Lexicus
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Germany actually declared war on the US.
Global savepoint ? When would you reload ?
- Thread starter GoodSarmatian
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Germany actually declared war on the US.
Lexicus
Deity
Lol no problem. I remember that well because there's a brilliant scene in Len Deighton's novel Winter where Alex Horner, a German general on the Eastern Front, bursts into bitter laughter because the Soviets have just smashed through his front near Moscow and he hears news that Hitler just declared war on the United States.
civvver
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I do wonder what the world would be like without Ronald Reagan's presidency. Iran contra, drug wars, america as the communist fighting global police force, massive military budgets, trickle down economics, tax breaks for mortgages, the beginning of the end basically. And still most republicans worship him as the best president in history. All the bad stuff we lay at newer president's feet pretty much has its roots in Reagan policies.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
and he didn't even have an upside. I mean Nixon at least had the EPA which is really cool and he had a huge nose and was constantly paranoid which is also pretty dang cool, but what did Ronny have going for himself aside from magically dodging thousands of bullets for some reason?
inthesomeday
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But what specific event would you possibly change to prevent Reagan’s presidency? In answering this question I’ll admit I thought very hard about that. Make sure Hinkley aims a little higher?
Phrossack
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Success of Operation Eagle Claw? That may have helped.
EgonSpengler
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I was just about to post about the failed military mission to rescue the hostages in Iran in 1980. But I don't know if the one event, even if it had gone perfectly, would have handed Carter the election, but maybe it could have started some dominoes falling in the right direction. If we're allowed to undertake a multi-phase "mission: impossible", you could also convince Ted Kennedy to wait another 4 years rather than weaken Carter with a primary challenge he was going to lose anyway, and coach Carter's campaign team to take Reagan as a more serious threat. I was too young to be following it at the time, but I've read that Carter tried to paint Reagan as another Barry Goldwater, and didn't perform well against the former movie star in televised debates.
Lexicus
Deity
That would have happened with or without Nixon, though.
Go back a little farther and convince him to volunteer for the infantry in WW2?
Timsup2nothin
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Before going back locate the evidence that Iran Contra was going on even before he was president, then go back and illuminate that during the campaign.
He did inspire a scene in one of the episodes of "Are You Being Served?".
EgonSpengler
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I think that's fair. As a history nerd and a sci-fi nerd, I like to imagine alternate histories that hinge on at least plausible turns of events, but I don't think the OP was demanding that we provide all the details. "Carter beats Reagan" is sufficient if you don't want to dive into all the details of how it could happen and would rather look at what might be different afterward. My idea of interceding before 9/11 was a means to an end, not just of saving 3,000 lives but of keeping the US from going off the rails the way we have; I reckoned that "Keep the US from losing its [gosh-darned] mind" is too vague, so I tried to offer something tangible, fool's errand though it may be. I actually haven't thought a great deal about what exactly would have been different if, say, Al Gore won in 2000 or Al-Qaeda had been intercepted before they took the planes.
civvver
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The beginning of the Taliban and osama bin laden goes back further, to the soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the us response, and the power vacuum left when the soviets withdrew. I don't know all the details, or where all the blame goes, but the 80s and the cold war dramatically shaped the world we have today. If you intervene in that decade I don't think you need to intercept those planes on 911.
EgonSpengler
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Right, you could save Mohammed Daoud Khan, defeat the Saur Revolution, and stave off the Soviet invasion. My guess is that Al Qaeda would still have existed and would have found refuge elsewhere (Indonesia was where the Bojinka plot was hatched, and the Pakistani Taliban may or may not have existed without the Afghan Taliban), but I think you could put together a plausible alternate history that looks better than what actually happened.
EDIT: The New York Times, Oct 17, 2009 - "Remembering Afghanistan's Golden Age"
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Couple choices
Gaul just before Ceasars conquest
Britain during the process of Anglo "invasion"
Pictland or Strathclyde before the siege of Burghead or Dun Barton
Denmark during Knuts North Sea empire
Caddo confederacy during Hernando de Sotas march
SW or SE Alaska during Russian colonization.
Of course, I always imagine I'd be a great general with persuasion multilingual and vast technical knowledge able to reverse the tide of history. Like a civ4 game. More likely I'd spawn as some peasant drafted into a losing army.
Gaul just before Ceasars conquest
Britain during the process of Anglo "invasion"
Pictland or Strathclyde before the siege of Burghead or Dun Barton
Denmark during Knuts North Sea empire
Caddo confederacy during Hernando de Sotas march
SW or SE Alaska during Russian colonization.
Of course, I always imagine I'd be a great general with persuasion multilingual and vast technical knowledge able to reverse the tide of history. Like a civ4 game. More likely I'd spawn as some peasant drafted into a losing army.
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