GOTM 06 - Pre Game Discussion

[al_thor]

Move the Scout onto the hill to the north-west to expose those tiles and THEN make the decision to settle in place or move one tile west. Maybe there will be a food bonus?
I prefer settling on a river as opposed to a fresh-water lake.

But, knowing the GOTM staff, the bonus will be in a tile that requires you to settle on that forested river tile or even on that plains-hill-fresh-water tile, which would cost 2 turns to get to. Any bets?

Being Noble, I will not hesitate to do either of the above openings if it means garnering a cow or other food bonus.

 

[Mahatmajon]

I won't take the bet about the best place ending up on a forest 2 turns away, but I'm tempted to move the scout 2SW to reveal more tiles for a potential move/settle on the first turn somewhere to the West. I've seen a lot of discussions about 'scouting' a few turns with the settler before founding though and might have to try that. No plans to go for an early religion so getting a nice capital could be well worth a delay of 3-4 turns.

 

[Tauro]

Remember that's normal speed

 

[Paulk]

I've playing a few practice maps on these settings and it looks like fractal is incredibly random map style. I've seen long stretched out pangea landmasses to spaced out archepilago style map. But about 50% of the time I got a 2 fairly even continets landmasses. So a quick conquest looks incredibly doubtful and will probably need astronomy. Also with low sea level there is a ton of land which makes for a more time consuming domniation victory. Playing as KK means very low chance of getting an early religion, but maybe able to capture a holy city from one of the other civs on our landmass; consequently making culture victory a viable option. And as always space race and diplomatic victory as last resorts. On the plus side it seems that there are very few crapy city locations (tundra/desert) and very little jungle. For a noble difficulty this GOTM will be fun and time consuming.

I will move my scout first 1N and then 1W onto the hill. If there is another plains hill just within the starting spots big + (to the east), I'll build my city where it is, unless I can see some Food resources by the plains hill to the NW than I might take the extra 2 turns to build my city on the hill.

Paulk

 

[Amitabh]

Looks like another fun GOTM.

I have never played fractal maps before, but will start experimenting with similar start settings.

With Keshiks available with HBR (let's hope horses are available nearby!) it seems hard to avoid some early conquering. Personally, I've had an overdose of this with excessive replays of the previous GOTM in order to gain an early conquest victory.

With the creative trait, I am inclined to conquer 1 or 2 neighbours, then go for a cultural win. I would move the scout NW to the plains hill, then probably settler 1W to the river.

I dont think I am patient enough for a prolonged naval conquest game. Diplo is also an option of course, although I have never been able to pull this off just yet...

 

[jayeffaar]

The problem with fractal maps is that practice games won't help us much. Unlike last month's game, where all Great Plains map are pretty much the same, fractals vary so much that we have no clear idea what to expect (which is a lot of fun).

I'm hoping to expand and conquer quickly and try to get to optics early so I can go looking for unclaimed large islands,which tend to appear on some fractal maps. Maybe keep a few settlers on ice so I can send them sailing on my first galleons if I do discover those islands.

 

[Amitabh]

I guess using the world builder to randomize the map multiple times would give a good idea of what these maps are all about... and their alleged unpredictability.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I'm thinking I might scout SE with the scouts on the first turn and go NW with the settler if no goodies appear...
Next turn, scout W SW so we check out all tiles that we'll miss on the move to the plains hill.

I don't like the Creative trait much. Suppose AGR is alright for a war game on noble

 

[al_thor]

I think that I will go for a Culture win. Anyone want to join me in the Kublai Khan Kulture Klub? You know, sort of a "sub-competition"?

 

[Paulk]

The KKKK? Culture win will be fun with Kubulai hopefully the civs that start by us found an early relgion for a quick Keshik Rush. Next I'll go for CoL for Confucism and currency to support my massive empire. Maybe get some Great Prophets and found the other later religions.

Paulk

 

[Samson]

I have started a few games just to see what fractal looks like, and not got 1 where you cannot see a resorce from the starting position. If anyone gets one, it would be nice to see it just to evaluate what pops up around the capital. I do not know how the capital bonuses work, but I would put money on copper or horses in the fat cross if you do not move the settler.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I'll be going for Conquest this game. I don't know how I'll start yet. Reading some of those games about how good it was to explore initially with the settler have me thinking, as it goes against what I normally do.

I have to join the crowd of those who don't like GH's popping settlers, so I hope that can be changed now or in the next patch (setting GH pops, etc.). While it was a help for me in the past, it just seems too powerful.

 

[pnp_dredd]

I don't move my settler unless there's a good reason. I'll send the scout onto the hill NW, and see if there's a good reason. I may build one more scout, it depends on what the first one finds in terms of landmass.

I might move settler 1 W anyway: you can still settle on the first turn, and rivers are almost always better than lakes. If you lose any resources, you'll grab them with your other cities anyway.

In a couple of practice games I found that it's very easy to do the CS slingshot. Switch to beurocracy/caste system and found some nice GP farms. Apart from a couple of high-food tiles, cottage spam the capital and be sure to build a library there. With GL/university that's a good chunk of reasearch.

I'll do something like worker/(scout)/barracks/settler/settler/settler... in the capital. (yes I take risks and use heavy farmer starts with 0 defence). Worker will build a couple of farms, then improve any resources, then move to chop a worker in the second city. I haven't done the maths, but chopping out a worker in each new city still seems right. The secret of the game is to work as many improved tiles as possible, and chopping workers gives you good pop growth, and earlier improved land. However, forests are also great for building wonders in low-production cities.

It's important to have lots of workers at Normal speed - they'll have plenty to do!

Second city will build Oracle, third city will likely be military city, building barracks/warriors.

Not sure about Keshiks, mainly because they don't get the 10% strength from militaristic - axemen/swords with the 10% are gonna be unstoppable. It will depend on the size/shape of the landmass.

I'll certainly be focussing on libraries and research early on. It's very unlikely that you'll get 64% of the land on one continent, so fast research will be a necessity.

 

[Sparts]

The fact that 3 days after the announcement of GOTM 4 you had 10 pages of discussion and now only 1.5, might be an indication that not everybody is a huge fan of the difficulty level. Or for that matter 17 pages of spoiler for GOTM4 and only 9 for GOTM5. Not meaning any disrespect, but perhaps two GOTM's a month might be a good idea. One for the new players and another for the people playing this game longer than 2 months? Just a suggestion....

 

[tharg]

How useful is the blud circle in determing the best starting square?

I have been kind of assuming that it gives you some information on hidden resources but I dont really know.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I've been doing some thinking about the opening moves. If everything nearby was devoid of resources, I'd rather settle on the plains/hill on turn 3 than anyplace I can on turn 1. While I lose 16-18 research, building a scout 1 turn earlier could pay for it as well as a quicker worker and settler after I reach size 2.

Turn1: Scout: N,W to see from the top of the plains hill; Settler: SW,NW to see more stuff (may even settler after SW if see good resources)
Turn2: Settler: N,NE to top of hill; Scout: TBD, but probably NW,NW as I generally like to move on diagonals if no other data; alternately could move SW,SW before moving the settler to check for resources before deciding what to do with the settler
Turn3: Settler makes capital, works grassland/trees for scout in 5 more turns
This also makes it 'easy' to build another city on the river at a distance of 4/5 from the capital if that is appropriate after some exploration.

Depending upon what I see, will probably build 2 total additional scouts and then start on a worker (after size 2). I want 'scouts out' to determine the map structure since it is unpredictable. I'd done quite a few fractal map creations and get all kind of interesting formations; even had a few that astronomy wasn't required for Conquest, so I'll want to determine that as quickly as possible.

Still debating whether to start Agriculture/Pottery or Animal Husbandry first. Most likely the first option as I'm generally confident my 3rd or 4th city could go where ever I find horses. Of course, BW is good to have; in general I think an early chop for 20 shields is better than a later chop for 30 shields.

 

[pnp_dredd]

I'm thinking maybe scout NE, NW to see what is to the E that would be missed from settling on the river. Then settler W, and only then make a decision.

 

[Tech Step]

I am surprised that people are whinging about the difficulty level. This is a game for players of all skill levels. If the "good" players dont think that they have something to learn from an easy game then they are kidding themselves.

a wise man still learns from a fool.

 

[toller pretzl]

I'm thinking maybe scout NE, NW to see what is to the E that would be missed from settling on the river. Then settler W, and only then make a decision.

You would get to see the square E,NE to the starting position of the settler. But isn't that a lake, and therefore not that interesting ?

 

[Amitabh]

I have done a few practice games, and the general feel is that, yes - fractal maps are indeed very unpredictable.

However, I did pull off a domination victory without leaving the starting continent, so it's definitely doable. Early scouting will be crucial.

I found keshiks a bit disappointing - especially after a prolonged war against Caesar's praetorians - which resulted in a massacre for my proud keshiks... :thumbdown They would be good for conquering the first 1-2 civs, but probably useless once the AI hooks up bronze/iron.

Probably I would aim for a domination, with an emphasis on early research, perhaps even a CS slingshot. If unsuccessful then I'd grab CoL as courthouses would be crucial in order to support the large empire needed for a domination victory.

I find city specialization useful (and fun!) hence I would pick one or two of the early cities as science cities/money cities - ideally lots of forests on grassland, with rivers and food bonuses nearby. And oh, floodplains Rest will focus on prodution, with enough farms to allow them to grow to max population, and a few cottages for unfarmed grassland.

Probably early research will be something like: BW-AH-Agri-Archery-HBR. Then either IW for swords or Machinery / CS slingshot for macemen to replace keshiks quickly when they "expire".

Early build order will be roughly: scout(s) (until size 2) - worker - settler (chopped) - warrior (for escort) - barracks. Worker will then follow settler/warrior to repeat the process in the next city.

After barracks another worker for farms, mines, cottages, then keshik-keshik-keshik etc. 3-4 early cities should be sufficient for conquering the nearby 1-2 civs.

I am inclined to raze as many cities as possible, then as the economy builds up and courthouses/marketplaces kicks in, keep more and more cities and found new ones as I aim for maximum growth and hence max score.

I guess one of the main things to decide would be: keshiks or not... Their use somewhat depends on
1) how quickly the AIs are conquered
2) how quickly they can be upgraded to knights

No use spawning out dozens of keshiks, only to disband them for macemen later. The speed of HBR-based units is of course beneficial, but what good will keshiks be when they have to be accompanied by catapults to remain useful...

Just some thoughts - will be interesting to see what the actual game brings when the save file is released.