GOTM 04 - Pre-Game Discussion

[Memphus]

Did you achieved this on Roland's map? If yes, i need to work on it. I am able to achieve the Civil service combo, but without building any other city. When did you build your settler?

I don't know about him or what my dates were exactly, but I can also slingshot to CS (on Ronald's map) and will do so for the GOTM.

And Although in my post here I did build a settler (never put him down I was messin' around ) If there is iron or copper I won't waste time building a settler, I'll just score everyoen else's cities

But I did research alphabet before CS cause I needed to trade for all the worker techs and start really growing (Capital is size 11 by 125 B.C. and still )

@Thrallia 1700 is a good date, keep in mind the speed of the game drastically affects domination and conquest wins (i.e. this month on normal is gonna tough to do it early)

 

[kingjoshi]

Getting religion, wonders, etc really depends upon the other Leaders. Isabella seems to get most if not all the early religions. A financial Civ can learn Confucianism without the Oracle really early. One time in my test game, Oracle was built in 1440BC. A couple of turns away from it and I lose out on Code of Laws! And without Hinduism or Judaism, I get hit with unhappiness really early.

Then you have certain games where the barbs rampage (maybe someone else got a hostile hut?) and you can be knocked out early if you're not prepared.

So I'm looking into other strategies that are safer from various possibilities. Not to mention adapting to the map we're given (alone on island, pangea, #of islands, #civs on our island, etc). Emporer level seems to be above me right now...

 

[CaptainEO]

I did the Civil Service slingshot in two test games, but only at huge cost. The bottleneck was researching to Code of Laws. Without gold or gems it's like 30 turns at least.

 

[culdeus]

I am gonna try to do ronald's game without any tech hut hits to see the worst case Civil Service timeline on a OCC. The religion thing is just one which only equals 2 comm/turn maybe a 4-6 turn delay. I dunno I'm bad at math. I'll post the log in stories later tonight maybe.

Zero huts visited. No second city built, Roland's Map:

Turn 67 (1320 BC)
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Confucianism founded in Delhi
Confucianism has spread: Delhi
Delhi finishes: The Oracle

Turn 68 (1280 BC)
Research begun: Civil Service
Tech learned: Civil Service
Research begun: Bronze Working

So IMO getting gold in huts can support a second city growth. With no gold huts if you want to get the oracle first and don't pop a hut you prolly have to go OCC. Civil service took 29 turns.

glllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3759518#post3759518

 

[Tech Step]

Can someone please eiter explain the CS slingshot or post a link to it.

cheers.

 

[kingjoshi]

Can someone please eiter explain the CS slingshot or post a link to it.

cheers.

Research Priesthood, writing and Code of Laws. Then time it so that the Oracle is finished on the same turn as CoL. Choose Civil SService as your free tech from the Oracle. Then you can switch to Bureacracy which will boost all productions and research. If you chopped a Library and started work on a Great Scientists, an Academy is a nice touch. But on this level, doing this slingshot (since you jump multiple eras on a turn) will cost much more in expansion.

 

[Memphus]

Alright after my first post I wasn't with how I was doing at 175 B.C. for a couple reasons:

1. I didn't explore so I couldn't trade as well
2. I didn't explore so my trade routes sucked (1gp per route)
3. I reasearched Monarchy something I wouldn't do
4. I didn't use a worker steal

So I tired again, playing for serious this time right until 1 AD (it took me about 3 hours)

And here is the difference in results in a 30 min game here:

And a 3 hour game below:

There are again 4 pictures which says it all:

Buildings which you can't see on the inside of Delhi include:
Oracle
Pyramids
Great Lighthouse
Great Library
Colosus

Edit:don't mind the farms my workers got bored

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

Hi folks,

I'm new to CivIV but I was a huge SMAC fan. This GOTM will be my 4th CivIV game. I tried out GOTM3 and was not able to win. I didn't submit b/ I went back on some saves after some stupid moves.

I've been reading with fasination about GOTM4. Yes it's the highest level I will have tried yet but the idea of trying for a cultural victory seemed cool. I download Ronald's save and tried it out.

I was not as "efficient" as I'm sure the more experienced players are but I think a cultural victory was possible for me. At 1650AD I had about 10k culture in 3 (out of 5) cities and was just about to crank up the culture slider after having saved some cash (about 2500 gold).

Then all of a sudden Victoria, who was right next to 1 of my 3 culture cities decides to declare war!!! She proceed to target my highest culture cites and wipe them out 1 by 1. She was pleased with me too. I didn't know that she was a backstabber. I'm just curious if this type of thing happens normally. I had good relations with her for a while. Earlier in the game she was Annoyed b/ I had a different religion but I converted to keep her and most of the planet happy.

If so, then I guess I should have had a better military. I had some weak units but I was also using Pacifism and didn't want too many units.

thanks,
Gorgon

 

[mushroomshirt]

As I said in an earlier post, getting polytheism first only seems possible if you pop a hut for some money. Then you can put research back to 100%.

In several tries, the AI beat me to polytheism by one or two turns if I wasn't researching at 100%.

I am starting to think that the early religion strategy may not be the way to go. It may boil down to what those little huts have to offer. That seems risky to me. Any thoughts?

I am not sure I agree with you. In test games the happiness limit of really hurts. This is extra true in second and 3rd cities if they are founded. The happiness limit there keeps you even from whipping pop effectively. Unless there are some nearby luxury resources an early religion seems very appealing.

I hear some comments here about going fishing -> poly, but I have to think that is a pretty risky strategy and if it doesn't pay off you are stuck going for monotheism or just giving up on early religion all together.

I think I will go meditation->fishing->BW->priesthood->writing. I have tried to avoid early religions and get worker techs in test games and it just doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. I think with maintenance costs high you probably need to make the most out of each city and the only way to do this is make sure you have an early religion.

have you tried this approach vs. poly out the gate? I have been successful researching meditation in test games...

[edited because I can't read]

 

[Jeff1787]

I am not sure I agree with you. In test games the happiness limit of really hurts. This is extra true in second and 3rd cities if they are founded. The happiness limit there keeps you even from whipping pop effectively. Unless there are some nearby luxury resources an early religion seems very appealing.

I hear some comments here about going fishing -> poly, but I have to think that is a pretty risky strategy and if it doesn't pay off you are stuck going for monotheism or just giving up on early religion all together.

I think I will go meditation->fishing->BW->priesthood->writing. I have tried to avoid early religions and get worker techs in test games and it just doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. I think with maintenance costs high you probably need to make the most out of each city and the only way to do this is make sure you have an early religion.

have you tried this approach vs. poly out the gate? I have been successful researching meditation in test games...

[edited because I can't read]

OK, I tried it your way for 35 turns:

Turn 0 (4000 BC)
Delhi founded
Delhi begins: Warrior
Research begun: Meditation

Turn 3 (3880 BC)
Tribal village results: lots of gold...This helped!!

Turn 4 (3840 BC)
Delhi's borders expand
Delhi finishes: Warrior
Contact made: Egyptian Empire

Turn 5 (3800 BC)
Delhi begins: Stonehenge
Tribal village results: technology
Tech learned: Bronze Working....so did this!!! This was from a hut.

Turn 7 (3720 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.48/2): Barbarian Wolf

Turn 10 (3600 BC)
Delhi grows: 2

Turn 12 (3520 BC)
Contact made: English Empire
Tech learned: Meditation
Buddhism founded in Delhi
Buddhism has spread: Delhi

Turn 13 (3480 BC)
Research begun: Fishing

Turn 18 (3280 BC)
Tech learned: Fishing

Turn 19 (3240 BC)
Research begun: Priesthood

Turn 20 (3200 BC)
Hinduism founded in a distant land
Warrior defeats (0.74/2): Barbarian Bear

Turn 21 (3160 BC)
Warrior promoted: Woodsman I
Delhi finishes: Stonehenge

Turn 22 (3120 BC)
Delhi begins: Settler
Delhi begins: Fast Worker
Delhi's borders expand

Turn 26 (2960 BC)
Tech learned: Priesthood

Turn 27 (2920 BC)
Research begun: Writing

Turn 31 (2760 BC)
Delhi finishes: Fast Worker

Turn 32 (2720 BC)
Delhi begins: Barracks

Turn 35 (2600 BC)
Judaism founded in a distant land

This may be the way to go for early religion.....but I wonder if the real top notch players are even going to mess with an early religion.....

 

[Tech Step]

Research Priesthood, writing and Code of Laws. Then time it so that the Oracle is finished on the same turn as CoL. Choose Civil SService as your free tech from the Oracle. Then you can switch to Bureacracy which will boost all productions and research.

and how did this actually help?

I understand what it does but why is it anything special?

 

[Thrallia]

because when you finish the slingshot you have civil service, which is half of what you need for macemen, and also gives you access to Bureaucracy...which many people use to give themselves a big prod/science boost in their capital

I'll be skipping an attempt at the CS Slingshot simply because I've yet to manage to complete it higher than prince...I get distracted by other 'priorities' too easily

 

[Memphus]

I'll be skipping an attempt at the CS Slingshot simply because I've yet to manage to complete it higher than prince...I get distracted by other 'priorities' too easily

Anything above prince and it is a risk. Even if very commited to it the ai does funny things sometimes. (I.E. oracle built in 2120B.C. )

However all that being said if there was no risk it wouldn't fun and so fullfilling to complete succesfully.

 

[kingjoshi]

and how did this actually help?

I understand what it does but why is it anything special?

Because in this process you've gotten a religion for Happiness (Confucianism) and got techs you needed anyway, but by spending some hammers on the Oracle (it's actually pretty cheap), you save tons of turns to get CS. You can leverage either of these techs after Alphabet (probably CoL but I'd wait on CS as to prevent others from getting Macemen against me).

Don't discount the advantage of Bureacracy. A Capital with Bureacracy, Library and Academy can out-research certain civs. And the hammer boost is tremendous.

It was a tremendous strategy for 4otm 3 because of getting Samurai (just needed Metal Casting & Machinery). But to each their own strategy.

 

[Thrallia]

well, even on prince I only got it done once...and I lost out on oracle slingshot in GOTM3 by a ton, I had just gotten the tech to be able to build it when it was built by Victoria

 

[rddc05]

What is that nice log program that you all are running, color coded and everything. Does that come with the game? If so, how do you turn it on and/or find the log file?

Thx.

 

[Thrallia]

that is the autologger....Ainwood allowed it's use last GOTM, lemme get the link for you real quick...

Autologger

one thing to note is that it might mess up the score you get in your HoF...in the allowed mods thread in this Forum someone posted the change to the scoring algorithm, if you want to change it.

 

[Jastrow]

On the topic of the autologger...

After I installed it, every time I start a game, it asks me for a file name TWICE, and in the log, all entries appear doubled. Any ideas???

 

[Thrallia]

try getting the new version, he said people were getting that problem and fixed it, at least...people with 1.2 that I've seen aren't having that issue anymore

*eagerly awaits the arrival of ainwood with the saves!!!

 

[kingjoshi]

Do you have a comprehensive mod that incorporated autologger without you realizing it? Did you ever make modifications to your files?

If you upload them, I can check it out for you. Or you could reinstall it.

EDIT: I recently downloaded autolog 1.2 and even that has the scoring issue.