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GK2- The Training Day Experiment

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Gengis Khan, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

    Jun 20, 2003
    You gotta hate posts like that. Now we're all on the edge of our seats. :crazyeye:
  2. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    Hee, I wrote enough in the turn report that I'll have to clip it into three parts. :D Slicing and posting now.
  3. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    Check everything before starting…

    First: realize I can’t think without some happening, modern tunes. Load iTunes. Start playing Mahler’s 4th. Smile and get to work.

    Note that it is the start of the 10 AD turn during this check (rather than being the end of 10 BC).

    First things first: Go around the horn with the advisers.

    F1: Kyoto threatens to riot. Kyoto is fatally corrupt, only producing one gold and one shield. It is building a temple, which will help with happiness and culture – if it gets built in time. I don’t want to boost the lux rate to 30% in an empire where most of the cities have mostly happy people. Fortunately, the corruption in Kyoto lets me be rather freehanded in my handling of the situation. Manage Kyoto, lifting the worker on the mined grassland NE of the city and making him an entertainer. At no net loss to shield or commerce production, Kyoto is now sufficiently happy and grows in 10 instead of 5. If happiness becomes a problem when Kyoto grows, the Temple will be very cheap to cash rush.

    We're making 10 gpt and have Feudalism due in 15 at 4.4.2. We can get Feudalism in 9 at 50% science, but then we'll be well into the red. Most cities are happy, so I leave the sliders alone for now.

    Our treasury is at 362 gold after the investigations of Parsagadae and Persepolis, which we used to determine how far along Persia was in the wonder department. (Answer: Not very. See previous posts.)

    F2: Nara and Camp Mistic are not feeling the love (as it were) when it comes to our trade network. Nara is the extra Japanese city that ended up behind the Zulu empire. I can't do a whole lot with it until the Zulu are gone. Camp Mistic is a jungle city near Panama and it will be hooked up soon.

    F3: "Unless we get more gold, we cannot support more of our glorious armies." Drat! Fortunately, everything else is in order: we are stronger than Zululand and Persia alike.
    Our forces consist of 3 settlers, 32 workers, 1 scout, 8 warriors, 18 spearmen, 13 swordsmen, a rather lonely-looking galley, and 17 of our honorable Mounted Warriors, who are currently on the bench.

    I have no idea what to do with those settlers. Two of them are near Zululand, so I'm pretty sure I'll use at least one to resettle Isandhlwana one square SW of where it is now, thus picking up the whales. If I need to resettle Mpondo, say, I can do that as well. I'm in no particular hurry to do this though. The last settler is in Niagara Falls, and it doesn't look like there is a very obvious location for him yet. Maybe I will put up a city near Ulundi's current location. Or he could wait and resettle Tyre when we go to war with Persia. In any case, nothing will be happening right away.

    F4: Go to have a chat with Zulu. They'll give up 30 gold (all available), Intombe, and Mpondo for peace, which is certainly not enough to be worthwhile. I tell Shaka to go soak his head. Xerxes doesn't have anything worth trading either - only 7 gold in the bank. We're up Construction on the latter and Philosophy, Currency, Monarchy, and Construction on the former.

    F5: "We should build the Colosseum in all cities and watch the people flock to us." Nuh-uh. (Colosseum is woefully inefficient in terms of shields per culture point.)

    F6: We're going Feudalism, due in 15. After that, I suggest pulling Monotheism; then we can either stop over for Chivalry or beeline for Astronomy. If we end up with the Lighthouse by that point, I would pick up Chivalry first, then go back and head for Gunpowder. By the time we are done with Feudalism and Monotheism, we should have a good idea what we need to research next.

    (My edit before even making the original post: Actually, let's cut back for Republic first, then worry about Monotheism.)

    As far as workers are concerned: Most of them appear to be in stacks of 3, which is good. There are a couple places where I can make that arrangement possible. Our core cities are quite well-developed, so my priority is to fill in holes in their development - probably by checking each one and making sure its most productive squares are improved. Then I will start to transfer workers to the southern and western lands. The sooner Old Japan is productive, the better.

    (I just heard echoes of Mahler's Fifth in his Fourth. The least he could have done was something original ;))

    My goal for these ten turns is to make progress in dealing with the Zulu. Ideally they will be gone by the end of my turn, but that feels very optimistic. I'd be pleased if I took out Mpondo and Bapedi and ended up on Isandhlwana's doorstep by the end of the turns. I also want to finish troop movements towards Persia so that attack can be started ASAP. The Great Leader will go to Salamanca for the time being, and we'll deal with him later.


    GK2: The Training Day Experiment

    Turn 1: 10 AD (It is the start of 10 AD, not the end of 10 BC; the MM changes listed first below happened at the start of my turn.)

    * I am concerned about all the marketplaces we are building. In a fair number of our cities they will hardly pay for themselves after they are built. The Zulu offensive might come up dry if we don't send reinforcements, but there doesn't appear to be a whole ton of them available. This should present an interesting challenge.
    Alerum made a good tactical point in his last post: galleys will give us quicker attacks on Zululand and Persia, which is especially useful for Persia, since we are trying to take Gordium and Susa ASAP. Based on this reasoning I make the following production changes:
    * Oil Springs: Market to Swordsman. Wastes two shields, but I don't have a whole lot of tools here, since it's going to be nigh-impossible to build anything any further away from the capital.
    * Akwesasne: Barracks to Galley. Wastes five shields, but our exploration efforts in the east are suddenly renewed, since we actually have a galley over there. (edit: I thought I made this move, but I report that a barracks was built here in turn 2, and I didn't have a galley move on turn 3. so I doubt I actually changed production here. I must've got caught up in how to save our new Zulu towns :))
    * Tyendenaga: Marketplace to Galley
    * Kahnawake: Market to Galley
    * Caughnawaga: Market to MW
    * Oka: Galley to MW
    * St. Regis: Aqueduct to MW. MM workers off of hills (W) and forest (2NW) onto coastal tiles, which nets us one extra beaker. Feudalism now due in 14 instead of 15.
    * Panama: Judgment call. If we are going to skirmish this way, it will be necessary to have a barracks. Hurrying it will cost 88 gold...I don't want to do that just yet because I intend to hurry some of the marketplaces we have in our core cities. That will help us get reinforcements to Zululand.
    * Cattaraugus: So corrupt that the biggest benefit of a market is the extra happy person. This benefit will be much bigger after we get silks from the old Persian lands. Switch to Spearman for immediate MP, or we will have a happiness (and defense) problem soon. Then we will build swordsmen here.
    * Chondote: It will take an eternity to finish the harbor here, and again, I can't really afford to rush it and rush anything else. Switch to swordsmen. It won't grow for a while, but there aren't many options: build a harbor (takes forever), build a courthouse to build everything else faster (also takes forever), or just pay for swordsmen (at least this helps the war effort).
    * Kagoshima: Leave this alone; the argument could be the same as for Chondote, but Kagoshima has more raw potential.
    * Zimbabwe: Temple to Swordsman. Culture isn't going to help if we're dead. I don't even care if the swordsmen are regular - even regular swords can kill things.
    * Tonawanda: The big allure of letting this city grow past size 6 is that it will suddenly generate more gold for itself than before from the FP squares. But the flood plains don't produce shields, the deserts hardly produce anything at all, and we might soon run into problems with happiness here. Besides, the city is not growing with the 11-shield arrangement anyway. Switch the Aqueduct to Swordsman.
    * Niagara Falls: It will finish its worker. Then we will have 33 workers for 26 cities and a big chunk of improvements already done.
    * Centralia: Market to MW.
    * Hlobane: The entertainer isn't doing anything particularly useful. Switch it to a tax collector.

    The western half of the cities - the ones still building markets - will hopefully be in position for a cash rush in a turn or two. Then they will build swordsmen which will, in turn, be shipped by galley from Kahnawake to Hlobane. I only hope we can hold on in the meantime.

    Now for individual troop movements.

    * MW in Caughnawana to Mauch Chunk, heading for Panama.
    * Leave galley in Kahnawake for now so it can ship reinforcements to Zululand.
    * Wake Shenandoah in Kahnawake and send him to Salamanca. Have him fortify there.
    * Worker team E of Kahnawake goes NE to the hill to mine then road it. It'll get galleys out one turn faster after it is worked.
    * No good answer for the settler in Niagara yet. Fortify him there for the time being.
    * Worker SE of Niagara SE-S-S to start forming a worker team.
    * Worker NE of Tonawanda SW-S-irrigate as part of the new worker team.
    * Gain control of swordsmen near Hlobane. There are three Zulu marauders near Hlobane. They are all regulars, but the three of them attacking Hlobane might present a problem. The attack on Mpondo will go off once we get reinforcements to that region, so I decide to go after these individual archers for now.

    Shaka is not exactly healthy in the industrial capacity department. His cities aren't in great land conditions and won't grow very quickly, so the more units we take out now, the worse off he will be - he has a hard time building more! We don't have to go after his production centers right away.

    * Regular swordsman attacks regular archer 2SW of Hlobane, flawless victory
    * 3/4 swordsman attacks regular archer 2W of Hlobane, down to 1/4 but hangs on for the comeback victory
    * Veteran swordsman attacks regular archer 2W of Hlobane, flawless victory for the archer who promotes (WHAT??) According to the combat calculator this has a 0% chance of happening. I seethe for a minute and then move on.
    * Thought: That archer is now too dangerous to attack with the regular we have left. It's losing a leader chance, but I make the tactical decision to attack that archer with one of the elites. Otherwise he will go for Hlobane. We don't have any veterans!! Elite swordsman attacks veteran archer 2W of Hlobane, goes to 3/5 but wins. Phew.
    * Leave the other two elites alone. I would put them on Mpondo's doorstep but I don't want them to win unnecessary battles - or get picked on by an archer crew with Superman in it. Mpondo isn't going anywhere.
    * Move the big stack of Zulu slaves NE of Zimbabwe NE towards Satsuma. Improving Zimbabwe more with roads isn't going to help; it probably won't help in Satsuma either, but at least now the workers aren't at risk of being picked off by that elite Archer.
    * Elite* swordsman 2NE of Zimbabwe moves W-S into Zimbabwe and fortifies, making me feel slightly better about Zimbabwe's defensive chances.
    * Fortify both settlers in Satsuma.
    * Move worker team 2SW of Osaka NE to road that forest.
    * Move sword W-SW of Osaka SE.
    * Move MW 2S of Mauch Chunk into Panama and fortify.
    * Spearman SW of Panama - what is this doing here? The workers must have been finishing a road without harassment from the Persians. Move him N by accident, not realizing that the three workers were still undertaking a task. Whoops.
    * Remain calm; unfortify a regular swordsman in Panama and send him to do defensive duty for this turn.
    * Worker team NW of Tyendenaga NE to forest.

    Turn is over. Cross fingers.
  4. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001

    IBT: The elite archer attacks our Elite* swordsman and wins, but now he only has 3 HP left and our veteran spearman has a better chance. I feel bad about the swordsman, but at least we don't have to recapture Zimbabwe. (need...more...units)

    A warrior runs in along the road network and captures workers next to Hlobane. That's okay, we can get them back next turn, so no worries. Just lost a couple worker turns. (need...more...units)

    Niagara Falls: Worker -> swordsman
    Satsuma: Spearman -> swordsman
    Cattaraugus: Happiness situation looking up already. Spearman -> swordsman
    Oil Springs: Swordsman -> swordsman
    Tonawanda: Swordsman -> swordsman
    St. Regis: MW -> MW
    Centralia: MW -> MW
    Akwesasne: Barracks -> MW


    Turn 2 (30 AD)

    F1 check: Move in Kyoto looks like it'll work out okay. Everywhere else seems to be very happy. So happy, in fact, that I try setting luxuries at 10%. Grand River, which is size 9, complains, but I figure this is a small price to pay. It will get its marketplace soon and that will help the happiness problem. Lift worker off of the floodplain SE of Grand River; no growth, but that's not a bad thing, considering that we were having happiness problems there.

    Hlobane grew in the interturn. It has no tiles which can be worked for shield production (!!). Remove its citizen from the floodplain the workers are on and make it a tax collector.

    Everything else looks kosher in the happiness department.

    Now we make 19 gold per turn.

    * MW in Centralia to Mauch Chunk
    * Worker S of Tonawanda told to irrigate, job is done immediately. For some reason Tonawanda reports swordsman in 4 even though it is producing exactly 10 shields. Your guess is as good as mine. Move other two workers S-SW to do one irrigation near Oka.
    * Sword in Tonawanda (YEAH!!) to Niagara Falls.
    * Worker in Niagara Falls moves N-NW-N (joining worker team NE of Oil Springs.)
    * Galley in Kahnawake waits again.
    * Workers 2N of Niagara Falls roads.
    * Sword in Oil Springs (YEAH!! revisited) to Kahnawake.
    * Worker team NW of Kagoshima moves SE-S. They will road and mine here, then chop the forest to accelerate the courthouse production. There are mined hills nearby so production here shouldn't be a problem.
    * Worker team SW of Osaka roads.
    * Worker team S-SW of Osaka roads.
    * 3/4 swordsman 2SW of Osaka S-S-S. (pleasedon'tlethimgetpickedoff)
    * Spearman in Satsuma SW-S-W, one square away from Zimbabwe. Curse under my breath. We might not be able to keep the city.
    * Worker team SW-S of Satsuma up to bat again. Move them all NE for a road/mine.
    * Hoo boy. Time to deal with the unpleasant tactical realities of the Hlobane situation. Select the regular warrior 2SW of Hlobane and attack the warrior 1W of Hlobane. Lose 1 HP but we promote, so at least SOME good came out of this.
    * MW in Mauch Chunk to Panama. The goal of putting these warriors here is to start a sea-based offensive as well as a land-based one. For that we will need galleys in Panama, but they can be built elsewhere and shipped here.
    * Worker team S of St. Regis mines.
    * MW in St. Regis to 1S of Mauch Chunk.
    * Worker team SW of Panama N. Wake the sword that was guarding them and send him into Panama.
    * Fortify the spearman NW of Panama.
    * Worker team N of Tyendenaga roads.
    * Spearman in Cattaraugus fortifies.
    * 3/5 elite sword 2W of Hlobane waits for healing.
    * 1/4 vet sword SW-W of Hlobane recaptures workers.
    * New workers both move NW.
    * 5/5 elite sword SW-W of Hlobane moves E to defend his injured partner.
    * Last 5/5 elite sword SW-W of Hlobane fortifies for the moment. We are in desperate need of reinforcements. At the interturn we are likely to lose Zimbabwe. I only hope we can retake it...with luck, the spearman will be able to take down one of the attackers and leave the other for our swordsman to handle. Or maybe we will get phenomenally lucky.

    One last F1 check reveals that everything is still in order. Take a deep, deep breath and hit the Enter key.


    IBT: WHOA!! The elite archer NW of Zimbabwe picks off the spearman north of the town instead of attacking the town! This leaves the veteran archer, who loses to our spearman in Zimbabwe. Morale is high as we do not lose the town. There is no unit stack on the archer and I didn't see anyone run off, so I assume Shaka didn't get a great leader for his trouble.

    That spearman wasn't fortified, so he must have assessed the odds were better. Wow! I feel lucky.


    Turn 3 (50 AD)

    Stop celebrating and hit F1. Grand River, the problem child where happiness was concerned, is still doing OK. Its market is due in four turns.

    Kyoto, for reasons unbeknownst to me, is now doing better in the happiness department. Better enough that I can switch its entertainer to a different profession. Feudalism is due in 12 whether he's a scientist or not, so I make a tax collector. Up to +20 gpt. Hlobane insistently tries to work tiles; leave them working on the wheat and nothing else and make another tax collector. 21 gpt.

    * Swordsman in Niagara to Kahnawake.
    * Load other sword in Kahnawake into the galley that's already there. Have that galley wait for the time being. (There will be a galley built in the interturn, so we could have gone ahead and sent this one. But I wait a turn so the second galley can go to Panama immediately. The situation in Zululand appears to be a wee bit more stable, so I think I can afford to wait a turn.)
    * Worker S of Oil Springs NE of Oil Springs, chops trees.
    * Worker team S of Kagoshima builds a road.
    * Worker team S-SW of Osaka moves to forest NW of Osaka.
    * Worker team S of Satsuma starts work. Three workers road and two of them start a mine. (Having all five road would not get the work done any faster.)
    * Dial up the Combat Calculator on a swordsman-attacking-archer-on-mountain scenario to see if we can pick off that elite Archer. The calculator gives an 80% chance of victory. On the other hand it also said that an event that occurred had a probability of 0%. That archer is not really a threat to Zimbabwe, but I might get a promotion...hmm...go ahead and attack. Swordsman N of Zimbabwe attacks 1 HP archer to SW and wins easily. That was quick.
    * Captured workers W of Hlobane start a road.
    * 3/4 swordsman W of Hlobane fortifies to heal.
    * 1/4 swordsman SW of Hlobane fortifies to heal.
    * 5/5 swordsman SW of Hlobane moves SW.
    * 4/5 swordsman 2W of Hlobane moves S. This encroachment is part to gain information about Mpondo and part to keep Shaka from improving or working his plains tiles. There is an Impi in Mpondo.
    * Wake 5/5 swordsman SW-W of Hlobane and move him S.
    * Workers SE of Oka start a road.
    * Worker S of Tonawanda moves to join them.
    * MW in Mauch Chunk to Panama and fortifies.
    * MW S of Mauch Chunk to Panama and fortifies.
    * First seven workers NE of Panama build a mine. Everyone else roads.
    * Worker stack NW of Panama starts to clear jungle.

    One last F1 check. Looks good, let's party.


    Shaka sends an archer to look at one of our elite swordsman. Boy he looks tempting.

    Kahnawake: Galley -> galley. This galley is headed for Panama.


    Turn 4 (70 AD)

    F1 check: Lots of smiley faces and not enough frowny ones to cause a problem. We're still at 10% lux. I check, but running 0% lux is just too daring at this point.
    I can get Feudalism in 7 by bumping up the science rate, but this would require heading for the red. We're going to be cash rushing things later so I decide to maintain a profit. Tax rate is 5.4.1.

    * Grand River completes its marketplace in 3 turns, Salamanca does it next turn. I rush the marketplace in Grand River, part so we can get the entertainer working again, and part so that I can have it build units to ship over to Zululand. If we absolutely have to we can send extra swords back towards Persia. I have to part with 100 gold to do this, but at least it's for a noble cause.
    * Leroy Anderson's "The Syncopated Clock" gets stuck in my head. I load up a Tchaikovsky symphony to remedy the problem and press on.
    * Two workers SE of Salamanca irrigate. The third moves SW of Akwasasne to help with the mine.
    * Worker team S of St. Regis moves into Mauch Chunk. They will help clear the nasty terrain near Camp Mistic.
    * Back to that worker team NE of Panama. First slave off the stack finishes the road. Move everyone else NE to start a new project.
    * Worker team N of Tyendenaga moves 3SW. They will head for the northern and western lands to help with improvements there. The core is more or less maxed out in terms of improvements. It's time to work the newer land.
    * Load the other sword into the Kahnawake galley. Select the loaded galley and move 3S.
    * Disaster strikes! The other cities are building swordsmen so quickly that we will need the Panama-bound galley to help ship them. Hmm...I'll go ahead and send this one. I will cash rush the other galley when the swordsmen become available. Galley Kahnawake moves 3S.
    * More worker turns. Workers E-NE of Kahnawake start a mine.
    * Workers south of Kagoshima start a mine.
    * Workers NW of Osaka start a road.
    * Get control of the vet sword NW of Zimbabwe and immediately crack a huge smile. Shaka's idiocy allowed me to salvage what would otherwise have been a difficult situation. I am tempted to send him towards Ulundi, but as I said in some post somewhere, Ulundi isn't going anywhere anytime soon. We can cut back for it last. Move this swordsman SE into Zimbabwe.
    * 4/4 sword W of Hlobane moves S. The injured sword can defend the workers. Our territory boundaries give us advance warning if bad things head our way. Besides, I think Shaka is going to try to spend his troops kicking us out of his territory. Muahaha.
    * 2/4 sword SW of Hlobane moves NW.
    * 5/5 sword 2SW of Hlobane moves S.
    * 4/5 sword N of Mpondo attacks 3/3 archer 2NW of Mpondo. He's down to 2 HP but wins.

    I know you guys might not like the idea of me doing all this attacking with elites, and I'll admit that great leaders are very useful. But we've got Shaka on the ropes, and the fact that we are "wasting chances to get a leader" - which is an unlikely occurrence anyway - is not, IMHO, a good enough reason not to take down Shaka's last few troops.

    * 5/5 sword NE of Mpondo fortifies. No pillaging because we will use this road later. He can't work the tile when we are standing on it.
    * Last worker SE of Oka roads. Other two workers irrigate.

    One last F1 check, everyone is happy. Well, not everyone, but enough people.

    I've probably missed some MM opportunities in cities here and there :/ hopefully this won't absolutely slay us.



    The Zulu have requested an audience. This should be good for a laugh.
    He will not give up all his cities but one for peace. This displeases me, so I tell him to forget it.

    Taking down that archer must have eliminated enough of his military that he feels quite threatened by our glorious armies waiting outside his towns. More swordsmen are on the way to help clean up.

    Salamanca: Marketplace -> Swordsman
    Grand River: Zoom to city. Sure enough, the marketplace has created a happy bonus that allows us to work the forest tile E-SE of the city. Switch to swordsmen for the time being.
    Edo: Temple -> worker
    Tyendenaga: Galley (YEAH!!) -> Galley


    Turn 5 (90 AD)

    F1 check! The new marketplaces have increased out income to +26 from +20, even though we built some new units. I do a little calculating here to see if we can alternate between 40 and 50 percent on science, thus getting Feudalism faster while still turning a small profit. It doesn't look like we will get it any faster than we will at the 40% rate with this artificial 45% rate, though, so I leave the science slider alone.

    Cattaraugus has grown to size 9 in the meantime. I switch it back to a marketplace, since Salamanca and Grand River are now back to building units.

    The eastern cities building swords have MWs in the offing, don't worry. I'm just getting one last batch of swords in order first.

    * Galley in Tyendenaga S-S-S. We're going to get some exploring out of him on the way to Panama.
    * Worker team 1N of Akwesasne SW-S.
    * Worker SW of Akwesasne helps with the mining project.
    * Worker SE of Oka irrigates.
    * Plain galley 3S of Kahnawake moves S-SE-S.
    * Loaded galley moves S-W-SW.
    * Wake the individual swordsmen in the loaded galley and move them W. Now they are SW of Hlobane.
    * Fortify 2/4 swordsman W of Hlobane.
    * Move 4/4 swordsman 2SW of Hlobane S.
    * Fortify 5/5 swordsman E of Mpondo. All the pieces will be in place in two moves. Then it will be possible to sack Mpondo and move towards Bapedi.
    * 2/5 swordsman SE-E of Bapedi moves S. Zulu made a worker in the meantime, Bapedi is now size 1.
    * 3/4 swordsman in Zimbabwe moves SE-S.
    * Workers S of Satsuma start a mine.
    * Workers SW of Osaka...made an error with these. I want to chop the trees here but I should have gone ahead and done that before building the road. Oh well. Start a tree chop here. I think we will get enough production from the mined grasslands. If we don't, well, there's always forestry.
    * Worker team in Mauch Chunk moves S-SW.
    * Worker team SW of Camp Mistic starts to clear the jungle.

    Final F1 check. All is well. MM worker in Tonawanda off hills E of the town onto the irrigated floodplain N of the town to get extra food for an instant.

    Take a stretch break before pressing Enter.



    An archer appears out of the Persian city of Tyre. Just what is he up to?

    Niagara Falls: Swordsman -> MW
    Oil Springs: Swordsman -> MW
    Tonawanda: Swordsman -> MW

  5. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    Turn 6 (110 AD)

    F1 check: Looks as though we're still doing okay on the happiness front. I can still get Feudalism faster by going 4.5.1, but I would prefer to wait until the war is over and we can get back some unit costs to keep us from losing money. I want to make money instead so I can rush things, like the galley I'm going to rush this turn.

    * Zoom to Kahnawake and pay 80 gold for a galley. We can load two swords into this galley next turn and send them to Zululand to help complete the offensive.
    * Sword in Tonawanda to Niagara.
    * Sword in Niagara to Kahnawake. (He couldn't load this turn anyway, so we saved 20 gold by waiting to rush that galley.)
    * Sword in Oil Springs to Kahnawake.
    * Mining work complete near Kagoshima. Move the worker on the forest to the new road/mine grassland tile. Move the worker stack S of Kagoshima W to the forest.
    * Gain control of the stack NW of Osaka. Move it S-S-SE for a road/mine near Satsuma. (Leaving the other forest available will give extra production to Osaka once it has a courthouse/police station.)
    * Move the swordsman S-SE of Zimbabwe SE-S.
    * Move the worker team W of Hlobane SE.
    * Wake the 3/4 swordsman who was guarding that worker team and move him S. I am not going to directly defend the worker team at this point, because I am convinced that Shaka is out of units to come after us with (no more archers have come our way and he asked for a peace treaty).
    * Move the swordsmen SW of Hlobane SW. The assault on Mpondo looks like it will start on Turn 8. Then we will just have to sweep up the Zulu.
    * Galley SE of Hlobane NE-E-N.
    * Galley W of Oka S-SE-E.
    * Worker team SE of Oka moves NE and starts to irrigate.
    * Worker team SE of Salamanca into Salamanca. They are heading northwest.
    * Change of plans for the worker team SW of Akwesasne. They are headed south to clear jungle instead. Fortunately this isn't a huge net loss of time. Move them SW-S-SE.
    * Move galley 3SE of Akwesasne E-S-SW. As I said, darned if I don't get any exploring out of this galley.
    * Start worker team S-SW of Mauch Chunk clearing jungle.
    * Have last worker SW of Camp Mistic clear jungle.
    * 4/4 swordsman E of Mpondo fortifies. Almost there...almost there...
    * 2/5 swordsman W of Mpondo fortifies. Almost there...

    F1 looks fine. Let's move.


    IBT: Zulu are definitely on the ropes, no troop movement anywhere nearby.

    Centralia: MW -> Galley
    Akwesasne: MW -> Spearman (for iron pillaging duty)
    Kahnawake: Galley -> Galley


    Turn 7 (130 AD)

    F1 check: It's all good. Feudalism in 8, +20 gpt.

    * Load both swordsmen in Kahnawake into the new galley.
    * Send that galley S-S-S.
    * Worker team NE of Oil Springs mines.
    * Worker team 2SW of Kagoshima chops.
    * Worker team NW of Satsuma roads.
    * Worker team S of Satsuma moves W.
    * Worker team SW of Hlobane roads.
    * Gain control of a 3/4 sword 2SW of Hlobane. At this point there is an interesting decision to be made: do I try to smite the Zulu with elites now or wait one more turn?

    Again, I will be "wasting potential great leader chances," but what else were these elites going to be doing? Sitting there? They don't win any battles otherwise. I can send the veterans west to Bapedi for promotion chances; since it is the capital, Shaka is likely to prioritize its defense.

    * 3/4 sword 2SW of Hlobane waits to regain a hit point.
    * 4/4 swords 2SW of Hlobane (two of them) move W. They are a backup option for taking out Mpondo if that becomes necessary.
    * 3/4 sword SW-W of Hlobane waits to regain a hit point.
    * Loaded galley 3SW of Niagar moves S-W-SW, but it doesn't make a delivery at this point. We will cut to the south and drop off closer to Bapedi. This is far faster than moving one square at a time, and in fact I should have done it before with the troops I dropped near Hlobane.
    * Oops, crap, had the wrong galley. The UNLOADED galley moves S-W-E and loses a turn :( Gosh crap darn.
    * Wake the troops near Mpondo, we've got a war to fight.
    * 2/5 elite sword W of Mpondo attacks 3/3 Impi and wins, losing 1 HP (1 left).
    * 4/4 veteran sword E of Mpondo attacks 3/3 Impi and loses, doing no damage. @#%*.
    * 5/5 elite sword E of Mpondo attacks 3/3 Impi and loses, doing 1 damage. Impi promotes.
    * 5/5 elite sword NE of Mpondo attacks 3/4 Impi and wins, losing 3 HP (2 left).
    * Mpondo is sacked and razed, we get 5 gold. Stupid Impi screwing up my elite units! Gahh!
    * Immediately switch Satsuma to a spearman and rush it for 60 gold. It will escort a settler down to the old location of Mpondo. For now I'll hold it with the elite sword who took the city.
    * Sword in Niagara Falls to Kahnawake.
    * Galley S-SE of Oka moves S-E-E.
    * MW in Centralia to Mauch Chunk.
    * Galley 2NE of Centralia E-S-W.
    * Worker team E of Salamanca moves N, with the idea of roading the forest.
    * Worker team in Salamanca moves W-W-N.
    * Worker team SW of Akwesasne moves E to clear the forest.
    * MW in Akwesasne moves to 1W of Centralia.

    F1 checks out fine (my edit afterwards: no it doesn't, didn't look carefully enough). Salamanca is going to waste some shields, but there aren't really any good squares to move a citizen to.


    IBT: CRAP! Missed a riot in Zimbabwe. Grr. Time for damage control: lift citizen off the mined, unroaded BG. We'll lose a turn here, but that swordsman wasn't building fast anyway. My bad...

    Salamanca: Swordsman -> MW
    Grand River: Swordsman -> MW
    Satsuma: Spearman -> Barracks


    Turn 8 (150 AD)

    Check F1 very, very carefully. Zimbabwe was problematic because it had just been captured and still had indigenous people in it. I think we'll recover. I am supremely confident that there are no other problems.

    * Wake a settler in Satsuma and send it along with the new spearman S-SW-W. We're headed for Old Mpondo.
    * Worker team NW of Satsuma mines.
    * Worker team 2SW of Satsuma roads.
    * Vet sword 2SW of Hlobane moves W.
    * Vet sword SW-W of Hlobane moves W.
    * Vet sword SW-SW-W of Hlobane moves W. (There are two of them, they both move.)
    * 2/5 swordsman fortifies.
    * 1/5 swordsman fortifies.
    * Empty galley (pfffft) 3NW of Oka moves SE-S-SE.
    * Full galley 3SW of Niagara moves S-SW-W. Once again, we're headed for the shores of Bapedi.
    * Worker team 2NE of Niagara moves N-NW-NW.
    * Worker team 2N of Niagara moves NE and start a mine.
    * Extra swordsman in Kahnawake. I will have him fortify for now; someone can come back and get him with a galley, or take him to Panama with the next galley.
    * Worker team 2NE of Salamanca roads.
    * Sword in Salamanca to Niagara. Actually, maybe a cash rush for that last galley is in order.
    * MW W of Centralia to Mauch Chunk.
    * Galley E of Centralia is up. This is my favorite unit because it's exploring. I keep finding myself anxious to move it every turn. :) S-E-SW is the order of the day.
    * MW in Mauch Chunk to Panama.
    * Galley 2S of Caughnawaga moves S-SE-E.
    * Worker team E of Oka moves N of Caughnawaga.
    * Sword in Grand River to Salamanca.
    * Worker team SE of Akwesane starts chopping.
    * First four workers off the stack road, and Camp Mistic is officially part of the network! MM a citizen off the coast tile S of Camp Mistic and move him onto the now-functional grassland. All other workers in this stack start a mine.

    Take a break here for a snack.

    One last check...and...enter.


    IBT: Woo-hah! Shaka sends an archer to attack one of our vet swords, but the sword has a flawless defense and then promotes. Order is restored to Zimbabwe...can't believe I dropped the ball on that one.

    Niagara: MW -> Marketplace
    Oil Springs: MW -> Spearman
    Caughnawaga: MW -> Marketplace

    I feel much better about building markets now that we have some extra troops. These can, of course, be vetoed by the "next better player" if it is deemed necessary.


    Turn 9 (170 AD)

    F1 check reveals nothing. Don't think I missed any this time. Feudalism in 6, +18 per turn.

    * MW in Caughnawaga to Mauch Chunk.
    * Worker team N of Caughnawaga starts a road.
    * My favorite galley 2NE of St. Regis moves SE-SE-SW.
    * MW in Mauch Chunk to Panama.
    * Galley SW-SW-S of Mauch Chunk moves SW-S-SE.
    * First worker off the stack SW of Camp Mistic finishes a mine. Rest of the stack moves NW.
    * Sword in Niagara to Kahnawake.
    * MW in Niagara to E of Tonawanda.
    * Worker team SE of Oil Springs moves 3NE.
    * MW in Oil Springs moves 1N of Tonawanda.
    * Sword in Salamanca to Niagara.
    * Worker team SW of Osaka mines.
    * Spearman/settler N of Zimbabwe move to the hill SE-S of the town.
    * Vet sword 2E of Bapedi moves W. (Cue Jaws music.)
    * Vet sword SE-E-E of Bapedi moves W.
    * Vet sword SE-E of Bapedi moves W.
    * Elite :D sword SE-E of Bapedi moves W. Yay, I might get to attack Bapedi as my last action.
    * Galley SE of Hlobane moves SW-S-SW.
    * Galley SW of Oka moves SE-SE-E.

    F1 check one more time. I still can't do anything clever with the science rate (other than delay Feudalism by a turn), so I leave that alone. Hit enter.


    IBT: Xerxes keeps moving warriors and galleys around Sidon, but he hasn't done anything to us yet.

    Akwesasne: Spearman -> Galley (suicide galley)
    Tyendenaga: Galley -> Galley (suicide galley)

    There are four galleys heading towards Panama. New ones are intended for suicide scouting.


    Turn 10 (190 AD)

    F1 check: I think we're still okay, but the next player had best check.

    * Galley from Tyendenaga S-S-S.
    * Spearman from Akwesasne SW-S-SE.
    * Worker team 2NE of Salamanca to hill NW-N of Centralia. (Centralia will have to work this tile after it grows.)
    * MW N of Tonawanda to 1E of Caughnawana.
    * ME E of Tonawanda to 2E of Caughnawana.
    * Galley 2SE of Caughnawana SE-SE-SE.
    * Sword in Niagara to Kahnawake.
    * Sword in Kahnawake fortifies. I consider cash rushing a galley, but the next player can judge this for himself. It depends part on how the Battle of Bapedi goes.
    * Worker team NE of Oil Springs into Tokyo.
    * Worker team S of Tokyo N-NW-NW.
    * Worker team NW of Satsuma S-S-SW.
    * Worker team NE-N of Zimbabwe mines.
    * Spearman/settler combo W-NW-NW of Hlobane moves SE-S.
    * Worker team near Hlobane irrigates.
    * Vet sword SE-E of Bapedi moves W. He won't attack this turn. I am going to do something risky: I am going to attack without an overwhelming superiority, and put my trust into the RNG.
    * Vet sword E of Bapedi attacks 3/3 Impi in Bapedi and wins, losing 1 HP (now 3).
    * Vet sword SE of Bapedi attacks 3/3 Impi in Bapedi and wins, losing 2 HP (now 2).
    * Elite sword SE of Bapedi attacks 3/3 Impi in Bapedi and loses. The Impi promotes, but he lost 2 HP, so now he's at 4. He is the strongest defender left in Bapedi, so one of our swords should be able to take it next turn.
    * Loaded galley south of Hlobane moves W-W-W.
    * MW in Mauch Chunk moves to Panama.
    * Galley west of Panama moves to Panama.
    * Worker team W of Camp Mistic chops.
    * Galley SE-E of St. Regis moves S-S-S.

    That's about it! First ten turns of GK2 done! Woo!

    I'll write the post-turn report and make screenshots right away.
    And post the save.
  6. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    Post-turn assessment:

    Here's my original goals.
    "My goal for these ten turns is to make progress in dealing with the Zulu. Ideally they will be gone by the end of my turn, but that feels very optimistic. I'd be pleased if I took out Mpondo and Bapedi and ended up on Isandhlwana's doorstep by the end of the turns. I also want to finish troop movements towards Persia so that attack can be started ASAP. The Great Leader will go to Salamanca for the time being, and we'll deal with him later."


    I managed to repulse the Zulu counterattack. Now Shaka is building archers and sending them out one at a time against our swordsmen. I pressed the attack and razed Mpondo; we will resettle it in a couple of turns. I also nearly took Bapedi but had a dose of bad RNG luck. At one point, a regular archer took down a vet sword, suffering no damage, which was quite frustrating.

    There are 5 swords hanging around Bapedi and two more on the way on the galley. This should be enough to take Bapedi, hold it, and (hopefully) roll through the rest of the Zulu cities.

    Early on in these turns I dropped the luxury rate to 10%. Only one city needed further management after that, and our income rose from 10 to 20 gold per turn. At the end of the turns, we are at +17, so I think I was successful economically. Feudalism is due in 5.

    The "send mounted warriors and galleys to Panama" project was successful with some extra help from the treasury. We started at around 370 gold and ended at 310; in exchange, we have four galleys headed for Panama (one is already there, even) and there are 22 MWs in the town (there were 13 at the start of the turns). There are also 2 more MWs on the way for a total of 24!

    Goals for the next player, in no particular order:
    1. Restart the marketplace projects in the core of our empire. I tried to stagger the marketplace builds so we could build units and got marketplaces online in Salamanca and Grand River. Continue these infrastructure builds.
    2. Sack Bapedi.
    3. Find a way to get the troops sitting in Kahnawake to the Zulu front. You can rush the galley there and send swords in it.
    4. Take the galleys that are distributed on the coasts (one near Akwesasne, one near Camp Mistic, and one near Mauch Chunk) and move them into Panama to set up the Gordium Offensive.
    5. Resettle Mpondo. There is a fortified swordsman (he is the healthier one, when you get the save) where Mpondo once stood and it seems like as good a spot for a city as any.
    6. Finish transporting the spearmen in the main part of our lands to Panama. They'll have to walk. They can deal.
    7. Continue clearing jungle terrain next to Camp Mistic.
    8. Your great leader is in Salamanca, we'll see if we can decide what to do with him.

    Other than that, you're on your own!

    Thanks to the existing team and trainers for letting me join. These turns were a lot of fun to play!


    Our empire:

    And, of course, the > > > SAVE < < <
  7. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

    Dec 29, 2002
    Check Six!

    ...and the award for most detailed turnlog to date goes to....
  8. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

    Jun 20, 2003

    That is quite the turn log dude.
  9. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    I'm glad I took so many notes. It really helped me to think clearly about everything that was going on. I would write something before I did it and decide whether it looked stupid - usually that was enough to keep me from doing anything boneheaded. (Well, except for that incident with Zimbabwe. But hey, you do what you can.)

    I think they were a successful ten turns. We'll be ready to go after Persia very soon.
  10. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

    Jun 20, 2003
    I think you are starting to see the value of markets. IMHO, markets are probably the most valuable building you could build. With enough luxes, your people will be doing backflips. Not only does the market increase your national budget directly, but it allows you to run a lower lux slider thus increasing your national budget indirectly.

    As for using Elite units. In this situation, you didn't have a choice. You made the correct decision to attack with the best units available.
  11. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

    Jun 20, 2003
    So if Gengis is about, I think it is your turn to shadow. Hopefully, he's not on the beach :rolleyes:
  12. alerum68

    alerum68 Priest of Hiroshima

    Jan 3, 2004
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Great turn SG! I'm about half way through your turn log, but it appears as if things went about as I planned. Great choices on which city to put those marketplaces into, and unit builds were perfect. Will finish rest of the turn log in a bit, but I only have one thing to say... No way, not a chance, will my turn log be this detailed.:p
  13. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Apr 5, 2004
    Northern Michigan
    :worship::worship::worship::worship: <--- i dont know if they are worshiping or doing the wave...

    Now that is a turn log, my friend!!!!

    great turns a a great read!
  14. Gengis Khan

    Gengis Khan Deity

    Jun 13, 2003
    Wilmington, NC
    Excellent looking turns GJ! And the write up is far & away the best I've ever seen.

    But before they get shadowed I just want to chime in my 2c about a post from a day ago.

    Gotta disagree with you there, while armies got a major overhaul in C3C their still very strong when used well otherwise. Offensive armies are great as long as you plan your strategy accordingly, if you pop an early leader during a sword/archer war a swordman army can single handedly take over nations. Having an empty army waiting for you to finish those last couple turns of Chiv, and throwing if full of knights can reduce your losses big time during that period where attackers & defenders have the edge. And a Cavelry army owns the battlefield until Mech Infs.

    My only real problem with pre-C3C armies is that healing is horrible.

    Tough call. Which is more valuble? Turning off lux now and saving a bit of gold until we hook up those extra Zulu/Persian lux, or making contact X number of turns earlier? The Gardens you know what you're getting, a very obvious savings in a bit of gold. The Lighthouse on the other hand isn't cut & dry. It will definatly save us time & a couple galleys(at least), which means more sheilds going into better improvements instead of the bottom of the Ocean. But what if the other island is ahead of us(which is very probably since we slowed down research so much), we're completly self researching at this point because Xerxes is behind us. What if we could research Engineering instead of Fuedalism and trade, because they dont' have it. You can't put a doller sign on being the only tech broker between Civs(as we tried to show by preventing Japan/Zulu from meeting Persia). Granted we'll eventually find them anyways, but it's something to consider.

    Actually, IMHO the FP is the last thing we should go with. It requires holding on to the leader for the majority of the war(or at least the the majority of the battles) seriously reducing our chances at another one. If we had another Civ on our continent and could go after them for another one, then that's one thing, but since we can't go to war again until the Industial Age it's worth the shot(again IMHO) to try for a second.

    Free movement throough sea squares is huge, remember you only have a 50% chance of sinking in Oceans. I can't count the number of times I've sent galley after galley and when one finally made it across and spotted a border....... it had to stop 1 tile short of contact and then sank in the sea square. Even if we have 6 ocean squares between us, with 3 galleys the RNG gods are in our favor.

    Not that I'm saying the FP wouldn't be great, I think you're just selling the alternatives short.
  15. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    After playing my turns, I feel strongly that the Gardens aren't the way to go here. We don't really have a happiness problem, we're getting back to adding marketplaces to our cities now that our army is a little more sizable, and when we annex Persia, we'll have our fourth luxury. Four luxes w/markets is six happy faces...I think we can manage without one extra content person.

    The difference between 0% and 10% is about 15 gpt, which is a fair chunk of change. But I think we can make that skip by doing something we were going to do anyway, which calls into question the value of the Gardens.

    (As an aside, maybe this will get me up to 0.06 posts per day from 0.05 :D)
  16. alerum68

    alerum68 Priest of Hiroshima

    Jan 3, 2004
    San Francisco, California, United States
    It seems you'd prefer the option of an army because it'll clear the leader quickly, allowing us to go for another one. I just don't believe creating an army will do anything for us at this point in the game. Do you really see much combat after annex our contient? Not in a space race. I honestly feel the benifts of waiting 10-15 turns and using the leader then outweighs all other benfits the others have. With the stragium I laid out in the post, it allows us to move our leader quickly to the proper site for the FP, and having the leader used before we see to much battle. We're talking attacking 3 cities with the leader still around... will have several more chances, especially considering all the MW we have are only vetern, and not likely to promote to elite and win another battle before we take those 3 cities. The delay isn't that great especially for the benfits we'll recieve.
  17. coletite

    coletite Warlord

    Dec 26, 2003
    Portland, OR
    Ok, a new option has been brought to the table: build an army and wait for knights. Although my number 1 preference is still the lighthouse, I'd take the empty army as number 2.
  18. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    We're still short a few techs on knights - Chivalry is the most obvious, but we also don't have Feudalism or Monotheism (the prereqs) yet. And we should probably cut back and develop Republic if we are going to be researching it soon.

    If we could just get to a point where we were making more money, we could shave a few turns off all of these by bringing science up a little bit. Maybe disbanding excess swords after the Zulu war?

    Anyway - building an army and waiting for knights would have an even longer wait than taking Susa and building the FP, unless we found some clever way to rapidly increase research output. The only real benefit the army confers is getting the leader out of the way, and we're still going to be running around for a while with veteran MWs in the Persia assault.

    Just something to consider.

    We do have a few elites in Zululand, but I don't think there will be many more battles fought there. (Bapedi is on the ropes and I doubt he's got much else.)
  19. coletite

    coletite Warlord

    Dec 26, 2003
    Portland, OR
    Yes, we'd have to wait for the army to be useful, but we would still have a chance at another leader.

    [edit] Another argument for Lighthouse: if we are doubling back to get Republic, that is even longer before Astronomy. Plus, there is a good chance we could just buy Republic from one of the other civs.
  20. GJ

    GJ Not a mob member

    May 28, 2001
    Some extra post-turn things that occurred to me:

    1. I didn't do any diplo checks because I was so caught up in building things :( Hopefully Xerxes has not gotten anywhere. I know Shaka hasn't, he's been too busy getting kicked around the map.
    2. The galleys heading out of our east coast cities should definitely do exploring duty. I noted this when they were built but not in the goals for the next player. You might even try sending one around to Nara and exploring from that direction.

    Four galleys is enough for six MWs and two spears to Gordium to take the iron and the city. Send more at your discretion, but bear in mind that the more we use for that the fewer we have for our land-based assault.

    3. Investigating Persepolis waaaay back when revealed that there are five spears defending the town. Two or three defenders for border towns doesn't seem unreasonable given that number.
    4. One other thing to consider with the leader is hanging on to it for an extended period of time on the conclusion that there's nothing better to build with it. I don't think we'll do this here - if we don't get the FP, we'll be building the Tybee Island Lighthouse somewhere instead :) - but there's always Sun Tzu's, Magellan's, or a middle age science wonder. Or the Hoover Dam, but I really don't want to wait that long :)
    5. Fuel for the wonder discussion - are ANY happiness wonders a terrific idea at this point? Once we're in Republic, have marketplaces, and have taken Persia, we'll have plenty of money to run a 10-20% lux tax and we'll have four lux resources...that seems like an awful lot keeping our people in line until Sanitation comes around.

    I wonder if I killed the thread - it's been pretty quiet since I did that turnlog :blush: :p

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