob: intercontinental trade routes is super nice.
Given that no AI has Marble and Izzy is slowed down by Nappy, GLib seems secured :cool:.
Maybe some dogpile opportunities...? as Once Ragnar and Wash start killing each other, they might ask you to join their war.
 

soundjata

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T116
Spoiler :
We gave Ragnar a tribute (Aesthetics) on T98, which made him pleased so he did not start plotting on us T99 :love:
He started plotting soon anyway and now his stack is immobile in his gold city. :confused:

So we keep playing the eco game.
After Currency, Litterature (failed attempt towards GL & Music) then Priesthood, trade Currency for Monarchy and Calendar.
Now we've just researched Code of Law, which has mediocre trade value.

No one has Bureaucracy.
We could get it in 7 turns provided moneys pours out of nowhere :cool:
There is some failgold in preparation (~300:hammers: in Parthenon).

Ziggurats are being built left and right and we are currently dominating Washington on the spy points (6/2)
The new american Fish city (Buffalo is the name) is conveniently placed for some James Bond action :)

We also (but too late) started focusing on the mysterious island (my scout went past that without realizing the implications -.-)
I sent a chariot who contacted Nappy
(Hello Napz. You hate me because Washington? Take this Litterature excellent technology and be my friend.)
There's a boat on the way to mysterious Spain.

Now I can grow Sumerian population around nanners and on the glorious coast north east.
Hurray for an early bunch of vultures :ninja:
 

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BornInCantaloup

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@soundjata :
I wanted to keep the map "on theme", hence
Spoiler :
My emphasis on early exploration. Sorry your scout missed the workboats - you got in in the right place at the right time. Didn't want to screw any one of you after spending 10 hours playing the map.
You know I did a quick worldbuilder check when selecting the map ;) (I hope you know ; if you didn't now you do)


IIRC AI Ragnar trades extra happy resources at Friendly. :viking:
Indeed, techs at Pleased, happies at Friendly :o
 

krikav

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I started over and tried to make a run with no tech trading.
Low sea level seems like it favours early warfare more, and I think NTT might make for a longer and more interesting slugfest... Thats the idea anyway.


Spoiler Fresh start, NTT on :


Ragnar founded Hindu and judaism and built both henge and oracle... that was unexpected. :D

Delayed settler until pop4, and did not waste time roading too much to second city, it gets connected at borderpop through the coast anyway.
Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG


Utilizing map knowledge to make the contacts I want early on, a warrior unfogged the coast to Wash and met Sullieman.
First workboat is sent directly to Nappy and only second one nets the fish.
Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG



I partially built a road to Ragnar to help his missionaries, but when he started plotting my warrior north of the iron pillaged the road to buy me more time. I thought the horned fiend was comming for me, but turns out it was Washington.
Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG


Wash took this barb city, and I had vultures ready so I put the dagger in his back and took it.
This city traded hands multiple times after that, to Wash again, then ragnar, then wash, then me... Eventually I gifted a newly settled city further north for peace once Ragnar chickened out and I spawned my second GGeneral.
Civ4ScreenShot0016.JPG





Spoiler T113 situation :


I tried (and trying) to be greedy with land.
Not used to NTT, but I think more land is even more important than normally, since you can't really bunnyjump ahead with savvy techtrading.
Multiple helper and fillerspots can be settled after the landgrabbing phase is done.

Not sure what to go for in tech now. Went IW rather early for the gems, math->currency->calendar is done now.
Two GGenerals in capital means I want to spam units there... Aestethics->Litterature for heroic right away? HBR so I can build something more useful than vultures?
Poly->Mono->Monarchy for the civics and then perhaps casting to get forges done asap?
Machinery afterwards for supercharged protective xbows? Both wash and Ragnar will have huge stacks soon so any type of attack in any era is bound to happen with siege.

Ragnar has holy cities, juda shrine and MoM. Wash has GLH and Pyramids, so there is yummy options plenty.

Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG


Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG







 

krikav

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:bowdown::woohoo:
Do you think you'll be able to keep up in techs, though ? It seems to me you're making the game considerably harder on yourself, there :groucho:

Almost certainly I cant keep up.
But maybe I can keep up enough to stay relevant militarily...?
Harder likely. But perhaps less frustrating?
 

krikav

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@soundjata Im not sure... they will start to mass suck crazy stacks that perhaps a late construction attack isnt sturdy enough.
Might need a medieval doomball.
 

BornInCantaloup

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But perhaps less frustrating?
Hum... I didn't realize your first go around would be frustrating. Sorry about that, I hoped it would be exciting:coffee:
@soundjata Im not sure... they will start to mass suck crazy stacks that perhaps a late construction attack isnt sturdy enough.
Might need a medieval doomball.
Agreed, if you need a larger mass of units because tech parity, then you need to be able to support a higher upkeep. REx first, then war. Not sure where that takes you, down the tech tree.
That jungle belt is a very real handicap to NTT.
Opportunities for shared war may arise, still.
Once you start warring, it's convenient to be able to keep doing so. Warring, stopping, warring again is not convenient.

Good luck !

Tech path : How about you go Caste and pop at least 1 Great Merchant (if not more) ? Is it reasonable to spend time at 0% research to fund yourself ?
No Tech Trades, aren't Merchants >>> Scientists ? (It's spread accross several turns but the science yield is / should be higher, yes ?)
Then you could conceivably run 100% research towards Civil Service and Engineering.
You didn't show the AIs techs but I think I can spot a Viking Longbow.

With Gold and Gems, Metal Casting is defendable vs Monarchy as a Happy tech. It's also on track to military techs. Monarchy unlocks Feud, that is good but likely comes later.
 
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krikav

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The game is fun, but tech trading can be tedious imho. You have to continue to shop for options... And you blaze over some eras.

I went construction first (for capital with 2 settled GGenerals to start humming our high-xp siege).
Then poly->mono->monarchy for HR+OR and to spread religion.
Then MC to start working on forges.
Working on HBR now, but after that I think I'll try to go machinery+engineering and see if I can assemble a doomstack.

Got two barb cities up north! One loaded with 5 (!) workers. :D

Spoiler Screenshots :

Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG


Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

Nappy provides silver so the forge trio is complete.
Got very high happycap now.
Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG

Northern conquest.
I settled a city on the eastern coast too, grabbing plains cow, desert iron and a clam. Chopping out galley+2triremes there now, thinking I'll settle the island too.
Got alot of helper cities to settle too... but maybe I'm overodoing the expansion?

Didn't show tech because noone had alpha, still noone has it so I can't see what they know.
Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG





Spoiler Tech situation (worldbuildered myself alpha a quickie) :


They are not advancing too rapidly, only ragnar at engineering so far.
I just have to start making serious progress toward either Ragnar or Washington before they get rifling/cuirs/grenadiers I think. If I can manage that, making the next jump at infantry/artillery should be doable, no?
Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG

 

soundjata

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@krikav
Spoiler :
Goal is to war with one of Ragz / Whash against the other I suppose. Then quick progress might be achieved :confused:
But without tech trading I don't think bribes are affordable, are they ? :mischief:
 

BornInCantaloup

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:o:o:o
Ragnar has Music. They all have Feud. You'll face Macemen before your first war is over.
Suleiman did not get boxed in, this time, and he'll have Pikes/Knights. So, you do need the unit mass for sure.
You're Friendly with Rag and he's likely to DoW Washington again. I think that's the redeeming part.
If you can manage Washington -> Suleiman, then you can probably complete the map at a later era, yes. Unless somebody totally runs away in the West.

No bribing, no, no tech extortion either, since they all happen in the Diplomacy menu. Espionage, yes.
The Hannibal map :drool: would be better suited for NTT, at least it has easy commerce.
 
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krikav

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I tried to just develop, grow in size and run a nice GA with high pop cities... But no... They where running too fast for me.
When I was just about ready to make a run for Washington, he got cuirs... when I was inching in on steel/grenadiers to somewhat counter that, he had rifling.

Bella DoWed Ragnar and they never signed peace, so got no help from him either...

Harder than I thought! I thought the NTT would slow them down more too...
 

BornInCantaloup

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Well, thanks for your feedback anyway.
I thought the NTT would slow them down more too...
NTT will slow them but will typically slow down "Tech Broker Extraordinaire" (aka Player) more.

I think this is a deceiptively slow start (which makes it interesting to me). It looks good and strong on the surface :
We have a 2H city tile, a 6 yield tile to improve, some other specials, an even better city 2 but then :
Our best food tile is 4F in the capital : slow growth
The start is extremely tech hungry : we want all of Sailing, Pottery, AH, Writing, Bronze... Ouch !
The start is very hammer hungry : we want workboats and a galley.
The start is very cramped due to the closeness of jungle : the number of tiles we can easily improve is very low and inland cities 3-4 are huge steps down in quality.

By 1000 BC, I think Soundjata had 6 cities (which is barely standard) while both of us had 5 (which is well below standard when we're not boxed in). edit : actually, I had 4 cities at that point (and 2 workers).
It's also a tell (deceiptively slow start) that the three of us went for different tech paths.
I think the sum of those conditions makes NTT an extra difficulty that would prove very hard to overcome (I'd start with CoL to gain gold from trade mission, then focus on either MC or CS, then the other of the two - having a viable eco is priority number 1).
More ideal conditions for NTT would include a FIN leader, the ability to go Bronze -> Pottery and large swaths of riverside to cottage (low tech, low hammer investment).
We're as far from those conditions as can be.
 
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soundjata

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Xpost with BIC :D
Because Low Sea, one probably has to have either of:
- A high commerce base, so as to be competitive in the tech race (and strike at a favorable moment cuir or cannons)
- The ability to goble up a neighbour quickly to be on par with 15 cities AIs.
- Luck with diplomacy, like it would be the case in my game if Ragnar attacks Washingtoon.

Edit: Or maybe a couple of great spies à la @drewisfat but you need stone for that :D
 
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