GOTM 03 Pre-Game Discussion

[Cosine]

Played a test game myself(who hasn't at this point), but I was pressed for time, so I only played it at Prince level.

The barbs were a pain in my ass. They spawn readily at the edge of the map in the one or two fogged tiles I can't see into.
At one point Greece attacked me while a string of Barbs were heading towards my city. Luckily, roads were numerous at this point and I used the barbs as XP gifts to my units. I would walk out and premptively attack barbs for the points then in the same turn would get back to the city in question for defense when Alexander attacks. This trick worked pretty well.

I haven't played Monarch yet, but I'm conifdent I'll be competitive. There was something about the crowded nature of the map that led to faster religion spread then I'm used to. Hope it is comparable one level up.

 

[Markus5]

I played enough test games to convince myself that I'll be OK at this level. It should be OK. I plan to research to archery first. I've found that barbs are troublesome, so I'd like to get archers for defense. Then, I'll research pottery, mining and bronze working. Probably not in that order. Then research writing and alphabet. Finally research to allow samuari. I'm expecting vigorous tech trading. I'll build a warrior first, then a barracks, then archers. I'll start building archers, workers and settlers to expand. The two warriors will scout the local area looking for huts, resources and building sites. If they survive, they act as pickets. I'm not going to explore much beyond my local area. I like exploring, but it really doesn't buy much. Most of the other civs will find me in short order. I plan to use some kind of chop/mine/cottage scheme. If there are flood plains, that's great. Cottages on flood plains are good money makers. I hope to get a small force of 6-10 axes or swords oe even horse archers to take 2 or 3 ciities from a neighbor. Then, rest and build the economy. But, when I have samuari, I'll make a larger army and push well into one civ to crush it.

Best laid plans of mice and men...

 

[jsut]

am i the only one that thinks there might be a resource or a hut in the forest to the south east of the settler?

 

[Methos]

[Talking about meeting people] Are you sure? I am 90% sure that unlike Civ 3 other people knowing techs has no influence on the cost to you. If I am wrong I will have to totally change my early game strategy.

I am sure I have had a neigbour discover meditation (and so become budist) and the price for me has not changed.

Check out Requies's Technology Research Explained article.

 

[totororo]

i just gave a try to this kind of map on monarch difficulty and guess what: i won by domination in 1600. I made my best score ever. around 92000. I've never won at such a difficulty level.

Actually, i didn't find the barbs to be a problem (one just need to be a bit careful at the very beginning).

On my map, tropîcal meant a lot of forest. I chopped like hell. I was able to rush four cities and build the pyramids. I never chose any religion and focused on military tech. After those four cities, i built a huge army of axemen, and destroyed the americans in around 300 ad. Then i knew i was to win, provided i kept on the warmongering path. I was almost always at war from 1Ad to 1600Ad, switching from one enemy to another to have my citizen cry a little less. They somehow like facing different opponents.

Defending your empire is awfully easy on such a map.

PS: i forgot to say i felt ashamed to loose by three turns on the space race in the last gtom... bloody mansa

EDIT: while reading other posts (especially Shillen's: thx a lot), i realize how much mine was useless. My map must have been pretty easy, since i have much more difficulties on others.
I also want to had that the map you had for your cottage spam strategy (shillen, i mean), was also very easy. Having copper in the capital ring is making a huge difference. That and floodplains almost ensure you to win a fast domination. I still think that's the right path, though.

 

[Adonias]

PS: i forgot to say i felt ashamed to loose by three turns on the space race in the last gtom... bloody mansa

You're not the only one....

Btw, In some testgames, when I built my capital on a plainshill and had some floodplains around, I started with pottery, got a worker ready as soon as pottery was around, then built ANOTHER worker while researching mining, and then while waiting for BW the workers can improve basically anything around the capital (improving is a too big a word... cottagespamming and mining everything is more accurate), while the capital builds warriors to fight FOW. After BW, chop chop settler, and if there is a very good second spot and lots of forest aroudn chop chop another settler after which I start building either a library or the oracle... It's a bit more fuzzy then... BUT the two workers strategy seems to work quite well

 

[Memphus]

You had both civil service and machinery at 400AD? Or just civil service? I also had math, currency, construction, iron working, alphabet, monarchy, calendar and literature, though. Also over 400g in the bank.

edit: I attached my starting sav file. I didn't use world builder to make it like the GOTM map or anything, but the starting situation is pretty similar. I moved the settler 2 south onto the plains hill.

edit2: There weren't enough forests to warrant a second worker right away. I actually didn't chop much at all.

Well I gave it a whirl as well and stopped at 340 B.C. just like DaveMcW. Unfortunately I am 11 turns away from machinery...due to my choosing to get mathmatics before iron...I figured someone would trade me for it. However I am a couple of turns away from completing the pyramids(chopping after hooking up stone).

This was a great game for me to experiment with trading with different AI's since they are all different.

Note: I did reload a number of times around when I got alphabet as I said because I was working with the trading and AI's with the tech set which I will most likely have for the GOTM. So in that respect, my game isn't really valid.

 

[Samson]

So, has anyone tried any test games starting with no techs (Challenger class)? Do you reakon it will be possible to get CoL with the oricle?

And if I want to try it, I assume you can remove technologies from a civ in the world builder?

 

[Shillen]

It isn't much of a handicap IMO as fishing is virtually useless unless you put your second city near a sea resource.

edit: Of course it does kinda kill the pottery first strategy. Which is kind of why I'm not too fond of predator/challenger class. Taking strategies away is not a good thing in my book. It does kind of put people on the spot a bit. I've been seen stating that monarch is still easy and praising the staff for continuing to increase the difficulty. So I'll feel guilty if I play on open class after making those remarks. I almost feel like people would expect me to play challenger, which I may end up doing.

 

[Samson]

It isn't much of a handicap IMO as fishing is virtually useless unless you put your second city near a sea resource.

ISTM that the big diadvantage is you have to reserch 2 more techs before CoL. In all but 1 of my test games I was able to get CoL with the oricle (sp?). Now with these 2 extra techs (120 more beakers). That could make all the difference.

 

[Shillen]

In most of my games I self-researched code of laws. I used the oracle on either civil service or metal casting. I think I could still research code of laws and grab metal casting with the oracle. Civil service would be difficult.

 

[Ambiorix]

@Shillen :
if you play open, it's easier for lesser gods to compare their game with yours.
Play challenger if you want the extra challenge - otherwise don't feel guilty.
Just have fun.

 

[horragoth]

It isn't much of a handicap IMO as fishing is virtually useless unless you put your second city near a sea resource.

edit: Of course it does kinda kill the pottery first strategy. Which is kind of why I'm not too fond of predator/challenger class. Taking strategies away is not a good thing in my book. It does kind of put people on the spot a bit. I've been seen stating that monarch is still easy and praising the staff for continuing to increase the difficulty. So I'll feel guilty if I play on open class after making those remarks. I almost feel like people would expect me to play challenger, which I may end up doing.

I do not know if it help you, but I do not expect you to play challenger class, in fact I hope you will not. IMO this particular scenario offers multitude of early research paths that I would like see compared. The comparison would be impossible to do if every good player choose challenger class.

 

[mzprox]

I can't decide which class should I play with.. . I think i'll wait to see which is the most popular amongst the other players.
(I'll probably take the challenger, but I don't like these classes at all ..)

 

[aviator99_uk]

Played the test game up to 500AD

Frustrations:
1) Not a cultural civ so expanding borders meant Stonehenge. Even so next to Cyrus that still meant that he could put a city right on a border and take me to the cleaners.
2) No point in developing religion as that just makes all neighbours who have a religion unhappy, and you may not have the resources to post missionaries into those civs.
3) Great Prophet from stonehenge just about to come up but what's the point. It just delays the GPs you really want and I'm just not that good at picking a city to develop GP points.
4) Tech trading whore mansa just p***es me off.

In the end Cyrus started to beat me after about the 5th or 6th time we had ben at war, I was so far back in tech it just wasn't fun anymore so I retired.

Can't decide if I want to play this or not, probably don't, but unless the guys who decide what to play get some feedback then happen GoTM will just become a special for those that can and leave those that can't behind.

 

[Markus5]

Tally ho!
The game is afoot.

 

[ewokimpi]

I thought the warmongers amoung us might appreciate some info on how far Fe, Cu and horses occur from the capital. So I looked back thru six practice starts on Inland Sea/Trop/High and developed this table:

Resource / Average distance to nearest occurrence / Variance

Copper / 9.8 tiles / 4 to 15

Iron / 2.3 tiles / 2 to 4

Horses / 6.5 tiles / 4 to 10


So it appears that early Axeman rush favored by so many will be done after researching Iron Working, not Bronze Working, unless the map gods are very kind!

It does look like we can depend on Fe being near the cap. Although if you you don't actually scout ALL the tiles near your cap, you miss it, as happened to me in one practice game, the Game In Which I Donated All My Iron to Alexander.

Of course, we can just go play the game now and find out!

 

[jayeffaar]

I thought the warmongers amoung us might appreciate some info on how far Fe, Cu and horses occur from the capital. So I looked back thru six practice starts on Inland Sea/Trop/High and developed this table:...

Of course, your milleage may vary. In my three practice starts, I never had copper anywhere near my territory, and only found Iron twice (and always on the outskirts of my civ, in inconvenient spots). I thought those were typical circumstances, but jugding from other people's finds, it just looks like things may vary A LOT.

 

[Shillen]

While I'm sure it can vary quite a bit I'm definitely noticing a trend of copper being more rare than iron is across my games and other people's on here. But with the GOTM, since it's not a 100% random map you really can't base anything off of that. It could very well be that ainwood generated a random map, found no copper nearby, and then added some right next to the starting settler.

 

[DaveMcW]

It could very well be that ainwood generated a random map, found no copper nearby, and then added some right next to the starting settler.

Maybe he added copper to one of those northern hills, to spite everyone who moves south to the plains hill?

... nevermind, I'm thinking of the wrong GOTM staff member.