Giving Up The Argument

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Thanks, pboily. With me, a large portion of my position on any given subject depends on factors that cannot be classified as "logic" - particularly my religious beliefs. Something like that is pretty much beyond the scope of an internet forum. In other cases, I have actually changed my mind on issues because I felt that the argument against my earlier position proved to be better than my own.
 
Azash said:
I've noticed that a lot of people here on the OT tend to hold on to their arguments as hard as they can. When someone is faced with evidence one cannot disprove, rational and ingenious topics often descend into flamefests not seen since the last barbecue in Baator.

What is your opinion? Discuss.

What I notice is that people ignore thought out and reasonable posts and focus on the side-issues and nitpicks. So, you're best chance of eliciting a response is almost to go for the jugular or just be hyperbolic yourself.... much like TV debate shows.

I'd also like to see people discuss things w/out ever saying "liberal" or "conservative" either about themselves or those they're debating with. Way too much stereotyping, bashing, etc....
 
I'm an idiot, so usually I quit the argument to prevent myself from looking like a bigger idiot. :p

I don't get involved in many debates anyway.
 
cody_the_genius said:
I'm an idiot, so usually I quit the argument to prevent myself from looking like a bigger idiot. :p

I usually get to the point of total idiocy, and THEN I walk out. With dozens of angry posters throwing questions at me :D
 
I measure my success by the number of people who PM me saying "you are totally correct" or "nice job" and also by the number of people that /ignore me.

Even given the anonyminity of the net, there are still a good number of people who dont voice their own opposing opinion simply because they cant handle conflict of any kind. Odd, but true.

Me....I dont have that problem.:goodjob:
 
MobBoss said:
I measure my success by the number of people who PM me saying "you are totally correct" or "nice job" and also by the number of people that /ignore me.

Even given the anonyminity of the net, there are still a good number of people who dont voice their own opposing opinion simply because they cant handle conflict of any kind. Odd, but true.

Me....I dont have that problem.:goodjob:

Yeaass ok, when people talk about success then they're missing the point of being here, I may of missed the point, perhaps I have, but this isn't a competition with a scoreboard, anyone else think there in it for points as a matter of interest?

Success is being able to take something from the debate that you didn't have before, the more you grow the more successfull you are win or lose, if you come to a debate simply seeking an ego stroking pm, then you've lost before you begin IMO. After all what did you learn if you always have to be right? Nothing you didn't know before?

I guess it depends on how you see winning and losing, the criteria you place on success and what it is your looking for, to be honest though it's a rarity to see anyone posting who's just here to win, in fact your the only person I've ever seen perhaps other people are just more subtle about it, but I doubt it, still what ever floats your boat I guess.
 
I'm pretty stubborn, and I don't often admit that I'm wrong. (Because I'm usually not ;) ) But if you can show me that I am wrong, and document how I am wrong, (Links, and such) I'll usually admit it.
 
Ecclesiastes said:
I think to many people on CFC rely on "logic", you know, everyone on CFC relies to heavily on "logic", which is precisely why none of you have a girlfriend.
What is 'girlfriend'? You are not Morg, you are not Imorg!
 
Sidhe said:
Yeaass ok, when people talk about success then they're missing the point of being here, I may of missed the point, perhaps I have, but this isn't a competition with a scoreboard, anyone else think there in it for points as a matter of interest?

Everything in life has its scoreboard. Usually denied by those losing the game.:D

Success is being able to take something from the debate that you didn't have before, the more you grow the more successfull you are win or lose, if you come to a debate simply seeking an ego stroking pm, then you've lost before you begin IMO. After all what did you learn if you always have to be right? Nothing you didn't know before?

People dont come to OT to learn stuff. Plenty of other websites that offer that. People come to OT to share their views/opinions and argue the validity of same. Its just old fashioned debate, facilitated via the net as opposed to happening in a coffeehouse somewhere.

I guess it depends on how you see winning and losing, the criteria you place on success and what it is your looking for, to be honest though it's a rarity to see anyone posting who's just here to win, in fact your the only person I've ever seen perhaps other people are just more subtle about it, but I doubt it, still what ever floats your boat I guess.

I have yet seen a poster here argue his viewpoint in order to lose the arguement.
 
classical_hero said:
Many times I just give up because I know that many people here will not change not matter what you say I find it is better just to say what you have to say and then go on with the next thread you want to participate in.
Ditto and I agree with that statement. I am starting to get that feeling as well since I feel its better to just say what is on my mind and go on my merrly way. I would still debate if I am in the mood.
 
I sign in to OT when I think about it and am slow at work. I add my 2 cents and leave. If I'm lucky I'll come and argue my point later if refuted. If not, oh well...
 
MobBoss said:
I measure my success by the number of people who PM me saying "you are totally correct" or "nice job" and also by the number of people that /ignore me.
My problem with that would be that I have no way of knowing how many people think that I'm wrong: they would tend to PM my adversary to tell him/her "you are totally correct" or "nice job".

Too easy to fall prey to the "yes-men"...

As an aside, I once PM'd one of your adversaries to tell them they were right and you were full of a certain brownish substance ;)

EDIT: one more thing, is there a way to know who has you on their ignore lists? Or did you mean people who don't respond to your posts?
 
MobBoss said:
People dont come to OT to learn stuff. Plenty of other websites that offer that. People come to OT to share their views/opinions and argue the validity of same. Its just old fashioned debate, facilitated via the net as opposed to happening in a coffeehouse somewhere.



I have yet seen a poster here argue his viewpoint in order to lose the arguement.

I don't think I've ever been convinced by your arguments though? Or changed my views because of something you said, your far too fire and brimstone for my liberal views, and I don't mean the US liberal.

Everything in life has its scoreboard. Usually denied by those losing the game.:D

Genuinely I find this attitude sad, in a young man it would be naive, in you it smacks of a deeply rooted desire to always win at all cost it's almost desperate, lifes a series of wins and losses, denying that is quite damaging to your personal growth. Ever read the poem If by Kipling?

It's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game is the losers refrain I've heard, that's nonsense if you take that to heart in a game love or life, then you can't go wrong.

That' something I used to have as my sig on a gaming forum. The games the thing.

People dont come to OT to learn stuff.

Oh they do, because I learn a deal about cultural perceptions, atitudes, morals, Idealogies of other cultures, if you learning nothing it's because your not listening.
 
Why should I give up in a debate when I'm right?
 
I don't give up though I usually will agree to disagree if my opponent is overly resistant to my assertions. Better to find a common ground and acknowledge the other person as at least passionate (if misguided :D) than to harbor anomosity. :)
 
CIVPhilzilla said:
Why should I give up in a debate when I'm right?

Who said anything about giving up until your convinced your wrong? Hey I'm not one to give up untill I see some proof either.
 
MobBoss said:
I measure my success by the number of people who PM me saying "you are totally correct" or "nice job" and also by the number of people that /ignore me.

Even given the anonyminity of the net, there are still a good number of people who dont voice their own opposing opinion simply because they cant handle conflict of any kind. Odd, but true.

Me....I dont have that problem.:goodjob:
I'm going ot go out on a limb and tell you that most (regular) posters don't voice their own opposing opinion to yours because they know that you are one-sided, stubborn, presumptuous, patronizing, condescend and holder of the holy truth. They can handle a conflict, but not intelligence dishonesty and bigotry. At least that's why I prefer to ignore your bs 99% of the time.
 
MobBoss said:
I have yet seen a poster here argue his viewpoint in order to lose the arguement.

People don't play chess to lose either, but you do tend to learn a bit more from a losing game than a winning one.

MobBoss said:
Everything in life has its scoreboard. Usually denied by those losing the game.:D

Interesting for you to say that. I don't recall you winning an argument ever.
Just remember that not everyone cares about the scoreboard so dearly much that one would pull every disingenuous argument style and logical fallacy to get to it.
 
De Lorimier said:
I'm going ot go out on a limb and tell you that most (regular) posters don't voice their own opposing opinion to yours because they know that you are one-sided, stubborn, presumptuous, patronizing, condescend and holder of the holy truth. They can handle a conflict, but not intelligence dishonesty and bigotry. At least that's why I prefer to ignore your bs 99% of the time.

And thus I prove how well loved I am upon this forum. I simply post my view about "giving up the argument" and look what love and affection is heaped upon me.

And such people insist that it is I who start the personal attacks.:rolleyes:

I daresay you need to work on that 1%. I would say that is a rather deflated number as opposed to the reality of the situation.
 
nihilistic said:
People don't play chess to lose either, but you do tend to learn a bit more from a losing game than a winning one.

I would say you learn equally from both. And I did most of my chess learning reading about chess and how to see patterns as opposed to randomly played games.

Interesting for you to say that. I don't recall you winning an argument ever.

/shrug. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even you. Doesnt make it right though does it? I can safely say I have more than held my own in this place. You dont think so? Oh well. I dont post here to make you happy.

Just remember that not everyone cares about the scoreboard so dearly much that one would pull every disingenuous argument style and logical fallacy to get to it.

/shrug ..../again

You feel better now that you attacked me and vented?:rolleyes:
 
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