GK2- The Training Day Experiment

@Mistfit: The Hurricane Party was worse for me than the Hurricane. Gator is south of me, and I'm hoping to hear from him soon. There are one or three others I'm concerned about on the boards as well.

@Handy - that is a really cool avatar, btw. Glad you're in here.

@Team - you guys are handing Coletite an ...interesting tactical situation. Are you guys going to analyze it and help your teammate out, or what? :p
 
Yes, help me, please! I'd especially appreciate help from on teammate in particular who was conspicuously not mentioned in the first post on this page... ;)
 
Glad the storm didn't get you too badly, Scout. In Illinois the worst we ever get's the occasional tornado or flash flood and the slightly-less-occasional blizzard sometime in January or February. And even then all that stuff is often worse west of here. I can't imagine actually living someplace where there's a very definite "hurricane season" ;) Hopefully everyone else'll turn out okay.

I guess I'll get me the save and do an analysis -- the minute I can quit playing Railroad Tycoon II.
 
First off, an inventory of troops shows we've got
- 10 swordsmen
- 11 pikemen
- 18 mounted warriors
- and 2 catapults.

MWs were the strength of our attack when we first went into Persia. We've still got 18 of them, but now they're spread out amongst the Persian lands, mostly healing and doing guard duty. The breakdown is as follows:

- 6 MWs are outside Arbela, waiting to take the town
- 2 are northwest of Persepolis, stacked with a catapult
- 2 are holding down the fort in Pasargadae
- 1 is in Antioch
- 1 is north of Antioch
- 1 is south of Tarsus
- 1 is in Tarsus
- 1 is in Susa
- 1 is in Gordium
- 1 is in Bactra
- and 1 is northeast of Pasargadae. All 18 present and accounted for.

I honestly think that 18 mounted warriors (and perhaps...four catapults, if we were desperate) should be able to take Persepolis. The problem is that we've hit a wall capturing towns: with no spears and pikes to defend new acquisitions, all of our units are waiting to heal/are on guard duty in cities/both of these.

So I think our Big Problem is that our units are spread out around the newly captured Persian towns, and they're not really concentrated for one last break towards Persepolis.

--

Plans we could consider:
(Note that hammering Arbela is probably a good idea in all these cases.)

1. Take Arbela and cut out of the war by signing peace with Xerxes. Build cultural improvements in the surrounding cities to push back the Persepolis radius and use the twenty turns to develop our core's infrastructure and our outer cities' defenses.

Pros: We don't have to spend any more energy on the war effort. This means we won't have to build more offensive units for the forseeable future; most of our military spending will just go to defenses, and everything else we can slam into building infrastructure back home.
It will be difficult for Xerxes to expand when we've got a ring of cities around him. After the 20 turns, we should have enough of a lead on him that we can dispose of him at our leisure.

Cons: Admittedly, the land around Persepolis isn't half bad, so all things considered it may be a better idea just to find a way to take it now and get one more productive city. In exchange for maybe ten turns of reduced core productivity while we spend on the military, we gain ten or fifteen more of a useful Persepolis.

2. Favor building defensive units in our outer cities, leave the core alone (unless it, too, is going to be heading for Pikemen). The new units will allow time for our MWs to heal as well as freeing them up from defensive duty. Once our MWs are ready to go, we can group them south of Persepolis and prepare to strike.

Pros: This wins Persepolis over sooner, turning it into a productive city.

Cons: We'll have to round up some defensive troops - building or cash-rushing, although we're kind of low on money for the latter (as a result of our speedy research) - and wait a turn or two for the MWs to heal. Sending troops in from the north will be slow, and it'll also take time to bring our forces together on the south side of Persepolis for the attack.

3. Give some emphasis to defensive units where they're needed, but also build catapults in the northern ex-Persian towns. Since they'll be bombarding, they can do damage across the river without having to worry about a penalty (I assume the fording penalty is removed for bombardment). Then a smaller number of MWs can be summoned to the south to attack Persepolis, since the units inside will already have seen some damage. The hill NW of Persepolis has a road and could potentially be used as a staging area.

Pros: Logistically, this works out a little better, because the MWs that are already in the south can attack without crossing a river, while the MWs in the north can stay on defensive duty or be used to guard catapults.

Cons: Catapults are kind of an iffy proposition as far as bombardment is concerned (not that we have much of a choice), and they still take time to build and move around. It's hard to say how many catapults is enough for this job.

4. Pillage and fortify outside Persepolis, with the goal of starving it down to size 6, neutralizing its defensive bonus. Then a forceful attack can be made.

Pros: The only resource really required here is patience, as we'd just have to regroup everything onto Xerxes' good food tiles and wait for starvation.

Cons: The plan will take a while, and most of the units we have in the area are MWs, which means Xerxes has a chance of building/rushing an offensive unit or two and trying to bust out. I'd prefer to get out of this with no casualties if at all possible.

5. Build knights in the north and attack Persepolis with more powerful units.

Pros: Once the knights are built, the job probably gets done quickly.

Cons: It's rather anticlimactic and I doubt we'd learn much of anything.

--

Right now I'm actually leaning towards taking Arbela, calling time, and regrouping. Healing our injured units adds at least a couple turns to most of these plans, as does the process of actually attacking Arbela.

Since X is going to be on the ropes anyway, I'm less concerned about him staying alive an extra twenty turns or so.

@ team - I'm sure I've missed an idea or two. What else is there?
 
Good Write-up GJ. Very well thought out. Can you post a screenie of the Pas - Antioch - Tarsus - Arebella area. I do not have the game available to me for 5-6 hours but I have an Idea. It would help discussion if I could look at the area.
 
The battleground:

GKTDG-420-AD-Persia.JPG


That's a 4/5 MW obscured by the status window in the bottom right.
 
I don't think defensive units are worth our time right now. We have the entire continent to ourselves (once Persia is sacked) so we will only need to repel invaders.

I like the notion of starving Persepolis down to size 6, then hitting it with all 18 MWs. Between numbers and retreat capability, we should be able to take it with minimal casulties.

[Edit] It looks like we'll have 15 fully healed MWs next turn if:

a) none of the damaged ones move
b) we take Arbela
and
c) The MWs takign Arbela don't take any damage

Any idea how many spears are in Arbela?
 
Ok this is just the rough outline of a plan to make Persepolis easier to take.
#1 we need a few turns healing and shuffling troops around.
#2 we need one turn to take Arabella
#3 Get our troops all stationed where the healing units are right now NW - NW - NW of Persepolis
#4 Pull the troops out of Tarsus an put them on the hill NW - NW of the city
#5 Stop the workers highlighted and get them up on the hill to road it

My hopes would be that Persia seeing an Empty city would pull their extra troops out of Persepolis and head to take the "Free" city, making it easier to take Persepolis once we get there.

We Should be able to wait until the Persians are right on our doorstop to put the Pikes Back into the city.

This combined with your plans might make them better.
GKTDG-420-AD-Persia.jpg

What do you think?
 
I think that the empty city trick is cruelly sneaky and I would love to see them fall for it. :D

OTOH, I don't have enough playing experience to know if they'll take the bait so easily.

As for the order of movements: do we need to move everyone from the south onto the "healing" stack 3NW of Persepolis, or can they just heal at home and move to the desired square?
 
Unless the Town has a Rax in it I do not like to have units healing in it. I am very concerned about loosing units to flips. (I think scout has some good horror stories there) Heal them where they are and then move em I dont see much of a difference either way. I do believe that they will pull some troops from the city if we do that. Any that we can get out will be helpful.

BTW I choose Tarsus because it has the least chance to flip per Dianthus' Map stat.
 
It will depend upon how much Persepolis is threatened. If you have a stack outside the city they won't go for it.
 
In that case it looks like it would be better to move everyone 3NW of Persepolis onto that stack and move them all as indicated.

Once we've pulled out of Tarsus, we'll have to wait two AI turns for them to get far enough away for us to move into position (so they don't have time to retreat back into the city). After Arbela, it should be possible to compute when, exactly, we can make that move, have everyone finish healing while we wait for the Persians to move, and then move in ourselves.

I just hope this works -- assuming that it's the plan we use.
 
The grumpy monk speaks:

You folks are doing a great job of thinking outside the box but I'm a simple kinda guy who likes simple solutions, so, instead of thinking about the box, just bust the box.

18 healthy units are enough to take any town in the MA especially when your opponent has no iron.

What's the quickest way to lay down the heaviest hammer you can?

Hint: there is a diplomacy factor to the solution.
 
I'm sure X-man would give us both of his remaining cities for peace (and definitly the little one on the penninisula after we took Arabella) but that would leave him with Parsepolis for us to mop up on later. I'd just be concerned about flips.
 
Diplomacy... hmm. The quickest, heaviest way to win is to sue for peace, take Arbela and the other city in the agreement, then break the treaty and wipe out Persepolis with all the MWs. However, since X-man has contact with the othe continent, won't this severly damage our rep?
 
Next hint: Look across the ocean.
 
Across the ocean....

The only thing I can think of is an Alliance with England since they have Great Lightbulb. But they still cannot cross Ocean squares, can they?

I'm just not getting it. I still think the simplest way to wipe out Persia is to dogpile Persepolis with the MWs.
 
You need cash, the other continent has it, and you have something they want.

If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer.
 
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