Girl Problems? Ask

[Lotus49]

Why do girls like so much guys who dance? I can't dance, no matter what. I tried lots of times and all I got was everyone laughing at me and saying I was being hilarious.

Think about it. Think about what you just wrote. Then think about "why they like it so much."

 

[Mirc]

I don't get it

 

[jimbob27]

Wait buddist beating you for not going to the temple. Are you sure this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

It was supposed to be a joke for the civ4 players

 

[soul_warrior]

I don't get it

the key word is "hilarious".
for some reason chicks dig funny guys.
ofcourse it wouldnt hurt if youre built like a greek god, but if youre not, a good sense of humour with a touch of unselfconciousness and a willingness to make fun of yourself will help a lot
*godarn, now theres a looong word

 

[Lotus49]

I don't get it

They're putting you in an awkward, challenging situation - where you're off you're game, and have no advantages. It's an insecurity thing. Deep down, women are extremely insecure. If they can somhow find a circumstance that makes you feel the same, then that 'levels the playing field'.

Some people (women included) do just like to dance, though. But, even for most of those women, it's a hobby that's really founded upon 'turning the tables' by creating an awkward situation for you.

That's why when you 'go on a date' -in general- you're expected to do something wierd/different/spontaneous/risky/etc. ...same premise; to take you out of your security zone (thus the playing field is equaled, if not them having an advantage), for their personal entertainment. They enjoy seeing you in this way, pure and simple. "Breaking down the man", boosts them up. Even if just a little bit, here and there.

That's really the foundation of these relationships... give and take. Due to her weaknesses, in order to be equal, you have to take a greater step down that she does. Thus, whether it be historical fact or myth, the concept behind the 'Garden of Eden' legend, starts to become clearly apparent.

Strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps that's really all there is in life, when you break it down far enough. Women are indeed weaker, thus it's no great trip to understand why things unfold the way they do...

 

[Shaihulud]

Any man can dance to something, you just need to know the songs that you can and cannot dance to. I also vouch that dance is great for attracting the attention of women, hot women who wouldn't give you a second look normally starts coming onto you when you dance. My problem with women is that im poor at making small talk.

 

[C~G]

Women are indeed weaker, thus it's no great trip to understand why things unfold the way they do...

And that's why we are here pondering how to ask girl out as everyone is so scared of it.

Makes you really wonder who holds the keys to the power after all.

Even though it was Good message Lotus49 but I couldn't agree with that statement. Men and women are equals, the power is just distributed with different ways. That's the nature's way. They want that we take control and power over them while they know how much power they have over us. It's symbiosis.

The western culture has also affected how we perceive the relationship between men and women. Some of these things are just either pieces of behaviour coming from traditional culture or counterculture that contradicts traditional culture, and might not be the way how things are in biological level.
I believe that many things considered now in evolutionary psychology are based into wrong assumptions how our current culture affects the perceptions of people about the opposite sex and the behaviour linked to the picking of the mate. In fact giving advices about "being a player" creates new type of behaviour that we assume to be "the way of things in nature" while it is just cultural aspect.

Everyone should remember these kind of rules are just general ones and don't apply to all invidual girls, even though it might appear like that in certain circumstances.

 

[azzaman333]

Is it a bad thing if you have a reputation for not talking much?

Quote. (since it seems no one saw it)

 

[Markus6]

Why do girls want their boys to do all the chasing?

That's just what they want you to think. For some reason hot girls want to have hundreds of guys beating each other up to get their attention (I can't think why). The truth is girls are actually more attracted to guys who make the girl chase them (not who make the girl do the asking out/initiating of the first kiss etc. but emotional chasing).

 

[Lotus49]

And that's why we are here pondering how to ask girl out as everyone is so scared of it.

Makes you really wonder who holds the keys to the power after all.

Even though it was Good message Lotus49 but I couldn't agree with that statement. Men and women are equals, the power is just distributed with different ways. That's the nature's way. They want that we take control and power over them while they know how much power they have over us. It's symbiosis.

The western culture has also affected how we perceive the relationship between men and women. Some of these things are just either pieces of behaviour coming from traditional culture or counterculture that contradicts traditional culture, and might not be the way how things are in biological level.
I believe that many things considered now in evolutionary psychology are based into wrong assumptions how our current culture affects the perceptions of people about the opposite sex and the behaviour linked to the picking of the mate. In fact giving advices about "being a player" creates new type of behaviour that we assume to be "the way of things in nature" while it is just cultural aspect.

Everyone should remember these kind of rules are just general ones and don't apply to all invidual girls, even though it might appear like that in certain circumstances.

I'd be curious to know if this 'being afraid to approach a girl and ask her out' has been going on for thousands of years. Something tells me it's relatively new... and it's all due to our societal structure (i.e., decent, acceptable behavior, and engrained knowledge of consequences for deviating from that strict, specific acceptable behavior). The primary 'fear' being: "If this doesn't go as planned/desired, then it backfiring could lead to public consequences for me having 'violated' this poor young woman's tranquility". Obviously, women and children have been sheltered and protected to a pretty high degree, as our society has evolved. So, even coming close to crossing that line would trigger this 'fear/danger zone' of violating the societal structure.

But, sex IS a power, no doubt. There is a 'captivation' that women (especially attractive ones) hold - the XY vs. XX genes have had a LONG time to figure out how to 'ensure procreation by attraction' - so that desire/attractiveness is powerful, and perhaps the power can be intimidating, causing one to be timid (sounds redundant).

But think about it... suppose you were on a plane, that crashed. Exactly like Tom Hanks in Castaway, only there's this really hot chick on the island with you. In this scenario, 'societal structure' is removed. Imagine being in that scenario. Much easier, isn't it?

Suddenly nature alone takes over... and it's sole concern is survival of the species. Thus, like animals, this whole topic becomes a routine, 'nother day at the office, after-thought. The 'business' of life. No different than any other mammals out there, reproducing.

"Dynamics of human pair bonding", are a result of a sophisticated societal structure. ...And the people within it, getting all caught up in it. -Something I don't do much of, btw.

There's lots of movies out there, that play on the fact that 'people accept the world they're presented'. And, it's completely true, for the vast majority. Not us though! We are analyzing...

 

[Shaihulud]

Originally Posted by azzaman333
Is it a bad thing if you have a reputation for not talking much?

The strong silent type? I wouldn't necessary say its too bad, im abit reticent towards girls myself but i have never dated among girls who think im too quiet.

 

[BCLG100]

Quote. (since it seems no one saw it)

couldnt be bothered going back the page for the original quote

no not especially. Some girls like the quiet types and if you have a reputation for not talking when you start too people initially will be more likely to listen. However, theres quiet and then theres timid, girls dont like timid guys the majority of the time who are too scared to approach them/talk to them, just so long as your quietness is not because your worried about opening your mouth you should be fine.

 

[Civrules]

not an expert myself (as i think i only asked one girl out. the rest approach me.) but:
* do the legwork and find a common event where both of you will be, the casually ask her if she wants to go together?
* surprise her! ask her out of the blue, in the corridor if she want to go see that movie or something.
* lure her in. lead a chat in the direction of a nice movie-restaurant-park-whatever. once there mention how youd like to go there - preferably with her.

remember - women are an ALIEN RACE.
they are different from us down to the molecular level.
they think differently, eat differently, and can kill you without a second glance if you annoy them.

best approach is, imho:
* approach with caution, bearing gifts (always works - we call it bribes, though)
* become thier "friend". that will surprise them. they will think you're not the usual guy (which is interesting. which is VERY GOOD)
* try to show genuine interest in them. it might surprise you that they can actually THINK

but MOST IMPORTANTLY - BE A GENTLEMAN.
most guys are creeps. a nice one is ONE TO KEEP and SHOW HER girlFRIENDS.
that means more for you later on.

I went to bed yesterday having read this and I almost couldn't sleep.
All advice in this post is good except for one:

DO NOT give her gifts early on! That's like... the number one mistake guys make!
But why? Well, for a variety of reasons!

1. Giving gifts signals to her that you are lower status because to her it means you can't impress her by just being yourself.
2. Girls actually find that manipulative! They read into stuff like that a lot and come to the conclusion that: "Well, if he's offering gifts THIS early, he must WANT something from me!" And they run, or don't last long.
3. Giving gifts does NOTHING for long-term attraction. That's why so many guys end up heart-broken in the end. They say, "I gave her gifts and everything and she left me! I don't understand!" Again, gifts do nothing for long-term attraction. That's when guys spiral down in depression start cutting, smoke weird things and pop weird pills. Don't go there.
4. Did I say they [gifts] signal low status? Women love men of higher status for obvious evolutionary reasons. Think of how many men give gifts to women. Now seperate yourself from them! (From the beginning at least.) Gifts signal that you need something MORE than your personality to make her feel good.

Here is what I'd do.
First, second, third, fourth date: No gifts no buying her things. Beginning dates are NOT a relationship.
I read a book and it gave this comparison. If you went out with your guy friends, would you buy them stuff? Occasionally, of course. Maybe a coffee. If you do buy her things. Buy her small things (like coffee) and don't make it a big deal.

If she starts getting weird she is either a gold digger or something up-stairs isn't working right. Run for the forest. Most girls won't have a problem and will respect you more for not buying them and chasing them with gifts such as flowers, etc.

So don't buy gifts at all in the beginning. Don't pay for dates. This may seem weird but it's because we've been conditioned by the wrong people to be polite and buy girls things. The people we've been conditioned that from don't always know how to make attraction work with girls.

I'll get to the others a lil later.

[EDIT]
The only time when you actually WANT to buy a girl something is when she does something that you like, thus you reward her (uugh... imaginations will run wild when people read this, but it's not always the case so don't be so perverted). So in a sense, it is the opposite of "bribing." Bribing means you give her a gift to get somewhere, either on a date, etc (and this doesn't work very long and she starts seeing these bribes).

 

[Bad Player]

Your thoughts on the Ladder Theory?

So don't buy gifts at all in the beginning. Don't pay for dates. This may seem weird but it's because we've been conditioned by the wrong people to be polite and buy girls things. The people we've been conditioned that from don't always know how to make attraction work with girls.

If you ask her out shouldn't you pay for the coffee/lunch?

 

[C~G]

I'd be curious to know if this 'being afraid to approach a girl and ask her out' has been going on for thousands of years.

Me as well. I just pointed out how difficult it's to claim something to be natural way of bonding and some other behaviour not.
My believe with human beings is that we our mechanism to cope with the current enviroment and learn the social structure to follow the rules is where we base our bonding.
It's as much about our memes as much as of our genes.

But, sex IS a power, no doubt. There is a 'captivation' that women (especially attractive ones) hold - the XY vs. XX genes have had a LONG time to figure out how to 'ensure procreation by attraction' - so that desire/attractiveness is powerful, and perhaps the power can be intimidating, causing one to be timid (sounds redundant).

Women play this card when they notice that they have such power.
It fairly well explains how girl that appears to be innocent at first turns to completely something else. The whole idea is that men think that these women don't have power. But they have. Over men because of our weakness to want sex.

But think about it... suppose you were on a plane, that crashed. Exactly like Tom Hanks in Castaway, only there's this really hot chick on the island with you. In this scenario, 'societal structure' is removed. Imagine being in that scenario. Much easier, isn't it?

It's easy for me in almost all circumstances. In fact for me the problem is almost the opposite. Since I'm not afraid to ask and break the social structure the possibilities start to be limitless and can cause me to favour relationships that won't last but are based into first impression.
And that I have seen happens in dating culture right now. It's superficial way of picking the "right partner" for the time being when in long run it won't give the desired result. I think the current system is flawed as people don't seem to understand it's different to seek life long lasting partner than just ask someone out. I mean flawed in sense that people think it's perfect and natural way of picking partner but the relationships keep failing because of this premise.

Suddenly nature alone takes over... and it's sole concern is survival of the species. Thus, like animals, this whole topic becomes a routine, 'nother day at the office, after-thought. The 'business' of life. No different than any other mammals out there, reproducing.

That is partly true the problem is that even though we're on island, we have still learned the ways of our organized society before we arrive to the island. And I believe it also would prove that hot girl would eventually pick me since he doesn't anything else available. People adapt to the rules of "dating game" in certain enviroment and try to play with them to achieve the most perfect partner for them in that enviroment. Problem is of course what I have noticed that example in bars you don't meet many intelligent women that I would like to hang out with. You only meet women that might be hot looking but they lack all the other qualities that could provide something more than just sex.
In these kind of enviroments people pust to foreground such qualities that promise something good and fun fast. Problem is that people who seek long term relationship might want to check the other qualities as well but might not be able to do so until people have become already almost too close and intimate. I have noticed that in more neutral enviroment you can percept people and their qualities better. That's why I would recommend people having dates in different kind of conditions so you will get to know the person by reflecting her other qualities if you are looking for long time relationship.

"Dynamics of human pair bonding", are a result of a sophisticated societal structure. ...And the people within it, getting all caught up in it. -Something I don't do much of, btw.
There's lots of movies out there, that play on the fact that 'people accept the world they're presented'. And, it's completely true, for the vast majority. Not us though! We are analyzing...

Yes, I agree and we try to play with the rules of that particular social structure. But we have to understand that our current behaviour affects it and it ain't only the reality or natural state of things.

Because some people claim that people are somehow more free to choose their partners than before. There's still our own constructed social structure and reality that most people follow, but the rules can change if inviduals encounter different kind of experiences.

Some people think that growing up is about getting to know how people naturally bond but it's more about learning the current social structures where the bonding happens and rules of that "inside society".
So the advices given aren't about how girls always act but how most girls might act currently as it is perceived in the dating scene.

But I think we agree about the subject, don't you think?

 

[soul_warrior]

civrules, where did i mention gifts?

i agree whole heartedly - DO NOT spread your gifts around too soon!
they would either view this as a cheap bribe (so you could get into thier knickers) or you being too rich.
which would leave you with gold-diggers or stupid girls.
not to mention a thinner wallet.

treat the ladies as equals.
that would achieve 4 goals:
* they will respect you for respecting them
* it will sift out the gold-diggers
* it will establish an equality between you
* neither of you will feel indebted to the other, making a real relationship easier to grow.

 

[soul_warrior]

If you ask her out shouldn't you pay for the coffee/lunch?

nope.
i ALWAYS do it each to his own.
especially at first.

my reasons:
* i usually drink more, and wouldnt want to make her pay for me
* it sets clear rules. we dont owe each other anything, and if it wont work we can part as friends.
* i cant afford to pay for them on a regular basis, and the first 5 dates are crucial to establishing the future goings on.

 

[Civrules]

civrules, where did i mention gifts?

i agree whole heartedly - DO NOT spread your gifts around too soon!
they would either view this as a cheap bribe (so you could get into thier knickers) or you being too rich.
which would leave you with gold-diggers or stupid girls.
not to mention a thinner wallet.

treat the ladies as equals.
that would achieve 4 goals:
* they will respect you for respecting them
* it will sift out the gold-diggers
* it will establish an equality between you
* neither of you will feel indebted to the other, making a real relationship easier to grow.

Here: ....

best approach is, imho:
* approach with caution, bearing gifts (always works - we call it bribes, though)

 

[Civrules]

Your thoughts on the Ladder Theory?

It gets close to explaining attraction but comes nowhere near what the cutting edge of the attraction experts have come up with.

The problem with it is that it consideres people who are socially unaware on the matter. THEN it may be true.
But if you do take the time to read multiple books and expert articles, then you run your own show.

If you ask her out shouldn't you pay for the coffee/lunch?

No.
Believe me, it will not be weird. She will not expect you to pay. If she does, make a joke about it.

Seriously, every time you get challenged make a joke. Never give straight-up answers (obviously if the conversation is on a mature level then of course be mature, but if the two of you are playful or if she challenges you, be confident and play around a bit).

 

[Brighteye]

Listen well to Lotus49. But don't listen too hard or you'll be stuck on his little island of thought, addicted to the Lotus and unable to think for yourself.

Girls like to be chased because it makes them feel good. When a girl chases me it's nice. I know how they feel, although most girls get it far more than I do. As soon as you start chasing you're putting more effort into the 'relationship'. The only way to pull this off is to be the exuberant, extravagant sort of person who chases everything, and then chasing is just part of your character, not a special effort you do for her.
If you're putting huge amounts of work into it you just encourage her to do nothing. She'll not find any interesting things to do, she'll lie there like a lemon in bed... and that's frustrating. If I wanted a limp doll I'd buy one.

It's best to ignore any woman who wants you to chase her, or else be just friends. Don't be 'just friends' in the hope of becoming more. Save yourself for one of those rare women who are willing to join in on a relationship, and use those girls who want to be chased as useful sources of information and advice about girly things.

If a girl likes you she'll either wait for you to chase her around, in which case she'll pretend she's not very interested until you're wasting your whole life just waiting for her to turn up, or else she'll make some moves on you.
If a girl starts coming after you then if you like her you can start reciprocating. But never let your guard down. She'll let you sink into doing all the work while she sits there like a weight if she can.

Always remember that although girls have the power to give you sex, you've got a hand, you can buy a doll, and girls want sex as much as anyone else. Not only that, but whereas you can substitute for a doll, since your pleasure is physical, girls have more trouble having a relationship with an inanimate object.
Don't let them play you. If I offered you an implant that gave you pleasure every time I chose to press a button, so that I could train you to do certain things, you'd refuse (unless you reckoned you could steal my remote control). Women just try to condition you into being a slave and looking after her, in the same way that you condition a dog by slapping it when it's been bad and stroke it when it's good.
Everyone wants to be cared for, but it doesn't mean that we should let them manipulate people into it. Best just to stick to straightforward slavery using physical force. At least that's open and honest.

Even treating women as equals doesn't work. I had a girlfriend who wouldn't accept that. Everything we did she'd fight, so that either I did all the work/effort or I made her take the burden. She simply wouldn't accept a fair split. Admittedly she was a spoilt princess type who had previously had people take her home ON TWO HOUR JOURNEYS on the train before getting the next train back. At school, when they were seeing each other the next day.
She wanted me to put all the effort in. She couldn't accept a relationship where she accepted the principle that she was my equal. She didn't remain in a relationship with me for too long.
That's where gifts and 'nice' gestures get you.