scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
alerum68 said:
Why don't you tell us some other things you don't like, Alerum? 
GK2- The Training Day Experiment
- Thread starter Gengis Khan
- Start date
Why don't you tell us some other things you don't like, Alerum? 
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
ummm... let's see.... Broncos, NE Patriots, Big Brother, and this growth that's coming out of my shoulder... looks like an eye... and sometimes it blinks.
I just meant I like prebuilding wonders this early in the game.
I just meant I like prebuilding wonders this early in the game.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Sorry, That's what I'm talking about. That's what I get for taking a day off yesterday, my mind is shot.
Let's start an appropriate prebuild. Also are we a republic yet? I'd like to look at the things being a republic does for us.
Let's start an appropriate prebuild. Also are we a republic yet? I'd like to look at the things being a republic does for us.
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
Not a republic yet, but I think we hould revolt as soon as the war is over. No point in ruining production during our Golden Age, and during a war.
coletite
Warlord
Ok, I think I'm ready to go.
1) Accumulate enough gold to upgrade MWs to knights
2) Wipe out Persia (Burn, baby, burn!)
3) Revolt to Republic (after war)
4) Pursue Economics research path
5) Prebuild a wonder (Smith's most likely?)
I think I just might play within the next hour. I'll check back here before I do for any last minute advice.
[EDIT] Oops, just realized I have to go to work in a couple hours. I won't have time to play so I'll have to put it off until tonight.
1) Accumulate enough gold to upgrade MWs to knights
2) Wipe out Persia (Burn, baby, burn!)
3) Revolt to Republic (after war)
4) Pursue Economics research path
5) Prebuild a wonder (Smith's most likely?)
I think I just might play within the next hour. I'll check back here before I do for any last minute advice.
[EDIT] Oops, just realized I have to go to work in a couple hours. I won't have time to play so I'll have to put it off until tonight.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Have you thought about where, and what you'll use as a pre-build?coletite said:
mad-bax said:
First, sorry to draw this topic a bit off topic.
But what about pulling the Lux slidder up to 100%? With ~99% happy face in your empire, the next luxury will not bring so much happiness anymore... Is the trading price modified from it?
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
I'm not really sure...and IIRC, MB was talking about starting with a low number of happy faces (from not having any luxuries) not a high number...Kute said:
A couple of points:
1) The AI knows how much gpt you make, and if you don't have any gpt, odds are you won't be making many deals. Don't believe me? Next time the AI won't sell you something, take a slider down and try cutting a deal.
2) You need a LOT of tax collectors and/or cities making wealth to have the cash flow to put the lux or research slider at 100% long term...or a lot of AI paying you a lot of GPT. It's possible, but not easy.
scoutsout said:
As much as i don't want to threadjack an already humongous thread
...I'm merely thinking of another "exploit":
* You spot a nice luxury ready to be traded*
* you pull the lux slider all the way to 100% (who care you are losing 150gpt)*
*you make the deal (discount?)*
*you slide down your luxuries like nothing happened*
I'm not sure if it will work, and i (think) hope not, but on the other side the AI knows your income, so it's fair to assume it can know the effect of the trade. And it could so easily be fooled upon, alternatively sometime i think the stop science before dealing a tech is effective..
I can't try it right now, and it looked like an important topic to voice out loud.
*crawls back in the shadow*
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
It might be an interesting experiment (this game is all about experiments) to go to Republic during the war. We can then compare WW, costs, productivity, income, and other stuff. You will win this game, it was in the bag when you hammered Japan. Let's compare these two governments.
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
I don't think that's how it works... I mean with happy faces. The prices of luxuries goes up when you get near the end. If you have 2 luxuries, and by a third it'll cost... say 20GPT. By the time you're at the 8th luxury you're closer to 200GPT. I think making everyone happy with the luxury slider won't do much to lower the price, it may increase it. The best best would be to land a unit with 3 workers on a tile with a luxury, illage it and get down to 1 or even no luxuries... then by it from him for the 20GPT... but the draw back is you'll need to do it every 20 turns.
coletite
Warlord
To answer the where/with what prebuild question, we need to answer another question: are there any othe essential non-wonder builds that need to be built right now? My "essential" list includes:
Barracks (only if the city will be producing military)
Libraries (to keep science moving in the middle ages and beyond)
Markets (to stimulate economy)
After that, everything is on an as needed basis. Later on, banks become important and if your are going for a SS (which I believe we are) universities and research labs. Factories are also useful in a few, select cities.
I'll have to check the core cities to find out what we have built. A city in our core with high shield production and a market (and maybe a library, but I don't think we have built any) would be the best.
As for what to prebuild with, does anyone know how long it will take us to get to economics? Even a rough guess? Most likely a palace will be our best bet... but it depends on how long until we're ready to build the wonder.
Barracks (only if the city will be producing military)
Libraries (to keep science moving in the middle ages and beyond)
Markets (to stimulate economy)
After that, everything is on an as needed basis. Later on, banks become important and if your are going for a SS (which I believe we are) universities and research labs. Factories are also useful in a few, select cities.
I'll have to check the core cities to find out what we have built. A city in our core with high shield production and a market (and maybe a library, but I don't think we have built any) would be the best.
As for what to prebuild with, does anyone know how long it will take us to get to economics? Even a rough guess? Most likely a palace will be our best bet... but it depends on how long until we're ready to build the wonder.
Mistfit
Deity
We do have a prebuild somewhere I remember asking what it was for because the only thing I can see on the horizion was Sistines in 2 turns. IIRC we has 8 turns left on the palace prebuild.
Good luck on the turns.
Good luck on the turns.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Well then...if that's the case, you guys probably ought to swap that build to Sistine's... unless you want to jump your palace.
@Bugsy: If these guys snag Sistine and build cheap religious-civ Cathedrals all over the place, we're going to have a tough time giving this team any war weariness to contend with later on... and at Monarch level no less... this is a formula for non-stop WLTKD all over creation. Dangit.
@Bugsy: If these guys snag Sistine and build cheap religious-civ Cathedrals all over the place, we're going to have a tough time giving this team any war weariness to contend with later on... and at Monarch level no less... this is a formula for non-stop WLTKD all over creation. Dangit.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Gengis and I discussed that when we were picking out the civ. We thought that the religious trait would be a problem in that way, but the idea of being able to switch rapidly between government outweighed the WW issue.
Another reason why I'm being a pest about the government change. Let's experiment. I think the team will find that republic is actually a pretty good government to go to war in.
Another reason why I'm being a pest about the government change. Let's experiment. I think the team will find that republic is actually a pretty good government to go to war in.
coletite
Warlord
Are we going for Sistine, then?
Bede gets out his calculator to help out with some stuff.
If you want to build Smith's you need Education, Banking and Economics. You are so clsoe on Theology it doesn't matter.
Knowledge cost factors (assuming no one else has the technology)
Education 1173g Total income right now is 610. After corruption and 10% lux you net 285. Spending 285gpt gets you Education in 5 turns. I am ignoring the impact of libraries here as I don't think you have enough to make a difference, as spending 284g only nets 243 beakers. So let's call it 5 turns to Education.
Banking costs 1386g At this rate it is 6 to Banking
Econimics costs 1493g so at 243g beakers it is 7 turns.
So 18 turns to Econonmics at current income levels.
The end of the GA will reduce uncorrupted gpt by ~50%. Switching to Republic will get that back and a little more. BTW the most important factor in Republic is not the reduced corruption but the +1gpt from improved terrain. The corruption effect willl disappear in the rounding.
Anyway the number crunching suggests that the Iroquois are 25-30 turns from building Smith's.
So, what do you do with this information?
If you want to build Smith's you need Education, Banking and Economics. You are so clsoe on Theology it doesn't matter.
Knowledge cost factors (assuming no one else has the technology)
Education 1173g Total income right now is 610. After corruption and 10% lux you net 285. Spending 285gpt gets you Education in 5 turns. I am ignoring the impact of libraries here as I don't think you have enough to make a difference, as spending 284g only nets 243 beakers. So let's call it 5 turns to Education.
Banking costs 1386g At this rate it is 6 to Banking
Econimics costs 1493g so at 243g beakers it is 7 turns.
So 18 turns to Econonmics at current income levels.
The end of the GA will reduce uncorrupted gpt by ~50%. Switching to Republic will get that back and a little more. BTW the most important factor in Republic is not the reduced corruption but the +1gpt from improved terrain. The corruption effect willl disappear in the rounding.
Anyway the number crunching suggests that the Iroquois are 25-30 turns from building Smith's.
So, what do you do with this information?
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Sir Bugsy said:
Mistfit is already learning the benefit of fighting a war in Republic in our Jumpmaster 1B game. I also just completed a warmongering slugfest in GOTM33 with all my wars coming after I switched to Republic. I could have won by DOM in late 1400 or early 1500's had I not decided to go for a Histo win and milk the game.
