Global warming mod

[os79]

"Survival of the fittest" had never been a part of Darwinian evolution theory. It was a phrase coined by Herbert Spencer to describe his vision of the society.

Evolution is simply a theory that describes the process of natural selection of species throughout this world's history. Simplified, but you get the idea here . There had been a variety of methods of adaptation so for a species to survive, it did not always had to be the "fittest" (whatever that may mean to you).

 

[mail2345]

Afforess has a point about the futility in trying to solve AGCC(if it's real). Either everyone has to cooperate in trying to eliminate CO2 emissions, or nobody will.
Anyway, of course humanity will survive GCC/AGCC. It's just going to be not as good of a life.

 

[twjr]

while evolution generally calls for the species most adapted to their environment humans kind of threw a spanner in the works when we started adapting the environment to suit our needs. WE are not the fittest just bloody good at adaptation.

I agree that it is not reasonable to halt the industrialisation of China and India when Europe and America both went through a period of significant environmental harm. I guess it would just be nice for people/countries to learn from others mistakes. But time and time again it seems the mistakes you learn best from are your own.

 

[szemek77]

Interesting discussion, indeed. It started just after my small, provocative joke Of course, I believe it would have started anyway. It is such a HOT topic

Most of you probably know, that the region I live in, is enjoying sth what is called "moderate climate". Which I doubt from time to time - in February we suffered -15 C
(it would be around 5 F) for three weeks in a row. Heavy snowing included. But in the long history of this area, we had both jungle, and glacier here. With no human influence.

Even in 17th century, Europe suffered what is called "small/short ice age". Believe me: no industry involved.

I'm not stupid: with no doubt, there is a negative impact of modern industrializm. I believe however that we are still not powerful enough (thanks God) to change the climate. I'm not an expert, but sun activity is a main suspect in this area. Isn't it?

The whole green movement seems ridiculous to me. I'm not denying that a lot of people of good will are onboard. However, the gurus of that movement are using
them as a tool. Al Gore, taking private jets to join another conference, and having a palace which eats 10 time more energy than average john smith is a perfect example. There was a Climate Summit (or Conference, whatever) in Copenhagen last December. 12 days of free food, good hotels, and all other fancy stuff (Danish organizers had to get some limos from Germany - they couldn't provide enough for ruthful world leaders by themselves) - all paid by taxpayers is another good example, how pathetic it is.

Not to mention all the cases (I believe it happens in your countries as well) when a group of green activists are obstructing the build of a bridge or highway, and quits the protest after government orders them to prepare a well paid "analysis of dangers".

I wish all the money spent on this sh&% went to clean energy technology research.....

 

[twjr]

I agree with your latter statements. While I would like to think I am a bit of an environmentalist I wouldn't consider myself "green". For instance I agree with a little of the work Greenpeace does but will never ever support them until they accept that nuclear power is actually the lesser of all current evils regarding power generation. I also think that all this money that is being wasted on climate change policies would be far better used to fund R&D into alternative power and fuel sources. Coming up with a truly viable alternative to petroleum products is far more important in my opinion than any of the Kyoto and Copenhagen bollocks.

The main driving factors behind the Earth's climate ie whether we are in a glacial or interglacial period, are actually three factors to to with the position of the Earth relative to the sun and the tilt of the Earth and are pretty cyclical from what we can tell. The actual energy produced by the sun generally doesn't define the Earth's climate or that is what the ice records show for the last 800,000 years or so. However, it is probable that we are able to have (as of now an unquantifiable) impacts on the Earth's climate in the more stable periods between glacial periods. Also the position of the Earth's landmasses play a huge role in the climate but that is on a time-scale far beyond our species concern really.

 

[soup567]

I'm sorry but the rest of the world gets along just just fine with socialised healthcare. I guess most Americans just see socialised=communism you know like weather=climate

I'm American and I love socialism, even (real) communism! In fact I hate capitalism. And I'm very happy with the new health care bill that the Democrats finally passed. You can now get coverage with a pre-existing conditions, children can stay on their parents medical plan till they're 26, and if you get sick now, your insurance company can't drop you. And that's just the icing on the cake. I'm sorry; I'm not trying to change the subject, I just wanted to show you that not all Americans are anti-socialism.

 

[Afforess]

In fact I hate capitalism.

Watch out; professing hatred for something, especially a political topic, is an easy way to start a flame war. I don't need mods descending on these forums.

NBAFan & Others, I know your opinions, please don't take the bait.

 

[soup567]

Watch out; professing hatred for something, especially a political topic, is an easy way to start a flame war, I don't need mods descending on these forums.

NBAFan & Others, don't bite.

Oh, sorry I'm just very opinionated when it comes to some things. I should just be quiet now...

 

[Afforess]

Oh, sorry I'm just very opinionated when it comes to some things. I should just be quiet now...

Opinions are fine; just try not to be openly provocative. Everyone else is just as opinionated as you, and many...lack restraint.

 

[NBAfan]

Oh, sorry I'm just very opinionated when it comes to some things. I should just be quiet now...

It is alright, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't like laissez faire capitalism myself.

Opinions are fine; just try not to be openly provocative. Everyone else is just as opinionated as you, and many...lack restraint.

Don't look at me.

 

[Afforess]

Don't look at me.

I picked on you because I agree with your political views the most here; and knew what my immediate reaction was; so I wanted to stop yours.

Anyway, DRJ's Hitler thread is still not that old either. No need to create another scene.

 

[Slammer64]

To quote someone else "Can't we all just get along?"

 

[NBAfan]

But we are.

 

[soup567]

or are we...

 

[Slammer64]

Better than some forums I've been on, anyway

 

[Danwood]

That solution is easy: find another planet. .

I hope you are kidding terraforming mars would need some thrusand years, other planets are just out of debate.

Well, ClimateGate happened recently, so books will not reflect it for years yet. Professors may or may not tell you about it; really up to what they believe. Silly, I know, but true. (Also, Climategate only invalidates Anthropogenic Global Warming, not natural climate change). I know, I'm a Meteorology Major at a university myself.

ClimateGate e-mails don't close the debate about global warming, they simply re-open it, so you cant conclude that AGW is fake, the dubit is alive. BTW human activities have a huge impact on the planet's ecosystems, global warming or non global warming.

 

[twjr]

I'm American and I love socialism, even (real) communism! In fact I hate capitalism. And I'm very happy with the new health care bill that the Democrats finally passed. You can now get coverage with a pre-existing conditions, children can stay on their parents medical plan till they're 26, and if you get sick now, your insurance company can't drop you. And that's just the icing on the cake. I'm sorry; I'm not trying to change the subject, I just wanted to show you that not all Americans are anti-socialism.

I know that there are Americans with all sorts of views I was just being a little facetious and generalist.

I have no problem with capitalism, it got the west to where it is now I just think there are a few industries which should operate non-profit simply for the betterment of society. Healthcare and military (odd combination I guess but just look at the JSF programme and think if Lockheed didn't have shareholders to please) should really be run non-profit.

In New Zealand (where I am from) there are even health insurance companies that are run as non-profit. I guess I just see the American health industry as strange and a little sickening that people are happy to make a buck of others well-being.

However, now we have strayed really far off topic. So on topic how hard would it be to incorporate deforestation induced desertification?

 

[Slammer64]

Please folks, we can air political views elsewhere, this is for Afforess's mod, we don't need to get him into trouble with the mods.

 

[civ_king]

Interesting discussion, indeed. It started just after my small, provocative joke Of course, I believe it would have started anyway. It is such a HOT topic

Most of you probably know, that the region I live in, is enjoying sth what is called "moderate climate". Which I doubt from time to time - in February we suffered -15 C
(it would be around 5 F) for three weeks in a row. Heavy snowing included. But in the long history of this area, we had both jungle, and glacier here. With no human influence.

Even in 17th century, Europe suffered what is called "small/short ice age". Believe me: no industry involved.

I'm not stupid: with no doubt, there is a negative impact of modern industrializm. I believe however that we are still not powerful enough (thanks God) to change the climate. I'm not an expert, but sun activity is a main suspect in this area. Isn't it?

The whole green movement seems ridiculous to me. I'm not denying that a lot of people of good will are onboard. However, the gurus of that movement are using
them as a tool. Al Gore, taking private jets to join another conference, and having a palace which eats 10 time more energy than average john smith is a perfect example. There was a Climate Summit (or Conference, whatever) in Copenhagen last December. 12 days of free food, good hotels, and all other fancy stuff (Danish organizers had to get some limos from Germany - they couldn't provide enough for ruthful world leaders by themselves) - all paid by taxpayers is another good example, how pathetic it is.

Not to mention all the cases (I believe it happens in your countries as well) when a group of green activists are obstructing the build of a bridge or highway, and quits the protest after government orders them to prepare a well paid "analysis of dangers".

I wish all the money spent on this sh&% went to clean energy technology research.....

I'm going to run some math on Al Gore power usage okay? and I'll explain the adjustments

Spoiler :

213216 kW/h was how much he was using per year
~18,000 kW/h was the usage of the area (this will be the comparison)

now reduce his usage by 10% (because when they did the measurement his house was under construction), this yields 191,894

now we reduce this by 37.5% (percentage of time spent by average person at work, because both of the Gore's work at home), this yields 119934

reduce by 40% (for efficiency improvements at their house since measurement)
yielding 71960

divide 71,960 by 18,000= and you get 4 (3.99779)

not as bad as they claim (IIRC the average American uses 100x as much electricity as the average Indian)

now on to your climate, IIRC in the last 2 Million years the climate globally was only 3 degrees colder during the last ice age (before hand, the Sahara was grassland!) if 3 degrees less is an ice age, what is 3 degrees more?

 

[soup567]

now on to your climate, IIRC in the last 2 Million years the climate globally was only 3 degrees colder during the last ice age (before hand, the Sahara was grassland!) if 3 degrees less is an ice age, what is 3 degrees more?

Small temperature changes like that might sound small, but globally it has a much higher impact.