Global warming strikes again...

[AdamCrock]

I remember when I've posted that global warming is a myth ... man what an idiot I was - sorry , just a reflection It is very real and let's hope we will not end up like Mars is now -barren planet , not able to support life.

More on topic - I wanted to ask : what do You think about rich CO2 environment decreases nutrients value of plants (is it true ? just the thing I've heared) , plainly speaking the same vegetable or fruit was able to nourish people more in the past and less now : why do You think that is ? Plants reaction on rich CO2 environment is a peculiar one I think , so we might expect something yet unexpected in plant life, unless due to a destruction of our protective ozone layers the solar radiation get's us and we're done for.

 

[Samson]

Report says fossil fuel extraction plans double that consistent with Paris accords

The report published by the UN Environment Programme (UNEP) on Wednesday found that while governments have made ambitious pledges to curb greenhouse gas emissions, they are still planning to extract double the amount of fossil fuels in 2030 than what would be consistent with the 2015 Paris climate accord’s goal of keeping the global temperature rise below 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit).

The Production Gap report, which was released 10 days before the COP26 climate summit – billed as key to the viability of the Paris Agreement temperature goals – analysed 15 major fossil fuel producers: Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, Germany, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Norway, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.
It said government fossil fuel production plans this decade are “dangerously out of sync” with the emissions cuts needed, warning that countries plan to produce, in total, some 110 percent more fossil fuels in 2030 than would be consistent with limiting the degree of warming to 1.5C, and 45 percent more than is consistent with 2C.
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[Samson]

Also out this week, too much fishing = less fish poo = less oceanic carbon fixation = global warming

The pre-exploitation global biomass of exploited fish (10 g to 100 kg) was 3.3 ± 0.5 Gt, cycling roughly 2% of global primary production (9.4 ± 1.6 Gt year−1) and producing 10% of surface biological export. Particulate organic matter produced by exploited fish drove roughly 10% of the oxygen consumption and biological carbon storage at depth. By the 1990s, biomass and cycling rates had been reduced by nearly half, suggesting that the biogeochemical impact of fisheries has been comparable to that of anthropogenic climate change.
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Write up Paper

 

[Samson]

I guess there is a pre COP26 rush of papers. Climate change mitigation funding = ~ $20 billion/year (of $100 billion promised). Fossil fuel subsidies = ~ $500 billion/year

Spoiler Sharp end of climate change in Bangladesh :

 

[Broken_Erika]

COP26: Document leak reveals nations lobbying to change key climate report

A huge leak of documents seen by BBC News shows how countries are trying to change a crucial scientific report on how to tackle climate change.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58982445

 

[Hrothbern]

I remember when I've posted that global warming is a myth ... man what an idiot I was - sorry , just a reflection It is very real and let's hope we will not end up like Mars is now -barren planet , not able to support life.

More on topic - I wanted to ask : what do You think about rich CO2 environment decreases nutrients value of plants (is it true ? just the thing I've heared) , plainly speaking the same vegetable or fruit was able to nourish people more in the past and less now : why do You think that is ? Plants reaction on rich CO2 environment is a peculiar one I think , so we might expect something yet unexpected in plant life, unless due to a destruction of our protective ozone layers the solar radiation get's us and we're done for.

If you eat vegetables etc from NL grown in greenhouses, (not the greenhouse effect but those glass houses to grow food), your vegetables were grown at increased CO2 levels.
The greenhouses are warmed up with gasfuelled heaters and the exhaust (CO2 gas and H20 vapour) is used to enrich the air for faster growth. The vegetables acting as CO2 sink.
A very green way to increase productivity because the throughput of grown food per invested capital and workers time is increased. Both contain embodied energy and the embodied CO2 footprint per kilo vegetable is decreased.

Now... when you look at the (micro) nutrient level, it depends on "how" you supply nutrients to the crops and what kind of variety of crop you use.
Our Dutch tomatoes 20-30 years ago were famous because of nice looking and big but were tasting like water. In effect we transported natural gas to other countries in the form of tomatoes (our natural gas price low because of the big natural gas sources in NL).
With better variety choices we now also compete on taste quality and not only any more on price per kilo.

Besides the variety choice the biggest and easiest way to improve nutrient content in many vegetables is to harvest them before they are really fullgrown. In indoor greenhouses you can initiate the riping process at will fitting the size you want.
Baby asperges, baby Romaine lettuce, baby this and that have much higher micronutrient content.
Small apples (whole eaten incl peel) have in general much higher micronutrient content than big blown up apples.

Baby and mini vegetables BTW a new growth market for farmers and retail-groceries:
Because households sizes decrease from less children more divorces longer delay living together... more singles... AND many people do want to eat fresh vegetables and not three days in a row that cauliflower etc, mini varieties are being cultivated and are now getting hold in retail (in NL).

What will happen, and has already happened in outdoor growth of vegetable food is basically driven by indeed that CO2, but also by nutrient content in the soil.
Our soils are getting depleted from many harvests over the decades and centuries and here and there over the milennia. The FAO (UN agriculture division) estmates we have globally for on average 60 more harvests in our soil.
You can compensate with fertilisers the most basic nutrients, but not all the many minerals that plants need and we need in them as food !!!
Giving a full scope mineral fertilising addition will be too expensive in outdoor farming until we recycle our human faeces into fertilisers (but how to deal with all the Pharma products in human faeces ???).

=> Indoor farming has the future for many reasons !!!
Multi-layered, fully automated, not far from big cities.

EDIT
Looked on it in a grander style:
You will see big "lights out" relatively cold and possibly even O2 deprived warehouses for goods not to far from cities at logistic hub nodes.
And big "lights on" warehouses for the vegetable food nearby the big recycling and drinking water plants.
All very much based on "just in time"

In effect the flower and house plants business is NOW already based on that total "just in timer" production. Aalsmeer and Schiphol the main hub of this global chain.
Individual small flowershops order their flowers etc in a website portal, and that drives the planning of the flower greenhouses and the planning of the logistics to that individual flower shop around the corner of your house.

 

[Samson]

If you eat vegetables etc from NL grown in greenhouses, (not the greenhouse effect but those glass houses to grow food), your vegetables were grown at increased CO2 levels.
The greenhouses are warmed up with gasfuelled heaters and the exhaust (CO2 gas and H20 vapour) is used to enrich the air for faster growth. The vegetables acting as CO2 sink.
A very green way to increase productivity because the throughput of grown food per invested capital and workers time is increased. Both contain embodied energy and the embodied CO2 footprint per kilo vegetable is decreased.

I thought heated greenhouses were one of the worst ways to get a plant based diet, much worse than lorries shipping stuff from south europe, but not as bad as air freight.

 

[Hrothbern]

I thought heated greenhouses were one of the worst ways to get a plant based diet, much worse than lorries shipping stuff from south europe, but not as bad as air freight.

oh no
And in those south europe crops the embodied cost of the water footprint is ignored.
Green house tomatoes have hardly any water footprint.
What happens since decades already is pumping up deeplayered groundwater for growing these cash export crops.
But these aquifers run dry over time even with the current rain feedback. With the coming climate change many of these farmers will see their business coming to a stop.
The US farmers up north will face some issues there in the future. Also the oranges and the almonds of California.
Rain is important.

 

[Hrothbern]

Grapes BTW a nice example of how plants handle the rain.
Grapes invest roughly 50% of their total biosynthesis in growing roots (depending on rain pattern)
The bulk of those roots cover the first meter deep or so but part of the roots grow much and much deeper.
That 1 meter to catch as much and as fast as possible the opportunity of rainwater before it sinks too deep in the ground. Those deeper roots to survive long periods without rain.

 

[Hrothbern]

I thought heated greenhouses were one of the worst ways to get a plant based diet, much worse than lorries shipping stuff from south europe, but not as bad as air freight.

I agree with you when it is about eating crops growing at a natural density in a natural surrounding without all kinds of pesticides.
Harvesting is then the only energy and cost consuming step in the cost chain.

Do mind that the embodied cost of pesticides for outdoor vegetables and fruit are also not used in comparison calculations.
My guess is that we have reached with environment the same situation as with CO2.
It is more expensive NOT to do something about it than solving the issues.
Pesticides are very expensive.
Unfortunately those costs are not visible yet.

But so is generous use of all kinds of medicins.
As example: There is in Germany planned a new factory for Lithium batteries and you will get a Lithium footprint to the environment, with in the end most of that Lithium ending up in the river Rhine (location plant near Rhine).
Water from the river Rhine is used for making drinking water.
For the total risk calculation for the envirionmental permit you need also the amount of Lithium waste frrom other sources.
It turned out that the amount of Lithium in the Rhine is already high because of all the people using Lithium based anti-depressiva !!!
In other words: as I read that: I get already now, completely undesired, my daily dose of anti-depressiva.

During the climate change we will face all kinds of water topics and water wars.

 

[Samson]

I agree with you when it is about eating crops growing at a natural density in a natural surrounding without all kinds of pesticides.
Harvesting is then the only energy and cost consuming step in the cost chain.

Do mind that the embodied cost of pesticides for outdoor vegetables and fruit are also not used in comparison calculations.
My guess is that we have reached with environment the same situation as with CO2.
It is more expensive NOT to do something about it than solving the issues.
Pesticides are very expensive.
Unfortunately those costs are not visible yet.

But so is generous use of all kinds of medicins.
As example: There is in Germany planned a new factory for Lithium batteries and you will get a Lithium footprint to the environment, with in the end most of that Lithium ending up in the river Rhine (location plant near Rhine).
Water from the river Rhine is used for making drinking water.
For the total risk calculation for the envirionmental permit you need also the amount of Lithium waste frrom other sources.
It turned out that the amount of Lithium in the Rhine is already high because of all the people using Lithium based anti-depressiva !!!
In other words: as I read that: I get already now, completely undesired, my daily dose of anti-depressiva.

During the climate change we will face all kinds of water topics and water wars.

I wonder what the effect of such low dose lithium is? A little bit more serotonin for everyone, which may be good, but a little more mTOR and a little less apoptosis (therefore more senescence) which may not be good for life expectancy.

 

[Hrothbern]

I wonder what the effect of such low dose lithium is? A little bit more serotonin for everyone, which may be good, but a little more mTOR and a little less apoptosis (therefore more senescence) which may not be good for life expectancy.

Well yes
You get into the homeopathic realm.

And is a small amount of senescense that bad ?
Is it not also a survival technique for a cell to sit out a storm and get back to life when it is over ?

And to counter that senescense I could eat some more strawberries (containg fisetin). Well if I were a mouse. Whether it works the same for us. Who knows.
https://www.worldhealth.net/news/fisetin-within-strawberries-clears-senescent-cells/

 

[Samson]

Well yes
You get into the homeopathic realm.

And is a small amount of senescense that bad ?
Is it not also a survival technique for a cell to sit out a storm and get back to life when it is over ?

And to counter that senescense I could eat some more strawberries (containg fisetin). Well if I were a mouse. Whether it works the same for us. Who knows.
https://www.worldhealth.net/news/fisetin-within-strawberries-clears-senescent-cells/

We really do not know enough to put an numbers on it, but it is a fairly hot topic in dementia research that senescent cells may be a significant contributor to many of the conditions of aging. That strawberry thing is on of my favourite bits of research, how much health food tastes as good as strawberries .

 

[Hrothbern]

We really do not know enough to put an numbers on it, but it is a fairly hot topic in dementia research that senescent cells may be a significant contributor to many of the conditions of aging. That strawberry thing is on of my favourite bits of research, how much health food tastes as good as strawberries .

Yes
My knowledge on fisetin was coming from my interest in countering dementia.

A small apple a day, a strawberry a day, two olives a day, two leeks a week, a small piece of chocolate with the tea, some mint here up north because the holy basilicum or southern basilicum does not grow here.... some sage, etc, etc

Serious again
Against that dementia our melatonin is also very important

 

[Synobun]

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1451257128572919815

Today, New York City is announcing its public pensions are fully divesting out of the fossil fuel industry and into renewables & climate - a massive shift of about $50 billion.

Tweet leads to a larger thread. Seems like a drop in the ocean, but a good drop. Pension plan funds are sources of economic power for the fossil fuel industry.

 

[Hrothbern]

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1451257128572919815



Tweet leads to a larger thread. Seems like a drop in the ocean, but a good drop. Pension plan funds are sources of economic power for the fossil fuel industry.

Last week one of the minor Dutch pension funds announced to divest fossil fuel, today the biggest Dutch pension fund ABP for 3 million civil servants and teachers with Euro 500 Billion ultimo 2020 announced to divest its 15 Billion stake in fossil fuel.

 

[Drakle]

China is installing more wind, solar, batteries, electric vehicles, and charging stations than the US is, despite being poorer. On top of already having more non car transit. The Standard conservative response, is always ' well what about these poorer industrialising nations, they aren't doing enough' Well they are.

It's also dumb, because carbon hangs in the atmosphere for on average 300 years. So the entire US Industrialised history still counts, while China has only seriously been a heavy emitter in recent history. And still produces less per capita.

And it isn't like paying a set price for an item, like a group of friends paying for a meal. Every bit of carbon does more damage to everyone. Everybody needs to chip in, with every bit they can.

The US reconciliation bill looks like it is close to being done, but Manchin has largely slashed it up, by removing the punitive measures, so it is only a reduced number of subsides. You know, while also crying about the whole bill being paid for, and keeping the top line down. The bill in its starting position was only just enough to get the US to net-zero by 2050, which is already too late to prevent massive damage. Now it is going to miss. Biden can do some stuff with executive action, but that is constrained, even more so by the reactionary courts.

Of course, Australia is even worse on this issue. Not our state Governments, they are largely good (except my home state). But our Federal Government can't even agree to a target, let alone any action.

 

[Zardnaar]

Burning gas to heat glasshouses seems crazy to me.

Vast majority of electricity here is renewable via hydro power.

They're closing an aluminum smelter which frees up a large amount of electricity and they're looking at making green hydrogen.

 

[Hrothbern]

Burning gas to heat glasshouses seems crazy to me.

Vast majority of electricity here is renewable via hydro power.

They're closing an aluminum smelter which frees up a large amount of electricity and they're looking at making green hydrogen.

In summary:
With 18 people per km2 you live practicallly in a country without people.

 

[Zardnaar]

In summary:
With 18 people per km2 you live practicallly in a country without people.

Yeah it's terrible.