GOTM-03 Saves Available

[shadow2k]

So you've asked us all have you (because I don't remember being asked)? Or is that just a personal assumption that you speak for all of us?

The one thing we can be certain of is that it is not checked now. By lessening the cost of accidental spoilers, you lessen the cost of admitting to them, so fewer people will "pretend it never happened".

And a number of factors about the GOTM mean we are currently likely to have quite a few subtly spoilt games submitted. Actually, GOTM3 works well as an example -

The first post in the first spoiler thread for GOTM3 reveals details about a resource that is not shown in the pre-game discussion. This post can appear within the same screen as the thread-requirements header post without even scrolling down, and given that it is less than an two inches below the header post it would be difficult to scroll-wheel scroll to read the foot of the header post without revealing it anyway. So, any late player that comes to check the requirements for the first thread (to help with his/her story-writing, knowing what details he can mention etc) is instantly likely to have his/her game spoilt. Do you seriously believe that nobody who started their game after 8 Feb and went to check what the first thread spoiler requirements are will submit their game?

Considering people agree to play by the GOTM rules when they play, why would there be any large group of people who want to see the results of games where those rules are broken? That makes no sense at all.

By admitting games where rules were broken, you could just as easily say that more people will do it because they know that the rules don't really matter, unless in contention for a medal. I don't want to see people with high scores that have asterisks by their name, because we all know they didn't play by the same rules the rest of us did.

Why even have rules at that point? Let's just let everyone use worldbuilder, and they can just have asterisks by their scores. The top 50 scores could all be in 4000BC, with astronomical scores...and they didn't even play a turn. Obviously that's a bit extreme, but you get the point. Honestly, would you really care about GOTM at that point?

From what I've seen, the general consensus on these forums is that games where the player gives themselves unnatural advantage don't count for much. For example, someone claiming they can beat Deity. When the community finds out it was even just a duel sized map, nobody cares anymore. If it was standard settings, but they used worldbuilder, nobody cares. Somehow, I doubt the feeling is going to differ much from there to here.

 

[AlanH]

So you've asked us all have you (because I don't remember being asked)? Or is that just a personal assumption that you speak for all of us?

No, I haven't asked anyone. I can tell you that GOTM has always attempted to be a competition played on a level playing field. What possible interest could legitimate players take in the relative scores for games played on any other field?

The one thing we can be certain of is that it is not checked now.

Now who's making assumption?

By lessening the cost of accidental spoilers, you lessen the cost of admitting to them, so fewer people will "pretend it never happened".

The cost of admitting to them is the same regardless of whether we display the spoilt results or not. You don't get ranked and you don't get a chance of an award. Getting your name published as clumsy, or careless of the rules, or worse would seem to me to be neutral-to-negative.

And a number of factors about the GOTM mean we are currently likely to have quite a few subtly spoilt games submitted.

[snip]

Do you seriously believe that nobody who started their game after 8 Feb and went to check what the first thread spoiler requirements are will submit their game?

We run a competition with rules that are requested, and implicitly agreed to, by its participants. We shall attempt to enforce those rules. *If* we fail to do so that doesn't invalidate the rules, it only reflects on our incompetence, and on the integrity of those who flaunt them.

 

[whb]

No, I haven't asked anyone. I can tell you that GOTM has always attempted to be a competition played on a level playing field. What possible interest could legitimate players take in the relative scores for games played on any other field?

I'll take that as a genuine question and give you a few answers, since I myself am interested in the relative scores of players who have accidentally revealed some kind of a spoiler.

Firstly, it helps bind the community by encouraging continued participation rather than "go away, we don't want you for a month". I'm always happy to see continued participation of the non-obsessive. Who are the most likely not to come back after the month.

Secondly, I'm actually slightly more inclined to trust the sportsmanship of posters such as azamann33 (sp?) who have shown they have the courage and honesty to stick their hand up and admit to having spoilt their game. So I would probably be slightly more interested in reading details about his GOTM3 gameplay than the game of a random late-submitter who might not tell me of undue influence in his decisions. If players such as azamann33 are not permitted to submit the game at all, they are less likely to play it through and tell us about it.

Thirdly - and I'm baffled that the admins haven't already shown an interest in this - we can get some kind of an indication of the effect of those spoilers. We cannot if all the data points (actual spoilt GOTM games, rather than made-up experiments that might not be played quite the same way) are encouraged to be immediately discarded. A rough guess would be that it doesn't actually make that much difference (and in another thread that appears to be the prevalent view); however if it turned out that it did make a big difference, I would strongly advice turning off anonymous access to reading the spoiler threads for starters!

The cost of admitting to them is the same regardless of whether we display the spoilt results or not. You don't get ranked and you don't get a chance of an award.

That's an amazingly narrow-minded view of why people take part in GOTMs for this or other games. It takes no account of community and shared social experiences whatsoever.

We run a competition with rules that are requested, and implicitly agreed to, by its participants. We shall attempt to enforce those rules. *If* we fail to do so that doesn't invalidate the rules, it only reflects on our incompetence, and on the integrity of those who flaunt them.

Nonetheless, I don't see that as being a barrier to publishing the data on ineligible entries.

 

[Methos]

So I would probably be slightly more interested in reading details about his GOTM3 gameplay than the game of a random late-submitter who might not tell me of undue influence in his decisions.

I realize that this isn’t what you are saying, but the implication can be taken that late submitters are possibly cheaters. Recall that everyone here has non-Civ obligations and can’t always sit down and play IVOTM as soon the saves come out. Just for myself, in both GOTM 1&2 I’ve had to force myself the last weekend of the month to take the time just to finish both games. Does that make me a possible cheater, or other late submitters?

My apologies, it’s just the implication of cheating, even when not directed at me, irks me to no ends. Rather than state, or even suggest, someone may or may not be cheating, it’s best to just play your own game and enjoy yourselve. Leave it to our trustworthy GOTM Staff to locate those players who seek “other means” of winning the game.

 

[Ementio]

I've been looking for the February Civ IV GOTM since the beginning of the month and just found this forum today. Can I suggest that you guys update the GOTM link on the Civfanatics homepage?

Thanks

 

[AlanH]

The Civ4 GOTM link on teh CFC home page takes you to the GOTM home page. The GOTM home page includes links to all GOTM resources - Civ3 on the left, Civ4 on the right. The right hand Civ4 menu includes a link to this forum. It also includes a link to the current active game.

 

[Ementio]

I followed your instructions, Alan H., but still couldn't find the link. Maybe I'm just unusually dense today, but it seems to me that something as basic as how to find the latest Civ IV GOTM should be a prominently displayed no-brainer and users shouldn't have to navigate all over the place. Just a suggestion.

Thanks

 

[DaveMcW]

When a link is a graphic, I always like having linked text below the graphic taking you to the same place.

 

[AlanH]

the latest Civ IV GOTM should be a prominently displayed no-brainer and users shouldn't have to navigate all over the place

The CFC home page supports far more than Civ4 GOTM, It cannot be replaced by the GOTM home page, or contain more than one or two links to it. Thunderfall has been good enough to provide a direct link to the GOTM web site on the home page of the main web site. That gets you straight to our GOTM home page containing links to pages for all the current games, both Civ3 and Civ4, and to this forum. I'm sorry this doesn't meet your needs, but I don't know how we can make it much simpler.

Here is a pictorial map:

​

If you subscribe to this forum using the appropriate Quick Link at the top of the forum listing you will see new Civ4 GOTM threads in your User CP as they are posted.

Please note that if you have an RSS-capable browser you can also subscribe to RSS feeds for CFC news, and for this Civ4 GOTM forum. The former will notify you when news items are published, including new game announcements. The latter will notify you of new threads in the forum, including the Pre-game and Saves Available threads for new games.

 

[AlanH]

When a link is a graphic, I always like having linked text below the graphic taking you to the same place.

Images should always have an "alt" text that you can see by hovering over them, whether or not they are links. Links - both pictorial and textual, often also have "title" text that appears when you hover, giving more information about the link's purpose.

Please let me know if there are links under my control (ie on the GOTM web site) that can be improved in any way.

 

[DaveMcW]

Yes, the homepage link is very clear. I was referring to the Contender class save file.

Click on the image below to download the contender class start save file.

​

I would rather see something like this:

C-IV Contender-Class save file​

 

[AlanH]

Ah, well, therein lies a tale!

Some people with very aggressive ad blockers complained that they couldn't see the image last month. So I changed it from having the text embedded in the graphic to having a separate text link. There was only one file last month, so when the three-file page was created for GOTM 3 it looks like the change got mislaid.

Anyway, I've made it so. Thanks.

 

[White Elk]

At risk of declaring the extent of my computing ignorance.. I can't figure out how to subscribe to the RSS feeds. Would someone be so kind as to instruct me and others on how this is done?

 

[DaveMcW]

You need a News Aggregator to subscribe to RSS feeds.

Or if you have a modern web browser, you can subscribe by clicking the RSS button.

>
Firefox

 

[White Elk]

Thanks for the help Dave. I've got FireFox but haven't found the button.

 

[AlanH]

If there's a button that looks like on a web page then you can click it to subscribe Firefox to that feed. The links in my post should also work, though I didn't attach this image button to them.

 

[DaveMcW]

Firefox doesn't seem to like your buttons - it just opens the text of the xml file.

Here is the button that works:

 

[White Elk]

Thanks guys!

Gheez.. I'd never thought of looking at that button.

 

[AlanH]

Hmm! Safari has spoilt me, as it "just works".

I hadn't tried Firefox's RSS feature since I got version 1.5, but I have to say it doesn't come close to the convenience of Safari's transparent RSS operation. I may be missing the blindingly obvious, but without a third party extension like newsfox I can't see how to control which feeds it monitors.

 

[White Elk]

Well it's all news to me. I'm RSS fed now but I'll have to wait and see how it works once you post some new news. I'm a little disappointed in how my cursor acts in FF, among other minor things. I'll give Safari a shot and see what it's about.


Heres what I get when I click on the RSS button on the GOTM page...