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[BTS] GLH with isolated start

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by earthy, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Can take CoL via Poly if you want to avoid Philo coming up as bulb, Gumbo.
    With Rep from Pyras a little detour for Caste makes sense.
     
  2. earthy

    earthy Chieftain

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    Yeah that was what i did. I wanted CoL to run lots of rep specialists and grabbed confusianism unintentionally. It spread to my best cities on its own so i felt obliged to research meditation, bulb philo, and tech towards music for a GA. Then i just avoided CS, teched optics, and double bulbed astro. Kind of a half assed astro rush i suppose, but i was still able to get it around 3xx ad.

    It did become a bit awkward at that point though. i wanted to whip caravels when i got optics, but leaving caste really messed up my gpp and economy. Maybe i should have planned ahead and saved some trees to chop into caravels.. Not too sure on that.
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Yeah should of skipped med. I almost reloaded when I realised. I got optics around 150bc. Fast tracking towards music. Took machinery from Oracle. Suprised I got it so late. Should be able to build G lib but no caste is a big issue. Strong save really, Got a GP from capital. Hard to avoid as I delayed writing till very late.

    Case of how to play out game. Not 100% sure I will. I think skipping GLH here is right move. Early cottages, late oracle and using sailing to get stone.
     
  4. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    Why the mids? the stone is in the last corner of the island and I would not settle it just for one wonder. I put my focus on marble wonders and on working all the great FPs. Oracled CoL, got my own religion, next choices were Mono and Monarchy for the double switch. Really, with all those FPs, I don't need scientists for my tech pace (just for the Great Person generation) while happiness comes from religion, gold, HR and forges later. But... I pursue that cultural victory, so the mids are no priority at all, you other guys seemingly go for some oversea conquest :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    krikav likes this.
  5. earthy

    earthy Chieftain

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    I think rep is pretty damn good in this situation with limited happiness resources.

    Aside from that, I liked that city for a couple more reasons. Firstly, it fogbusted a huge chunk of the island. I was able to skip hunting/archery and just use a few warriors to fogbust with that city + the other city i mentioned earlier(1N of pig west of capital). It also had the nice grassland horse tile. With the pig it was able to run some scientists early on, and later on it used the stone to build Moia statue, let another city take the pig, and built wealth until it was needed for caravels. It was definitely a profitable city, and early on the fogbusting from CRE border pops saved me hammers on warriors.
     
    Tobiyogi likes this.
  6. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    Well, with so many commerce, I don't mind researching archery especially when the leader is protective and has a little benefit here (I played under the assumption as if I didn't know that it is full isolation). I usually expand in little circles with maximum overlap between cities, so no big leaps. It's just my little hobby to swap permanently tiles between the cities. So the stone came much later. I found more interesting the NW corner with fish/clam/wheat for my NE Great Artist farm.
     
  7. 6K Man

    6K Man Bureaucrat

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    I like GLH in isolation IFF I have islands to settle. Otherwise, if you have the Stone(s), go Pyramids.
     
    drewisfat likes this.
  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    +1 @Tobiyogi
    I would not go for pyramids in this situation. (Just looking on his screenshot).

    Too many other important things to sort out first.
    Pigs demands of us early AH.
    Gold demands mining, forests demand BW...
    The floodplains demand early pottery and creative trait demands early writing.

    Once AH/BW/Pottery/Writing is in and a bunch of cities is settled, only then I would turn my attention to what wonders would be suitable to pursue.

    Likely, that would be myst->poly (with the shot of getting some late ToAR failgold, which is highly unlikely) then aestethics for parth failgold, litterature to build GLib + national epic.

    But then I would probably just endure the low happy cap and shoot straight for optics. Monarchy would be sweet, but time is of the essence.
     
  9. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    My game at 300 BC, almost at currency and still very hesitating with full settling
    Spoiler :
    Ur in the southwest is the 1. coastal city, just because of its proximity to Uruk. It can build Moais later, with iron and other PH mines.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    After currency, i will eventually settle the NW to set up the N. Epic and maybe also the right one of the hills S of the capitol to grow on the pigs and satelliting still more cottages. Many cities produce failgold at the moment. My 2. and 3. city have health problems already by now. But settling on the river would have wasted good spots. Aqueduct will be needed as long as I cannot trade.

    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
    The wonders I already have are Oracle/ Parthenon, I definitiely want GL/ Sist. Chapel/ U. of Sankore with Paper and Stone later. I plan to grab Philo first to have at least two religions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  10. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    The problem is, stone is miles away and with marble nearby, it is easy to produce early failgold if not finishing something like GL. True, AH/pottery/writing first. After that, I went directly down the religious path, so with poly, priesthood and CoL (from Oracle), mono and monarchy were only a little investment that paid off hugely. With 3 warriors, my capitol could keep on growing on very good tiles/ scientists. And I already had in mind a NE spot with some extreme growth potential that I would have to support by some cheap garrison units

    Spoiler :
    Bad-Tibira has become my GA farm here, still growing.

    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    With OR and forges a bit later, the failgold got a very high dimension (150% on hammers with marble/ gold). So I am basically switching between OR and pacifism asap.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  11. earthy

    earthy Chieftain

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    This is where I was at around that time before I got too tired to keep going.

    Spoiler :
    iso.png


    I have gunpowder and education and I'm just finishing up engineering. After that I think I'll research chemistry, and use Lib to grab steel. The plan is to attack Alexander with cannons and grenadiers. I actually did end up grabbing GLH here after I had 5 cities since the wonders were going so slow, with the idea that If I just got failgold that would be fine too. Grabbed great library in my capital so I just threw the national epic there for ease of construction. I still have my cities marked in the order they were settled, as well as marking for post-astro trade route cities(a1-a5)


    One thing I'm starting to regret is getting a bit greedy in my exhaustion. For some reason I thought it would be smart getting a stronghold on Alexander's land, but the Barbs are really making this a pain.

    Spoiler :
    iso2.png
     
  12. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    Hey, it's only archers. You can take the city in 3 turns (if lucky) and found another one south of the pig. Workers are already there. Isn't that great chance?
     
  13. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    Cultural victory at 1842 AD. The game designates me the title Augustus Cäsar but I don't think it was too hard.
    It took much longer than I had predicted though. Main reason is that there was no religious spread from the outside world. I had 9 cities on my small continent and not temples everywhere. So only 2 cathedrals from Confu and Philo each that I had to spread over my 3 chosen cities. No copper here to build them faster. AND.... I completely forgot to go Radio, also because the war situation was quite unstable and I wanted at least rifleman in my coastal cities. With a strong economy I could go 100% culture for many years while building culture in the 3 cities. So in conclusion: Parth and S. Chapel are strong wonders, but 3 or 4 religions plus broadcast towers are even more important.
    Thanks god only one of my legendary cities was coastal. In the last turn before the 3rd city reached Legendary status, the top dog declared on me (even if he had declared on someone else the turn before!) and took instantly my legendary coastal city. The turn after, my 3rd city reached 50K culture and I had luckily some cannons and rifles to take the other city back. And still more luckily, the culture was preserved what surprised me a bit. I had expected to lose all my buildings and culture in there.
    That seems to be usual AI behaviour to prevent someone from winning the game :lol:
    So I won though he had a zillion transport ships in the oceans. Thanks for the map, really enjoyed that game. Next time I would definitely settle on another continent if only for a religious spread.
    Btw, I was DOWed several times (maybe because of my religion) but the navy could prevent the worst and end the war very soon. It's funny, even when you scout the ocean very carefully, the AI always finds a little whole to sneak through and camp on a hill near one city.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  14. earthy

    earthy Chieftain

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    it was 95% chance but I lost :cry:

    congrats on the cultural win. i'm also surprised the culture stayed when you took that city back! and yeah, I have no idea how the AI are such wizards in the water. if you leave even 1 tile unrevealed, they'll worm their way in lol.
     
  15. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    I think GLH is a poor choice if you're isolated on just a compact island. It does nothing to help us get to Astro quickly, and even after this point AIs may start running merc, and you're not far from being able to research corporation, at which point we're just getting +1 trade route at the opportunity cost of being able to run corporations.

    On Archipelagoish maps though there's less ways of getting commerce and trade routes are a bigger percentage. And you'll get overseas trade routes. And you probably won't know whether you're truly isolated or not until you've committed to building it. The map could even be suited for creating a colony, which counts for foreign routes.
     
  16. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Gumbolt: if you avoid med you can get CoL (need both for philo) but still have to avoid CS and theo (paper). You need to get astronomy early enough for it to have trade value when you meet the AIs.
     
  17. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    Problem on this map begins with the fact that most folks won't found their capitol at the coast, so the GLH becomes still less attractive.
     

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