Mistfit
Deity
I believe Alerum was going to do the next ten turns yes?
GK2- The Training Day Experiment
- Thread starter Gengis Khan
- Start date
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Yesterday I was asked to shadow the next turnset. I don't recall if there is a turnset that needs shadowing at the moment, or if I am to shadow an upcoming turnset.
Give me an hour or three to unwind after playing a ... "challenging" set of turns this morning in Bede's little Demi-God slugfest, and I'll tend to matters in this thread as needed.
Edit: I just did finish posting the log after those turns...
Give me an hour or three to unwind after playing a ... "challenging" set of turns this morning in Bede's little Demi-God slugfest, and I'll tend to matters in this thread as needed.
Edit: I just did finish posting the log after those turns...
Mistfit
Deity
To keep things even I thinks it should go Alerum ---> SK ---> Mistfit
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Based on the last order-of-go that Bugsy posted, this is the order as I understand it:Mistfit said:
alerum68 - Warming up
coletite -
GJ - Just played
qm1- MIA (at sea?)
Mistfit- UP
SolarKnight - On Deck
I do seem to remember some discussion of a swap in there, and I'm not certain this is reflected in the order above. I've got it posted here so that Bugsy can modify it as required...
I've got GJ's log and Coletite's save... I'll try to get this shadowed tonight so we can keep this game rolling.
DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
scoutsout said:Yesterday I was asked to shadow the next turnset. I don't recall if there is a turnset that needs shadowing at the moment, or if I am to shadow an upcoming turnset.
Give me an hour or three to unwind after playing a ... "challenging" set of turns this morning in Bede's little Demi-God slugfest, and I'll tend to matters in this thread as needed.
Edit: I just did finish posting the log after those turns...
GJ's Round 14 (10AD-190AD) needs to be shadowed.
Your roster order was correct also.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Gator is right, GJ's turns need to be shadowed.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@ Sir Bugsy: I started shadowing GJs turns yesterday afternoon, and will try to finish up tonight.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Pre-flight check:
I spent a lot of time in pre-flight check, picking apart build order changes. (These were mostly Market-to-Unit changes.) As the game (and log) progressed, it became apparent to me that the power of the Marketplace was coming into focus for GJ, as the end of the log has this little gem:
Goals for the next player, in no particular order:
1. Restart the marketplace projects in the core of our empire.
You (we) all need to be careful about sweeping changes to build orders in Succession Games. If you find yourself making more than a few, it might be a Good Idea to stop the game, log onto the board, and consult the team. This one sounds like a lesson learned, which is why we're here...
On to the log.
* Gain control of swordsmen near Hlobane. There are three Zulu marauders near Hlobane. Picking a nit: Add adjectives if you like, but please refer to them as what they are, .. "marauding archers"...etc.
Shaka is not exactly healthy in the industrial capacity department....We don't have to go after his production centers right away. Have you been reading Clausewitz?
In your swordsman action near Hlobane, I noted that you missed a Zulu warrior that could capture some workers. You could have covered those workers with a sword or two...or put them on the road leading to the workers. Then I got this in the turnlog IBT: A warrior runs in along the road network and captures workers next to Hlobane. That's okay, we can get them back next turn, so no worries. Just lost a couple worker turns. (need...more...units) Note: The AI are often bad about disbanding captured workers...
Cattaraugus: Happiness situation looking up already. Spearman -> swordsman I would have preferred a continued market build here... Note to Bugsy: Need to discuss risks of getting too addicted to MPs....
Turn 2 (30 AD)
F1 check: ... Everywhere else seems to be very happy. So happy...that I try setting luxuries at 10%. Grand River.. size 9, complains...will get its marketplace soon... Lift worker off of the floodplain SE of Grand River; no growth, but that's not a bad thing, considering that ...happiness problems there. What else might you have done that would have allowed you to drop the luxury slider, without hiring a clown in Grand River? (You had plenty of MWs you weren't exactly using...)
* MW in Centralia to Mauch Chunk
Note to Bugs: Do you realize we've allowed these guys to accumulate SIXTEEN Mounted Warriors in Panama?!?!?!
* Worker S of Tonawanda told to irrigate, job is done immediately. For some reason Tonawanda reports swordsman in 4 even though it is producing exactly 10 shields. Your guess is as good as mine. Note: No guess here, one is lost to corruption. 10-1=9 (check city screen, the RED shield is lost to waste.
* 3/4 swordsman 2SW of Osaka S-S-S. (pleasedon'tlethimgetpickedoff) Note: this was a dangerous move for a 3/4 sword... but a little danger in war keeps you honest.
* Last 5/5 elite sword SW-W of Hlobane fortifies for the moment. We are in desperate need of reinforcements. <snip> Unbelieveable. We (instructors) have got these guys so scared of triggering their GA "without permission" that we've got almost a dozen and a half Mounted warriors fortified in Panama... with a handful of Swords to carry on a war against the Zulu.
IBT 2 & 3: The RNG has already taken a different turn... my spearman won. Probably the spearman move in Panama... or I missed something.
Question for the team: what is the danger in fortifying a unit in Jungle?
Turn 3 (50 AD)
* Dial up the Combat Calculator on a swordsman-attacking-archer-on-mountain scenario...<snip> You made a nice decisive move here. I like decisive. I had a healthy spear, a 3/4 sword, and a 3/3 Zulu archer. I put a spear in Zimbabwe and skipped the sword to heal.
* 5/5 swordsman SW of Hlobane moves SW. Why?
* 4/5 swordsman 2W of Hlobane moves S. This encroachment is part to gain information about Mpondo and part to keep Shaka from improving or working his plains tiles. There is an Impi in Mpondo. Note: Why not let him heal?!?!?
* Wake 5/5 swordsman SW-W of Hlobane and move him S.
This is a tactical situation I would have handled differently. I'm not going to say my way is "right" and yours is "wrong", but you had 2 options:
1) If dividing the forces, send some to Zimbabwe...
2) The way I would have played it: I would have consolidated the swords on the same tile as the workers. Let the workers road while the Swords heal. Move the stack (workers and swords) towards Mpondo. When all swords were healthy and roads completed, I would have moved on Mpondo in earnest, with a stack of healthy swords...
* MW in Mauch Chunk to Panama and fortifies.
* MW S of Mauch Chunk to Panama and fortifies.
We now have NINETEEN Mounted Warriors in Panama...
Turn 4 (70 AD)
* Grand River completes its marketplace in 3 turns, Salamanca does it next turn. I rush the marketplace in Grand River <snip>
Note: I like cash rushing the market in Grand River. I do note that in a few turns the power of the marketplace starts to become apparent to you.
* Load the other sword into the Kahnawake galley. Select the loaded galley and move 3S.
Note: Wait a minute here... all through this log you've been screaming for reinforcements to fight the zulu, and you send those two swords south?!??! This is the first military move you've made that I don't understand... not the first I would have done differently...
After considering this move (and orders to build units in some cities without barracks) I think I may have done this team a disservice in the last turnset I played as a student.
First - on Regular Swords: I only use regular units in 2 situations. a) early campaigns and b) when backed into a corner (see Bede02).
Second - the little galley trick I used was designed to maintain the offensive while allowing a collossus build to continue in Kyoto. As a general rule, military tactics in CivIII favor the principle of "Mass" or "Concentration of Forces" over "Maneuver". Dividing your forces can easily bite you (see my Zulu campaign in Bugs1 - I divided my forces, and got to see my troops watch Spain sack a city...)
Due to some technical difficulties and some RNG differences, I stopped shadowing after the turn 4-5 IBT. I did read most of the rest of the turnlog, and can continue to shadow (if that is Bugsy's pleasure).
So far I've come up with these teaching points:
1) Power of marketplaces - the most underrated improvement in the game.
2) some minor tactical pointers on the value of having a "stack" of swords.
3) the dangers of build-order changes in pre-flight.
BUT -
I see a couple of "bigger picture" issue here.
1) We (destructors) have allowed these guys to accumulate a "substantial contingent" of Mounted Warriors in Panama...doing nothing but stinkin' up the livery...
2) We need to go over some city development issues. There are some borders that need some expanding (check NE peninsula) and some cities that need some serious worker turns.
My suggestion: Have each student take the latest save (GJs) and analyze the present situation.
*****digression warning****
Oh man - David Lee Roth is totally bombing a re-hash of "Jump" from his Van Halen days on the tube as I write this... he sounds just awful, and he looks like a banker. Somebody please give me a time machine to send this guy back to the 80s. As much as I miss the 80s (and prefer french-cut bikinis to today's style) this guy never should have been let out of the Reagan era with a record contract.
/end digression warning
Okay - where was I... @Sir Bugsy: I say offer the following:
Have each student take the latest save (GJs) and analyze the present situation.
1) What would you do to finish the Zulu? How would you (generally) pursue the campaign? Would you send some Mounted Warriors over there?
2) Scroll through each of our cities. I mean, pull up "City View" for one of them, and then use the arrow keys to look at the city view of every dadgum city we've got, and answer the following:
2a) Which cities need border expansions?
2b) Which cities need some "serious worker turns"?
2c) Which cities have unit factory and/or commerce/science potential, and what do we need to do to realize that potential?
As an aside:
@Brother Bede: If you're lurking, would you care to lead some discussion on "City Management" at an appropriate time? You really showed me some things in Bede01... you are an excellent City Manager.
I spent a lot of time in pre-flight check, picking apart build order changes. (These were mostly Market-to-Unit changes.) As the game (and log) progressed, it became apparent to me that the power of the Marketplace was coming into focus for GJ, as the end of the log has this little gem:
Goals for the next player, in no particular order:
1. Restart the marketplace projects in the core of our empire.
You (we) all need to be careful about sweeping changes to build orders in Succession Games. If you find yourself making more than a few, it might be a Good Idea to stop the game, log onto the board, and consult the team. This one sounds like a lesson learned, which is why we're here...
On to the log.
* Gain control of swordsmen near Hlobane. There are three Zulu marauders near Hlobane. Picking a nit: Add adjectives if you like, but please refer to them as what they are, .. "marauding archers"...etc.
Shaka is not exactly healthy in the industrial capacity department....We don't have to go after his production centers right away. Have you been reading Clausewitz?
In your swordsman action near Hlobane, I noted that you missed a Zulu warrior that could capture some workers. You could have covered those workers with a sword or two...or put them on the road leading to the workers. Then I got this in the turnlog IBT: A warrior runs in along the road network and captures workers next to Hlobane. That's okay, we can get them back next turn, so no worries. Just lost a couple worker turns. (need...more...units) Note: The AI are often bad about disbanding captured workers...
Cattaraugus: Happiness situation looking up already. Spearman -> swordsman I would have preferred a continued market build here... Note to Bugsy: Need to discuss risks of getting too addicted to MPs....
Turn 2 (30 AD)
F1 check: ... Everywhere else seems to be very happy. So happy...that I try setting luxuries at 10%. Grand River.. size 9, complains...will get its marketplace soon... Lift worker off of the floodplain SE of Grand River; no growth, but that's not a bad thing, considering that ...happiness problems there. What else might you have done that would have allowed you to drop the luxury slider, without hiring a clown in Grand River? (You had plenty of MWs you weren't exactly using...)
* MW in Centralia to Mauch Chunk
Note to Bugs: Do you realize we've allowed these guys to accumulate SIXTEEN Mounted Warriors in Panama?!?!?!
* Worker S of Tonawanda told to irrigate, job is done immediately. For some reason Tonawanda reports swordsman in 4 even though it is producing exactly 10 shields. Your guess is as good as mine. Note: No guess here, one is lost to corruption. 10-1=9
(check city screen, the RED shield is lost to waste. * 3/4 swordsman 2SW of Osaka S-S-S. (pleasedon'tlethimgetpickedoff) Note: this was a dangerous move for a 3/4 sword... but a little danger in war keeps you honest.
* Last 5/5 elite sword SW-W of Hlobane fortifies for the moment. We are in desperate need of reinforcements. <snip> Unbelieveable. We (instructors) have got these guys so scared of triggering their GA "without permission" that we've got almost a dozen and a half Mounted warriors fortified in Panama... with a handful of Swords to carry on a war against the Zulu.
IBT 2 & 3: The RNG has already taken a different turn... my spearman won. Probably the spearman move in Panama... or I missed something.
Question for the team: what is the danger in fortifying a unit in Jungle?
Turn 3 (50 AD)
* Dial up the Combat Calculator on a swordsman-attacking-archer-on-mountain scenario...<snip> You made a nice decisive move here. I like decisive. I had a healthy spear, a 3/4 sword, and a 3/3 Zulu archer. I put a spear in Zimbabwe and skipped the sword to heal.
* 5/5 swordsman SW of Hlobane moves SW. Why?
* 4/5 swordsman 2W of Hlobane moves S. This encroachment is part to gain information about Mpondo and part to keep Shaka from improving or working his plains tiles. There is an Impi in Mpondo. Note: Why not let him heal?!?!?
* Wake 5/5 swordsman SW-W of Hlobane and move him S.
This is a tactical situation I would have handled differently. I'm not going to say my way is "right" and yours is "wrong", but you had 2 options:
1) If dividing the forces, send some to Zimbabwe...
2) The way I would have played it: I would have consolidated the swords on the same tile as the workers. Let the workers road while the Swords heal. Move the stack (workers and swords) towards Mpondo. When all swords were healthy and roads completed, I would have moved on Mpondo in earnest, with a stack of healthy swords...
* MW in Mauch Chunk to Panama and fortifies.
* MW S of Mauch Chunk to Panama and fortifies.
We now have NINETEEN Mounted Warriors in Panama...
Turn 4 (70 AD)
* Grand River completes its marketplace in 3 turns, Salamanca does it next turn. I rush the marketplace in Grand River <snip>
Note: I like cash rushing the market in Grand River. I do note that in a few turns the power of the marketplace starts to become apparent to you.
* Load the other sword into the Kahnawake galley. Select the loaded galley and move 3S.
Note: Wait a minute here... all through this log you've been screaming for reinforcements to fight the zulu, and you send those two swords south?!??! This is the first military move you've made that I don't understand... not the first I would have done differently...
After considering this move (and orders to build units in some cities without barracks) I think I may have done this team a disservice in the last turnset I played as a student.
First - on Regular Swords: I only use regular units in 2 situations. a) early campaigns and b) when backed into a corner (see Bede02).
Second - the little galley trick I used was designed to maintain the offensive while allowing a collossus build to continue in Kyoto. As a general rule, military tactics in CivIII favor the principle of "Mass" or "Concentration of Forces" over "Maneuver". Dividing your forces can easily bite you (see my Zulu campaign in Bugs1 - I divided my forces, and got to see my troops watch Spain sack a city...)
Due to some technical difficulties and some RNG differences, I stopped shadowing after the turn 4-5 IBT. I did read most of the rest of the turnlog, and can continue to shadow (if that is Bugsy's pleasure).
So far I've come up with these teaching points:
1) Power of marketplaces - the most underrated improvement in the game.
2) some minor tactical pointers on the value of having a "stack" of swords.
3) the dangers of build-order changes in pre-flight.
BUT -
I see a couple of "bigger picture" issue here.
1) We (destructors) have allowed these guys to accumulate a "substantial contingent" of Mounted Warriors in Panama...doing nothing but stinkin' up the livery...
2) We need to go over some city development issues. There are some borders that need some expanding (check NE peninsula) and some cities that need some serious worker turns.
My suggestion: Have each student take the latest save (GJs) and analyze the present situation.
*****digression warning****
Oh man - David Lee Roth is totally bombing a re-hash of "Jump" from his Van Halen days on the tube as I write this... he sounds just awful, and he looks like a banker. Somebody please give me a time machine to send this guy back to the 80s. As much as I miss the 80s (and prefer french-cut bikinis to today's style) this guy never should have been let out of the Reagan era with a record contract.
/end digression warning
Okay - where was I... @Sir Bugsy: I say offer the following:
Have each student take the latest save (GJs) and analyze the present situation.
1) What would you do to finish the Zulu? How would you (generally) pursue the campaign? Would you send some Mounted Warriors over there?
2) Scroll through each of our cities. I mean, pull up "City View" for one of them, and then use the arrow keys to look at the city view of every dadgum city we've got, and answer the following:
2a) Which cities need border expansions?
2b) Which cities need some "serious worker turns"?
2c) Which cities have unit factory and/or commerce/science potential, and what do we need to do to realize that potential?
As an aside:
@Brother Bede: If you're lurking, would you care to lead some discussion on "City Management" at an appropriate time? You really showed me some things in Bede01... you are an excellent City Manager.
In my defense :
My logic with using galleys to ship units to the Zulu front was that they would otherwise have had to go alllllll the way around to the north and back to the south, which would have taken one heck of a lot longer than walking them I believe the S-S-S was simply my estimation of a good way to get them there without landing in a sea square, but I'm far too exhausted to do the math right now. (Silly Little League tournament organizers keeping the tournament going until midnight 
)
Part of the reason I built that spear in Cattaraugus was that I thought we would need one there eventually. The town was undefended, and it would only have taken one Persia galley landing for us to have been making
faces.
Danger of fortifying in a jungle is death from malaria. More or less.
As for the MWs in Panama: is there a "sheepish grin" smiley? If not, there needs to be one
---
I can understand the RNG differences - in particular I got mauled by one of the Impi I was attacking in Mpondo. I think it was in Mpondo.
I think the mass buildup in Panama was the result of poor planning on all of our (the trainees') parts - I don't think any of us really considered pulling the trigger there and fighting a two-front war immediately, which deserves a collective "my bad" - or perhaps an "our bad."
As for marketplaces: darn right they're powerful, which is why I want more of them They will be especially useful once we get the silks in the Persian lands. One more lux and we'll really be rolling in it. Between that and the extra cash...I've been making a habit lately of making marketplaces a high priority once I get to Currency, even making Currency a priority tech where it's appropriate.
My judgment was that one more salvo of unit builds was more important than trying to build marketplaces everywhere at once, but I submit that my judgment may well have been off the mark.
Well, the turns are played, so I can't change much...Scout, thanks for the comments, and I'll try to think more about my tactics (especially builds) in my next 10.
:My logic with using galleys to ship units to the Zulu front was that they would otherwise have had to go alllllll the way around to the north and back to the south, which would have taken one heck of a lot longer than walking them
I believe the S-S-S was simply my estimation of a good way to get them there without landing in a sea square, but I'm far too exhausted to do the math right now. (Silly Little League tournament organizers keeping the tournament going until midnight )Part of the reason I built that spear in Cattaraugus was that I thought we would need one there eventually. The town was undefended, and it would only have taken one Persia galley landing for us to have been making
faces.Danger of fortifying in a jungle is death from malaria. More or less.
As for the MWs in Panama: is there a "sheepish grin" smiley? If not, there needs to be one
---
I can understand the RNG differences - in particular I got mauled by one of the Impi I was attacking in Mpondo. I think it was in Mpondo.
I think the mass buildup in Panama was the result of poor planning on all of our (the trainees'
) parts - I don't think any of us really considered pulling the trigger there and fighting a two-front war immediately, which deserves a collective "my bad" - or perhaps an "our bad."As for marketplaces: darn right they're powerful, which is why I want more of them
They will be especially useful once we get the silks in the Persian lands. One more lux and we'll really be rolling in it. Between that and the extra cash...I've been making a habit lately of making marketplaces a high priority once I get to Currency, even making Currency a priority tech where it's appropriate.My judgment was that one more salvo of unit builds was more important than trying to build marketplaces everywhere at once, but I submit that my judgment may well have been off the mark.
Well, the turns are played, so I can't change much...Scout, thanks for the comments, and I'll try to think more about my tactics (especially builds) in my next 10.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Thanks for your work scout. Shadowing is difficult, but necessary.
I think scout has a good idea. Let's take the latest save and see what can be improved and develop a campaign for ending the Zulus and starting on the Persians.
I think scout has a good idea. Let's take the latest save and see what can be improved and develop a campaign for ending the Zulus and starting on the Persians.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Well... I didn't mean to sound like I was rippin' on ya. This was my first time shadowing...GJ said:In my defense
Um... let's make sure that our compasses are pointing the same way here.. S-S-S would take those two swords towards... Persia.. but I think you go the point.My logic with using galleys to ship units to the Zulu front was that they would otherwise have had to go alllllll the way around to the north and back to the south, which would have taken one heck of a lot longer than walking them
The justification you put in your log was "MP"... and that's a long trip for anybody's galley to Cattaraugus... but I'm "picking nits" here...Part of the reason I built that spear in Cattaraugus was that I thought we would need one there eventually. The town was undefended, and it would only have taken one Persia galley landing for us to have been making
Correct.
I like the "blush"As for the MWs in Panama: is there a "sheepish grin" smiley? If not, there needs to be one
smiley when I screw up.... which brings me to a point, actually, a couple: First: The ridiculous number of Mounted Warriors in Panama are as much our fault as yours. We've gotten a little 'wrapped around the axle' on the whole Golden Age thing... I've overlooked it because I think I got one built when I last actually played this game.... now we have... "several"... we ought to use them soon.
Second: Mistakes are okay. We need to make a few to learn from them. The instructors are here to keep you from making so many that the game gets away from you; not to teach you to play the perfect game.
This is the problem with shadowing as the game matures. All I have to do is muff one move differently from you, and the RNG changes...
As I've said - this is as much my part as anybody's....I think the mass buildup in Panama was the result of poor planning on all of our (the trainees'
Yes, yes, YESSS!!!! Sorry, but I feel better knowing that you see that now.As for marketplaces: darn right they're powerful, which is why I want more of them
Unit moves are tactics, builds are strategy. One beautiful difference between this game an others is that there actually is a subtle difference between the two. They appear similar, but they are not quite the same. If you can make the two compliment each other, then you will be on your way to taking your game to another level.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Wow - I spend a few minutes responding to GJ, only to cross-post (badly) with Bugs.
Okay - what he said!
Okay - what he said!
@ Scout: No, you didn't sound like you were ripping on me at all, and I didn't want to give that impression. I just wanted to give a little extra reasoning for my moves.
When I played chess competitively as part of a team, I worked with a wonderful coach whose biggest teaching method was finding out what we were thinking and then helping us to think differently. I think he was a big believer in Grandmaster John Nunn's adage: "There are two words to avoid in chess: one is ALWAYS and the other is NEVER," and so wanted to make sure he understood what our reasons were for making a move, even if it involved asking "What were you THINKING!!?" rather than telling us straight away what the "right thing" to do in a certain situation was.
So I guess it's just a callback to those days You weren't ripping at all, I just wanted to make sure I had explained as best I could.
Thanks again for the time and effort - I think I played well overall, but there are some subtleties I can improve.
When I played chess competitively as part of a team, I worked with a wonderful coach whose biggest teaching method was finding out what we were thinking and then helping us to think differently. I think he was a big believer in Grandmaster John Nunn's adage: "There are two words to avoid in chess: one is ALWAYS and the other is NEVER," and so wanted to make sure he understood what our reasons were for making a move, even if it involved asking "What were you THINKING!!?" rather than telling us straight away what the "right thing" to do in a certain situation was.
So I guess it's just a callback to those days
You weren't ripping at all, I just wanted to make sure I had explained as best I could.Thanks again for the time and effort - I think I played well overall, but there are some subtleties I can improve.
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
I support the unit build changes... maybe not some of the moves with them, but instead of building marketplaces wholesale like we where, we need to build them when a city requires them, usually around size 7 on Monarch. It's a bit sooner on Emperor level because of the loss of 1 content, but we were building them almost every city. I suggested to the team that we not build marketplaces in a city that was smaller then size 8, at least until the war is finished. As GJ said, another round of unit building was more important at that point... we in the middle of 1 war, and about to start another. The first war was danagerously short of unit support... until we're in the modern ages, and learn the concept of special forces, I think we should have large enough stacks to finish off the enemy quickly.
For the Zulu, the easiest thing would be to raze instead of capturing cities. 3 settlers should allow us to resettle, and i'm sure there are 3 cities that we can skim 3 settlers off of.
Persia was already detailed, and since it doesn't look like the situation ahs changed, then I suggest we stick with that plan.
For the Zulu, the easiest thing would be to raze instead of capturing cities. 3 settlers should allow us to resettle, and i'm sure there are 3 cities that we can skim 3 settlers off of.
Persia was already detailed, and since it doesn't look like the situation ahs changed, then I suggest we stick with that plan.
Mistfit
Deity
I think the importance of marketplaces will double when we go to Republic (while we are at war)
Is it me up next or alerum?
Is it me up next or alerum?
scoutsout said:
[removes cowl]
Glad to assist. Two "issues":
Will have to see if I can fire up "vanilla" but will do that now. It works!!!
The City Management options are less complex in "vanilla" as there are no really powerful specialists (only taxmen, underpowered scientists, clowns) so I would probably focus the discussion on build priorities.
Commentary on Currency and Marketplaces:
Currency makes excellent chum for trading purposes as it is not a high priority for most AI nations. The AI tends to head toward science, military and wonders and ignores commercial improvements. So the odds of minimium research being successful are higher. And, since the AI tend not to spend resources on researching Currency, its value is higher in negotiation than any of the other "required techs". (As always there are exceptions).
I have noticed a tendency to consider marketplaces for their contentment value alone and consequently players delay building them if there are no contentment problems or if the lux count is low since the happpiness multiplier does not apply. This ignores the impetus markets give to the economy in any town that produces more than two uncorrupted gpt. (Less than two and the effect disappears in the rounding.)
[/replaces cowl]
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
If you're happy with the changes, then that is a Good Thing. After all, this is more your game than mine now.alerum68 said:
As a rule, I generally build markets in any city capable of growing past size 6, (or any city that I plan to grow past size 6) as soon as I can. It might not "need" the market now, but in time it will; and I get more gold immediately. While some of the build order changes made some sense to me, there were others that I didn't really care for. Rather than nit-pick this issue to death....
Your "strategic" thinking is on-point and solid. It's in the "tactics" that I think you guys are limiting your options a little bit. A half-dozen mounted warriors could have been sent to help finish off the Zulu, triggering a GA, and allowing those market builds to complete quickly. Another option: Markets that were close to completion might have been cash-rushed, so that unit builds could be started (and continued) on the ensuing turns. Cities with happiness problems could get a MW or two, until the time comes to strike Persia.
Specialized units aside, if I could only share one insight with you guys it would be this: The most powerful thing a player can have is options. The human player's ability to perceive options, and make use of them is the only edge the human has over the AI at all levels. The reason I'm pounding out this note is to try to show some of the options that you guys have that may not be readily apparent.
Let me put this another way. It's not that I think the build order changes were "wrong", I simply think there were some other options.
As it stands now, I will be surprised if more than 2 players actually get to fight the Persians, considering the force that is currently assembled in Panama. Somebody is going to have a lot of fun, but I fear the educational value will be diminished.I think we should have large enough stacks to finish off the enemy quickly.
A good point, and you guys do have some settlers that could be used for raze and replace...
DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
2 of the 4 ZUL cities will probably autoraze since they are currently size 1.
EDIT: Bapedia has cultural expanded so it should not autoraze.
EDIT: Bapedia has cultural expanded so it should not autoraze.
SolarKnight
Guardian of the Balance
checking in, sorry for my long absence, RL has been pretty hectic for me recently, but i've fixed my pc, found a job and am ready to resume normal service as far as SGs go.
coletite
Warlord
I'd like to through my $.02 in about markets, although it is echoing Bede: they do more then just make people happy. Even if each market produces only one gold, it will still be a benefit to our economy.
As for the build up of MWs, I agree that we should have been building a few more swords. I also think I dropped the ball by starting Feudalism instead of Republic (I'm pretty sure I'm the one who did it...) We could have been in Republic (or close to it) by now and fighting Persia.
As for the build up of MWs, I agree that we should have been building a few more swords. I also think I dropped the ball by starting Feudalism instead of Republic (I'm pretty sure I'm the one who did it...) We could have been in Republic (or close to it) by now and fighting Persia.
