GOTM-02: Pre-Game discussion

[AlanH]

Moderator Action: ALL PLAYERS PLEASE READ THIS

There is a very simple GOTM rule that applies globally.

From the time you open the start save until the time the game closes you MUST NOT post about the map, or any aspect of the game ANYWHERE except in the official spoiler threads. That includes the Pre-Game thread or the Saves Available thread.

This is not because we are power-crazed or 'anally-retentive' to quote a previous critic. It's because the majority of players want to play the game on a level playing field. They cannot do that if they inadvertently discover advance information about the game from players who have already started.

Simple? Easy to understand? Please comply

 

[Iceman_Aragorn]

I think going 2S would be a good idea....to me it looks like there are 2-3 hill hiding under the shadows at the bottom of the screenshot. You would still be able to make use of the wheat, since by the time you make a worker and get roads and farms researched, your capital would definately have expanded to include the wheat.

Getting that farm up is probably priority #1. Then, I'd probably get wood chopping researched, and work on a settler if the capital is at least at 2-3 population. Hopefully by this time ill have explored enough to locate some nearby stone, and settle beside it if at all possible. The reason I emphasize this is that I want to get pyramids in the capital ASAP. There is a twofold strategy behind this move:
1. getting some GP points coming in ASAP is important to make full use of the philosophical trait, and
2. getting pyramids allows you to instantly convert to universal suffrage, which i foresee as being very important, as it will be a great place to spend the excess money created by the financial traits and the many cottages you are likely to create.

In the second city near a stone site, i'd go for a barracks and research and pump out 4-6 archers for the 2, hopefully soon 3 cities you have.
after pyramids and perhaps another stone-based wonder (oracle?) which should get done quickly with stone and woodchopping, another settler to get either copper or iron if you dont already have it nearby. This should be a pretty good start.

 

[Mannu]

I think I will settle where I am at. 2nd city will be south along the river. 3rd city east along the southern sea shore.

I think I will start with sailing and then bronzeworking. If no copper nearby then I will head for archery to get some defenses up. If copper is available then I will head up through agriculture, animal husbandry to writing.

Will build a warrior first and then a lighthouse when it is available to make use of the 3 lakes tiles and the financial bonus.

 

[Ozyman8]

I'll found Dublin where I am to act as my research and commercial city. I'll then send my warrior south to found Cork as my industrial city. Sailing / Lighthouse will be my first technological priority.

 

[BuddhaBubba]

Building cottages becomes even more valuable - build them on a river and you've effectively got an instant hamlet - and it can still grow.

so hamlets/villages/towns get an instant coin bonus if built by a river? i didn't know that. ::sigh:: i still have a lot to learn in this game

 

[Shillen]

All tiles bordering rivers give +1 commerce unless there's a forest on that tile. The cottage is immediately +1 commerce as soon as it's built. Then the financial trait adds +1 commerce to any tile producing at least 2 commerce. So if you build a cottage on a non-river tile it's only going to generate 1 commerce to start. But if you build a cottage on a river tile it will produce 3 commerce immediately.

 

[Spiral]

Well, I never played on prince before, Noble is winnable for me though still challenging so I'm probably in trouble here. I like the financial trait on elizabeth but I'm not particularily fond of great people since I dont use many specialists and I dont build alot of wonders >< guess I'll have to adjust. Lake maps are perfect for because I really dont like boats.

Hmmm, I'm thinkin settle on the start spot and create a population factory. Lots of good food on that spot especially if a lighthouse is available. 2 heath resources and some forests (I'll probably only chop down 1-2 tiles) will be great for supporting a large population. A commerce and a production city will be priority once the warrior scouts around a bit, probably the production town first.

Agriculture (put the worker to work!)-> sailing(lighthouse) -> archery(defense/settler escort) -> ironworking(gotta find it, gotta chop trees) -> pottery(granary will be nice to help recover from all those dead slaves -> contruction(colloseum) -> liberalism/gunpowder (duh?)-> rifling (mass redcoats woot!) -> spaceship

I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope I either find some stone and build pyramids or trade a friendly AI for monarchy before my population gets fiesty.

GL HF

 

[Roland Ehnström]

North would be a silly move, IMO. You'd pick up a snow tile + tundra forest + a couple extra coastal squares + 1 plains hill. Meanwhile you're losing plains/grasslands/river tiles. Another reason is the settler placement right where he is is perfect for optimizing tile useage without grabbing the desert tiles to the SW.

Well, I'm seriousely thinking of settling 1 N. Of course you're right that plains/grasslands/river is better than snow/tundra/coast, but my idea is to keep the option to place my second city on the desert tile. In this case I havn't lost anything, since the second city would use all the important tiles the first city loses. I want to keep the option of placing city #2 on the desert tile because this allows it to use the wheat. This may prove crucial if there are no food bonuses or floodplains down south.

The only real downside I see of moving 1 N to settle is that the capital probably ends up in a slightly less central position. This is much less important than in Civ3, however.

-- Roland

 

[pindicator]

Roland, I think the better move is to plant in spot. Let your capital use all the good tiles that we can see. The second city can use a bundle of good tiles that we later scout for. Now, if it becomes obvious that we are going to be crammed (very doubtful for a lakes map) I would lean more towards your line of thinking.

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Let your capital use all the good tiles that we can see.

Settling 1 N "wastes" only three good tiles compared to settling on the spot: The plains by the river, the grassland by the river and the grassland to the SW. All these three tiles will be used by the second city, so you havn't lost anything. London will have enough good tiles to use anyway.

The second city can use a bundle of good tiles that we later scout for.

What if there are no such tiles? I have a feeling we're in pretty bad surroundings. West looks like desert. East nothing but plains. North tundra and coast... This makes me want to keep the option of cramming in two good cities in the area we can see.

Now, if it becomes obvious that we are going to be crammed (very doubtful for a lakes map) I would lean more towards your line of thinking.

If you settle on the spot you no longer have the option to use my line of thinking, because it will no longer be possible for you to place your second city in a position to use both the wheat (for food if there are no food bonuses down south) AND the plains-hills (for the much-needed hammers).

-- Roland

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Moderator Action: Deleted a quote from a deleted post - AlanH

Can you PLEASE follow the simple rule: NO NOT post ANYTHING in this thread after you have opened the original save!

Sorry if this makes me "anal".

-- Roland

 

[Oggums]

I'm going to settle on the spot, and I will chop, chop, chop. I don't care if there's no production left, I'll chop it all.

Here's why. With all that food and being philisophical, I figure I'll try something I've never tried before. I'm going to build a bunch of prophet wonders (stonehenge, oracle, chitzen itza, angkor wat), then add all the great prophets to my city for hammers and gold. With angkor wat, my priest specialists will give me even more hammers and more prophets.

To start, I'll build a second warrior to help scout, while researching agriculture and archery, mostly working one of the lake tiles, but I'll micromanage with the forests so that my warrior pops out as I reach size 2. At size two I'm going for a worker, who will farm the wheat first, then mine the hills. I'm skipping the sheep at first, in favor of using those lake tiles to speed my early research.

Then it's Mysticism, Bronze Working. Chop Stonehenge, build archers while researching priesthood. I'll probably have to lay off the lake tiles while I build a few archers for sentry duty, because here's what may suck...

Against my better judgement, I"m building the Oracle before settlers. I'll need the confucian holy city in my capital, so when my first prophet comes out, I can build my shrine, giving me access to four priest specialists (with temple). I'm gambling here that my borders will have expanded enough to be able to help chop 2-3 settlers immediately after, and my archers that I built will be able to keep the barbarians at bay.

 

[kojimanard]

I suppose that if anyone has finished this game and wants to communicate about it while it's fresh in their mind, they could PM someone who has submitted the game; there are over 20 submissions already. (I haven't uploaded the game; doing practice games). Please correct me if this is not permitted.

 

[beestar]

I've almost finished a practice game on the same settings as GOTM-2.

I saw the same graphics glitch mentioned earlier. In my game it looks like a bright "seam" at the edge of the map (the edge of the absolute, "centered" map - think of it as the International Date Line). The bright seam illuminates a little bit of one column of tiles but all it revealed was jungle.

Barbarians weren't a problem at the beginning because it was lions and wolves for thousands of years, and animals never enter your cultural boundaries. So it's possible to delay developing archers until a little later. I had Montezuma and the Incas as neighbours, and their early UUs were pretty terrifying but they never rushed my settlers or workers (does the AI ever do that?)

In the later years, there are tons of barbarian warriorss / archers / axemen. I think it's because Lakes maps have so much more land, and therefore lots of black space which remains unexplored and thus fertile barbarian territory. Another factor is that the entire world is continuous land, so barbarians aren't stuck on islands - they can travel halfway around the world to attack you if they have to. I had some warriors perform guard duty at the north pole to keep it out of the fog of war and prevent barbarians from being generated, but I'm not sure how successful that was.

Maintaining a contiguous territory is really hard with so many cultures jostling for land. In the end I produced a sort of blob shape, and ended up expanded by conquest and settlers into a U-shape that encircled Montezuma. Even though we had good trade relations and shared the same religion and had Open Borders, he declared on me. The AI seems to hate being surrounded ...

Anyway, that was my one practice game with the same settings as the GOTM2 (not the official GOTM2 save game, obviously)

 

[diamond geezer]

"it was lions and wolves for thousands of years"

The game lasts 6 thousand years, but the first 3 pass very quickly in game turns. I've generally found on these large continent maps that by the time you've explored most of the world you are starting to get warriors rather than animals.

 

[Solostian]

PRINCE!

Being a newbie at CivIV (and Civ in general), I am yet unable to win at Noble level.
Couldn't the GOTM come in different experience levels (ex: recruits, regulars and veterans)? It would help bring in as many players as possible to share in the GOTM...

--
Solostian
"Luckily for me, ridicule does not kill."

 

[ainwood]

PRINCE!

Being a newbie at CivIV (and Civ in general), I am yet unable to win at Noble level.
Couldn't the GOTM come in different experience levels (ex: recruits, regulars and veterans)? It would help bring in as many players as possible to share in the GOTM...

We will run three different levels starting in a month or so - we've been doing that in the Civ3 GOTMs for a long time now.

Prince is OK - just practice, and read the articles in the strategy forums for ideas etc. The spoilers (opening soon) are a great place to post what you did and seek advice from other people - ask others why they did what they did, and try to work out how you could do better.

 

[beestar]

"it was lions and wolves for thousands of years"

The game lasts 6 thousand years, but the first 3 pass very quickly in game turns. I've generally found on these large continent maps that by the time you've explored most of the world you are starting to get warriors rather than animals.

Yes, you're absolutely right. But it sounds cooler when I say "thousands of years".

 

[TylerDurdon]

First I want to thank everyone who answer my former questions about workers...

But I have more questions... maybe basic!! but hell got to know!!!

I've read the specialization of city article and I wonder whats a good growing rate?! 3f/turn or more?

What size a production/commerce city must be ?

A last one... lets say... with GOTM2... I feel like going for conquest... how much production city may be nessesary? Since we are financial I guess we need less commerce city to get the same results or maybe I must make a better use of the trait and push it?!!!

Normally I would try this out... but I'm lacking spare time and want to summit this baby on time

 

[AlanH]

Since many players will have downloaded the start file now, and are ineligible to post here, you may not get much response to these questions. If you have general strategy questions before you start it's probably better to ask them in the strategy forum, as long as you don't reference this game specifically.