GOTM 166 Spoiler

[Magic_gorter]

Part 1 - 4000bc - 2000bc

A bit strange to post my log after not playing such a long time (and even starting the thread). Because my time is still a bit limited I've played a conquest game.

-3950 Carthage.
-3950 -> Ceremonial Burial.
-3700 Ceremonial Burial->Alphabet.
-3400 hut->50g
-3300 Alphabet -> Map Making
-3200 hut->50g
-3150 Utica (2)
-2950 hut->horsemen.
-2900 Map Making->Code of Laws
-2650 Malaca (3)
-2550 hut->archers
-2500 Code of Laws->Monarchy
-2100 hut->horsemen
-2050 Monarchy->Bronze Working / MONARCHY

Status at -2000
Population: 0.09 M; Cities: 3; Techs: 5; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 24; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 settler, 1 warrior, 11 arher (none), 2 horseman (none)
no contact with other civ's

Other parts I will post next week.

 

[haleewud]

After completing a long Spaceship game in GOTM 165, I knew I was going to want something much quicker. So it was definitely going to be a conquest game.

Second hut being a Barb horse was pretty bad, but third hut of Ceremonial Burial (while I was researching it) was pretty good.

-4000 Move to River
-3950 Carthage founded at 51,17,1
-3900 start Alphabet
-3700 Alphabet -> Code of Laws (18), Warrior
-3550 RB 4sh(8)
-3450 Fish and Wheat found, Seed is 35
-3250 Col -> Bronze Working (24)
-3150 Hut -> 50
-3000 Settler

stats at -3000:
pop.: .01; cities: 1; techs: 2, gov: Despotism, gold: 69; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior
wonders: None

French: No Contact
Aztecs: No Contact
Carthaginians: No Contact
Sioux: No Contact


-2950 Hut -> 1 Barb Horse
-2900 Barb horse kills warrior (this is really going to slow down exploration), RB 7sh(16)
-2800 Utica founded (47,11,1)
-2700 BW -> Ceremonial Burial (36)
-2600 Utica warrior, Hut -> Ceremonial Burial, Utica Whale is revealed
-2550 start Monarchy (45)
-2400 Carthage Settlers, Hut -> Legion
-2300 RB Carthage 6sh(13)
-2250 Meet Sioux at (35,9), Peace, 50 Tribute
-2100 Malaca founded (53,27,1)
-2050 Monarchy -> Currency (66), REVOLUTION, Monarchy established, Hut -> Chariot (NON)
-2000 Now Supreme, Tech cost is 54

stats at -2000:
pop.: .07; cities: 3; techs: 5, gov: Monarchy, gold: 143; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Warrior, 1 Legion, 1 Chariot
wonders: None

French: No Contact
Aztecs: No Contact
Carthaginians: No Contact
Sioux: No Embassy

-1950 Utica Settlers
-1800 Carthage Setttlers, Hut -> Legion (NON)
-1700 Currency -> Trade (63), Caralis founded (43,9,1)
-1650 Sioux Pottery
-1450 Hut -> Writing (80)
-1400 Malaca Settlers
-1350 Utica Settlers, Trade -> Mysticism (99)
-1300 Meet French at (47,27,1), Peace, Trade Trade -> Map Making (120), Give Monarchy+Currency, exchange maps, 100 tribute, Panormus founded (40,18,1)
-1250 Sioux Sneak Attack, Sioux warrior dies, Carthage Settlers
-1200 100K, Sack Cedar Creek (city was just built, 14+Wheel), Sign CF and Peace with Sioux, Give MM+Writing+Monarchy, exchange maps
-1150 Leptis Parva founded (46,26,1), Hut -> Literacy (144)
-1100 Caralis Settler, Cartenna founded (45,17,1)
-1000 Barb uprising near Malaca

stats at -1000:
pop.: .11; cities: 7; techs: 11, gov: Monarchy, gold: 321; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Settlers, 6 Warrior, 2 Legion, 1 Chariot
wonders: None

French: No Embassy
Aztecs: No Contact
Carthaginians: No Contact
Sioux: No Embassy

 

[Inkerman]

Similar story to 2000BC here: 3 cities by then and Monarchy in -2050.

4000- Move to river, get extra trade, grass vs plain, and bring a possible special into radius.
3950- Found Carthage (51,17). Start on CB.
3750- Warrior uncovers possible special - it isn't grass, it is wheat, no help yet.
3700- disc CB -> Alp. Some black clicking - hut to NW seems best bet.
3400- Carthage = size 2. Hut: Masonry.
3200- Hut:50g.
3150- RB settler (22g).
3100- disc Alp -> CoL. Meet Sioux(4). Peace, no tech swap offer. We are Mighty.
3000- Hut:Nomads.

2950- Nomads found Utica (38,8). We are moderate.
2900- Found Malaca (47,11).
2850-
2800-
2750- We are Mighty.
2700-
2650-
2600- disc CoL -> Mon
2550- PRB 4 shields to 10pt in all cities (cost 8g ea.)
2500-

2450-
2400- Utica=size2.
2350- Malaca=size2.
2300-
2250-
2200- disc Mon -> MM.
2150- Malaca and Carthage build settlers. We are Supreme.
choice - Carthage settler - new city or mine hill - choose mine.
Find Wounded Knee.
2100- Revolution.
2050- Become Monarchy. RB settler Utica.
2000- Utica builds settlers. We are only Mighty again, after spending that money I suppose.
Warrior killed by Sioux archer.

Stats
Cities: 3, Pop:4, 58g, Monarchy, 5 techs. 3 settlers, 4 warriors.

 

[Major Advantage]

So we have all chosen the same site for our capital and discovered & became monarchy in -2050. My hut luck was pretty great (even though I lost my eploring warriors twice to barbs), got an advanced tribe from my first hut and later got two nomads far down south-west. Furthermore, the AI were excellent assistants in research, even without any embassy.

-4000 move north
-3950 found Karthago @ 51,17, start warrior for exploration
-3900 Research Alph
-3700 Alph->Laws, warrior uncovers wheat, not helping now; decide to build a 2nd warrior before settler
-3250 Laws->Writing; Advanced Tribe, Utica @ 52,28
-2850 Writing->Burial; Barb horse from hut
(Warrior lost, french horse shows up, give laws to icy french, no tech- exchange offer)
-2700 Malaca founded
-2500 Caralis founded
-2450 Burial->Mon
-2300 horse from hut
-2200 Archer from hut
-2150 25g from hut
-2050 Mon.(revolt & establish)-> Bronze; Hail french to tech-trade, they have HBR, poly, pottery, wc, wheel, we choose poly
-2000 Panormus founded

Stats at 2000 BC:
pop.: 110k; Cities: 5; techs: 6; gold: 54; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 0 settler, 3 warrior, 1 archer, 1 horse
Goals: Explore & Expand

-1950 Barb horse from hut
(Warrior lost)
-1850 HBR from hut
(Sioux approach us, give tech, peace, get Bronze from them (they also have myst.&Masonry)
-1800 Research Currency
-1750 Leptis Parva founded
-1700 Cartenna founded
-1600 Nomads
-1550 Curr.->Trade; we discover Wounded Knee
-1500 Rusicade founded @ 56,34, this might my SSC someday; Gades @ 29,29 founded from nomad
-1250 Rusucurru founded, making 1st city red
-1200 Discover Tenochtitlan, they offer mapmaking, not now since we don't want to delay trade, demand tribute, get 100g; get Wheel from hut
-1100 Trade->Myst.; hail Aztecs, get mapmaking (they also have Literacy, Republic, pottery); Girba founded; get myst. from Sioux (also have masonry, math), get 50g tribute
-1050 Research Liter. (only choice); Leptis Magna founded; get Litercy+pottery from Aztecs, exchange maps
-1000 Research Philo; Carthago Nova founded; Nomads again

Stats at 1000 BC:
pop.: 300k; Cities: 13; techs: 15; gold: 108; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 4 settler, 4 warrior, 1 archer, 1 horse, 1 phalanx
Goals: Explore & Expand; HG; embassies, Marco Polo probably not worth building, but maybe pyramids?

 

[Magic_gorter]

Part 2 - 2000 BC - 1AD

-1950 Caralis (4)
-1900 >100.000 citizens
-1800 hut->horseback riding
-1650 destroyed Lyons (36g + Currency)
-1500 Bronze Working->Writing
-1450 Panormus (5)
-1250 capture Orleans (6) [79g + Pottery]
-1200 Leptis Parva (7)
-1150 >200.000 citizens

Status at -1000
Population: 0.16 M; Cities: 7; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 209; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 2 settler, 1 warrior, 1 archer (none), 3 horseman
contact with French (cease fire, no embassy) and sioux (peace, no embassy)

-950 Writing->Trade / Cartenna (8)
-875 >300.000 citizens
-850 Rusicade (9)
-775 Gades (10)
-725 Trade->Polytheism
-700 hut->25g
-650 Rusucurru(11)
-575 >400.000 citizens / Paris destroyed / French civ destroyed
-525 Marco Polo build
-500 Polytheism->Mysticism
-350 Girba(12)
-300 Mysticism->Literacy / hut->50g / got Literacy, Masonry and Construction from Sioux
-275 start Philosophy / Leptis Magma (13)
-250 Carthago Nova (14)
-200 Oea (15)
-175 got Philosophy from Sioux / start learning Monotheism
-100 Rusaddit (16) + Tingis (17)
-50 Monotheism->Medicine
+1 Stony Lake captured (18) [23g + Mathematics]

Status at +1
Population: 0.51 M; Cities: 18; Techs: 19; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 124; Cost: 2; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 settler, 4 warrior, 1 phalanx, 1 archer (none), 3 horseman, 1 elephant, 2 crusaders, 1 diplomat
contact with Aztec (-, no embassy, 2 cities) and sioux (war, 6 cities)

 

[Inkerman]

2000 BC to 1000 BC

1950- Found Catharsis (4th) (39,5). Hut: Horse(NON). Discoverer is "nr Rheims".
Rehome Carthage warrior in Utica.
1900- Found Panormus (5th) (43,9).
1850- disc MM -> HBR.
Meet French(5), peace. Invite swap and agree to give Monarchy.
We choose HBR, rather than Writing, Mysticism, Wheel.
Start on Poly.
1800-
1750-
1700-
Barbs next to Malaca - defending warrior attacks archers in woods - lost.
1650- Carthage's mine completes.
We have located French Rheims. Malaca lost to barbs, with nearly complete settlers.
1600-
1550- Panormus horse destroy a barb archer nr Malaca.
Hut(46,26): AT Leptis Parva (6th).
Found Antenna (50,14) (7th).
Give Mon to Sioux.
1500- disc Poly -> BW
Sioux(4) contribute 100g. French(6) swap Writing for CoL. We are Mighty.

1450-
1400-
1350- We are Supreme.
1300- Bribe Malaca back from barbs for 52g. Found Rusicade (8th) nr Carthage.
1250- 75g from French. Swap Writing to Sioux(4) to get BW.
Sioux also have Pottery.
Start on Cur.
1200-
1150-
1100- 50g from Sioux. They want Poly.
Rheims is barb-owned.
1050- disc Cur -> Pot (Trade n/a).
1000-

Cities: 8, Pop:14, 170g, Monarchy, 11 techs.
Units: 2 settlers, 8 warriors, 2 archers, 2 horse, 1 ele, 2 trireme, 1 dip.

French: Unco-op, peace, ? cities, ? techs.
Aztecs: No contact, ? cities, ? techs.
Sioux: Neutral, peace, ? cities, ? techs.

 

[Inkerman]

1000 BC - 500 BC

975- Emissary Sioux(3), give Cur to get Pot.
950- Start on Trade. Civ disorder Carthage as it grows to 3 - oops.
925-
900- 200g from French.
875- Locate Teotihuacan, meeting Aztecs(4). Peace, give Pot, get 150g.
Have located Lyons.

850- Found Gades (35,9). Locate Tenochtitlan.
825- disc Trade -> Seafaring. Sci -> 30%. Found Rucurru (65,7), Girba (41,23).
800- Found Magna (47,15).
French start Pyramids.
775-
Sioux(4) approach and offer Maths for Trade, we accept.
750-
Hut: Barbs x8 (7 horse, 1 legion) - there goes the NON horse
Hut: Literacy.
Hut: Barbs x1 - that our exploring horse kills.

725- 50g from French(5). Sioux(4) withdraw. Give Trade to Aztecs(3).
Found Oea, Tingis.
700- Sioux ignore threats.
675-
650-
625- Bribe barb horse 41g. Hut:100g. Found Ruaddit. 25g from Aztecs.

600-
575- Carthage builds HG. 25g from Sioux.
French empire swept by Civil War triggered by fall of their capital. Enter the Chinese.
550-
French abandon Pyramids. Chinese start Pyramids.
525- 50g from Sioux.
500- disc Seafaring -> Construction. Hut(47,37): Nomads.
Give Trade, Literacy and Currency to French(2).

Cities: 16, Pop:30, 171g, Monarchy, 16 techs. HG.
Units: 6 settler, 10 warrior, 1 phalanx, 2 archers, 2 horse, 4 ele, 3 trireme, 2 dip, 3 vans.

Chinese: no contact, >=3 cities, ? techs.
French: Neutral, peace, ? cities, ? techs.
Aztecs: Enthusiastic, peace, >=2 cities, ? techs.
Sioux: Neutral, peace, ? cities, ? techs.

An additional AI because of the barbs capturing a capital is a rare event. Although it's possible other players will have this it seems unlikely. I'm not sure it's going to make things much different. It might make them a bit easier as two weaker opponents replace one stronger. Note that Magic_Gorter's log shows destruction of the French by this point of the game.

 

[Peaster]

Playing for EC, probably without much trade, with some caution, because the map is small and the barbs are raging. After black-clicking, it is still very unclear what the land masses will look like, and whether we will need any WoWs.

3950- Carthage(1) at <51,17>, @Alph, no size one trick today.
3700- Build a warrior to explore (I do not have any clear theory about exploring, but this warrior probably cost only 2-3 turns, so one decent hut makes him worthwhile).
3450- Alph-->CB. Taxes at 60 as usual.
3000- Utica(2). CB-->BW.
2900- Hut = 100g.
2700- Contact with French. They immediately declare war ! Not even a "Bon Jour" or a "Your Puny Civ....". We lose a warrior to their horseman.
2600- The horseman fails vs our settler on hills.
2450- Hut=AT=Malaca (3). This is pretty good hut luck, but the AT is nearer France than Carthage, and we get sucked into defending it for a long time. So this AT does not really promote growth much.
2400- BW-->CL. Minor defensive wins over French horsemen. We spot the Sioux and realize this map has just one major land mass.
2000- Caralis (4). Stats: 2S, 3w, 3adv, 6g, Despotism.
1900- Agree to cf with French. Pano..(5). Science to 60% for monarchy. CL-->Mon.
1800- Agree to peace with Sioux because Pano is exposed.
1650- Monarchy-->MM, with revolution. Taxes to 70%.
1550- Sioux defeat Aztecs, which respawn as Spanish. Hut=Cur.
1300- Hut=nomads.
1050- Survive a sneak attack by the French as the cf expires. MM-->Wri. I normally go for Trade asap, and that probably would've been better, even if we make normal embassies rather than MPE. We did not really need boats or diplomats yet, but HG becomes urgent fairly soon. We get Poly from the Sioux, and their map, which shows 6 purple cities, plus Madrid to the south. The Sioux are Supreme for quite a while yet.
1000- Stats: 9 cities, monarchy, 3S, 5w, 1ph, 8adv, 190K pop, 55g, war with F, peace with Si, no contact with Sp. No Wows. No clear conquest goals until we can outgrow the Sioux and get a better French map. No clear WoW goals either, but roughly plan on Trade/Pots/HG and wait-and-see about MPE/LH.
900- Sioux defeat Spanish. LOL; they are better conquerors than us! There is no sign on the Demo screen, etc, of a respawn [F3 is no help with this until Trade]. French start Pyrs. Huts give minor goodies [25g, ele, seaf....]. Getting some info on Paris+ Lyons.
775(approx)- Wri-->Trade, Sci=70, Sioux start HG.
725(approx)- Ele+warrior take Lyons, with Trade+36g. Accept cf with F for +150g. Dip makes embassy at W.Knee. Trade with Si for pots. tax=70 again. Start asking for tribute (from France first).
675- Pause to plan EC. Have 17 cities, 5 eles, no boats. Need a French map (or explorers/etc). Need HG badly, MPE later/maybe. Need access to LBH, the Sioux capitol, and going over the mts looks tough. hmmm.
650- F say "war", but they lose Paris to 2 ele's and a w, Mysticism.
625- Similar loss of Orleans. Surprisingly, that's the end of France, no need for their maps now. No respawn. Just us and the Sioux now.
550- HG in Cartenna. S switch to Pyrs. Lit-->Phil.

Stats at 500- 22C, 3S, 8w, 6ele[but all in/near France], 1tri, 1dip, 1exp. Monarchy, WoWs=HG, 27g, 15adv, 1bx. At peace with S. Goals: Attack the S capitol [LBH] from Sea #2. It seems to have only one defender, while Wounded Knee has many. To do this, we need a boat on Sea #2, which means we need a port city on #2. That won't be quick or easy. The alternative is to use Sea #5, but we are sadly unprepared for that, and #5 does not bring us very close to the main goal, LBH.
If interested, I can probably post a screen shot of this puzzle-like situation.

375- Two devious Carth settlers push thru swarms of S units to #2 (with some help from a warrior, an explorer and the "withdraw your troops" trick). They make the needed ports, including a canal into #2 from #3. All this with no help from any real Carth military units, which are travelling from France or are being trained in fairly new cities.
350- S build Pyrs at Tenoc. A Carth trireme bearing ele's, heading East from Paris, survives one turn of deep water, trying to help the EC "from the other side".
325- Sioux have given approx 200g in tribute, but finally declare war. We bribe Slim Buttes for 77g, the brave trireme finds land near Tenoc, an explorer sneaks past WKnee+LBH, we win a minor skirmish.
300- Phil-->Mono-->Repu (but this is meaningless). We lose a skirmish, and in 275 we lose Slim Buttes (razed by S ele from Madrid).
250- We take LBH with 3 ele's from Sea #2 triremes and the explorer. The flotilla from Paris attacks Tlat, but this mostly fails [our vet ellie loses to an Archer on grass!?].

This is a good place to stop. The S still have approx 6 cities, mostly coastal, sizes 2 to 5. We have boats and units [mostly dips] approaching. Though their capitol is taken, the Sioux still have approx 500g, which means bribes are costly. We are hoping for 6 routine victories and a BC EC. But we are not well-prepared for purple respawns, if any.

Scanning this thread, it looks like Major Advantage has a major advantage as of 1000BC, if he is going for Green or Gold, with 13 cities, good techs, etc.

Welcome back Magic ! It feels odd to say this to you, since I have also been away a lot, maybe more than you. But anyway, it is good to see you playing again.

 

[Inkerman]

Taking my log to 250BC as well. Somewhat behind.

475- Meet Chinese(5). Get 50g for peace.
450- Found Alalia, Selinus.
425- Found Himera. Exploring warrior moves next to barb-held Paris.
400- Found Akragas. Establish embassy with Chinese(5), who have 4 cities and 13 techs.
Give them Trade and BW to get their map (they want Lit.)
Give Mon to Aztecs(3) to get their map.

We refuse to withdraw from near Orleans so French declare war.
375- Carthage completes Pyramids. Found Theveste.
350- Establish embassy with Sioux, who have 3 cities.
We are warned from Little Bighorn. Chinese expel dip.
325- Capture Orleans from French, taking Mysticism. French out.
300-

275- 25g from Chinese(5). 50g from Aztecs(3). 25g from Sioux(4).
Found Saguntum.
250- Rushed dip from Orleans bribes barb Paris for 208g. Size 3, 3 archers.
Good location to own but money a bit tight now.

I don't have a save from this turn, so don't have exact figures, but in any case it is clear this is a bit behind Peaster's game. Maybe 10 turns or so. Compared to the Peaster 500BC position I still have three opponents with roughly 10 cities between them versus one with six.

I am also planning how to attack and have in mind that I probably have enough strength to attack in all directions at the same time. The French in other games are now the Chinese in mine, and I have several cities well placed round them, including Paris and Orleans. Regarding taking Little Bighorn, my Sioux are not so strong. I had enough ele's in the river valley cities on that frontier to give it a go. I did consider using the small sea 2 but like Peaster hadn't already got the port there so thought I might as well go via Wounded Knee (at 29,9 in my game.) That attack could be supported by one boat on sea 5.

I will be including use of small seas (15 and 16) in the attacks on the French.

I also planned building LH to attack the Aztec lands from the west, covering land 5 too, across sea 1. Yes it would have been quicker to build it before Pyramids.

About the one thing that can be said for this plan is it stands a chance of covering re-spawns reasonably well. Not having MPE I did not know if the French had re-spawned when I put them out in 300BC; in fact they haven't which I might have thought a bit disappointing had I known, given I was evidently planning for re-spawns. They often, it seems to me from admittedly no real data, to either tend to happen or tend not to happen in a particular game. Maybe this will be a game without?

 

[Peaster]

Regarding taking Little Bighorn, my Sioux are not so strong. I had enough ele's in the river valley cities on that frontier to give it a go. I did consider using the small sea 2 but like Peaster hadn't already got the port there so thought I might as well go via Wounded Knee (at 29,9 in my game.) That attack could be supported by one boat on sea 5.

Yes, sea #5 seems like the logical route to LBH if you don't expect much resistance in the mts. In my game, W.Knee was in the way, and that area seemed to be swarming with units.

I also planned building LH to attack the Aztec lands from the west, covering land 5 too, across sea 1. Yes it would have been quicker to build it before Pyramids.

LH is a pretty tough decision here, if going for green. It will probably cost you 2-3 turns, but it has the advantages you mention, lessening risks. I got one boat across the presumably-wide eastern sea without LH, carrying 2 elephants, which helped slightly against a Sioux/Aztec city near land 5. But this was mainly an attempt to re-use some spare units with no remaining purpose.

About the one thing that can be said for this plan is it stands a chance of covering re-spawns reasonably well. Not having MPE I did not know if the French had re-spawned when I put them out in 300BC; in fact they haven't which I might have thought a bit disappointing had I known, given I was evidently planning for re-spawns. They often, it seems to me from admittedly no real data, to either tend to happen or tend not to happen in a particular game. Maybe this will be a game without?

This echoes a comment I made in 165, that you often either get many respawns [like 15 or more] or very few, with "medium" being fairly rare. People have run various respawn tests, but I don't think anyone has studied this question carefully. I did a few quick tests some years ago that seemed to weakly confirm this idea, but I wasn't very careful.

I did not know if the French ....

I am a bit rusty, but don't all the AI civs appear on your F3 screen after researching Trade ? I don't think you need MPE ... at least that was my assumption during this gotm.

 

[haleewud]

I did not know if the French ....

I am a bit rusty, but don't all the AI civs appear on your F3 screen after researching Trade ? I don't think you need MPE ... at least that was my assumption during this gotm.

Without MPE, I believe they only show up if you have made contact with them. So, a new respawn would probably not show up.

 

[Inkerman]

This echoes a comment I made in 165, that you often either get many respawns [like 15 or more] or very few, with "medium" being fairly rare.

Yes sorry, I knew my thought was not original but had forgotten it had been expressed so recently in this forum. Of course I had read it there.

Regarding knowing about re-spawns, I'm in the same position as haleewud. If there is a way I don't know it. In my games the new civ shows on the F3 list only once you have had adjacent units.

I have had long chase arounds because of this. Because the settlers can appear in previously explored areas it is not so easy with casual play like I tend to use, to know where you've looked and not looked, and I've almost been tempted to give up in despair. A recent example was GotM155, the no wonders game. (I thought that worked well as a condition, and we could perhaps play again some time with only a limited number of wonders allowed.) In 155 I decided to stop worrying and just play on for growth for a time, and eventually I happened across a foreign city in a low growth inland area quite near some of my own cities.

Mind I am aware there have always been new things to appreciate. For example your comment

It seems to have only one defender.

Pray what clues that?

 

[Peaster]

OK, I must be wrong about f3. I almost always build MPE soon after Trade, and before the conquests, so this has never been an issue for me. Now I am wondering - how do people without MPE, and restarts on, know when they have conquered the last civ?

@Inkerman: Someone posted a trick for this recently (eg 1-2 years ago, too late for the EC guide, or the "Tips and Tricks" thread etc):

1) Right-click on an AI city. An icon for one of its defenders should appear in your status window (for me, this is on the right-hand side of my screen, where my active units are usually displayed).

2) Shrink the status screen by using your mouse to drag the lower edge upwards. Stop as soon as the defender icon vanishes. It should be replaced by a message such as "2 other units" (which actually means a total of two units are in the city).

For me, step 1 works maybe 30% to 40% of the time - sometimes I do not get any icon, and trying over again does not help. This problem was not mentioned in the thread, except by me, so I don't know exactly when it succeeds. It is still a useful trick when considering a risky attack with just a few attacking units nearby.

IIRC you can do a similar trick with any stack of AI units, but you do not have to shrink the status window unless they are in a city.

 

[Major Advantage]

OK, I must be wrong about f3. I almost always build MPE soon after Trade, and before the conquests, so this has never been an issue for me. Now I am wondering - how do people without MPE, and restarts on, know when they have conquered the last civ?

At the end of the turn. Either you get a message saying you have conquered the world or you don't. There was GOTM (we were Mongols on a small map), where there were no respawns when I took out the first 3 or 4 AIs, but there was when I finished the last one! At that time, I had lost a city to barbs, maybe that triggered another respawn.

@Inkerman: Someone posted a trick for this recently (eg 1-2 years ago, too late for the EC guide, or the "Tips and Tricks" thread etc):

1) Right-click on an AI city. An icon for one of its defenders should appear in your status window (for me, this is on the right-hand side of my screen, where my active units are usually displayed).

2) Shrink the status screen by using your mouse to drag the lower edge upwards. Stop as soon as the defender icon vanishes. It should be replaced by a message such as "2 other units" (which actually means a total of two units are in the city).

For me, step 1 works maybe 30% to 40% of the time - sometimes I do not get any icon, and trying over again does not help. This problem was not mentioned in the thread, except by me, so I don't know exactly when it succeeds. It is still a useful trick when considering a risky attack with just a few attacking units nearby.

IIRC you can do a similar trick with any stack of AI units, but you do not have to shrink the status window unless they are in a city.

Wow, I have not learned anything new about this game for a year or so, thank you very much! I only knew about the flag (no flag = no defender) and did the right-click-on-city to see who was defending, which often does not work.

 

[Inkerman]

Thanks Peaster. I too can only get a defender shown in some of the cities.

A lumberjack new to the job had trouble meeting his quota. He worked as hard as he could, but still he could only chop down two or three trees in a day. His supervisor noticed this, and asked what was wrong. Maybe his chainsaw was broken. The supervisor turned it on, but it was working fine.

The lumberjack looked incredibly startled and asked, "What's that noise?"

(at http://www.funnypart.com/funny/the-new-lumberjack.shtml and many others)

 

[Major Advantage]

My next 1000 years, during which we expanded nicely, though not everything went as hoped.

-950 Oea founded
(French ellie on patrol but does not contact)
-900 Tingis founded;
(pre-800 Barb Archer disembarks near Tingis, very brave Aztec warrior attacks and dies, but barb is almost dead)
-800 Philo->Seafar.->Mono; HG built; kill Barb Archer (We should take the Aztecs to dinner for their sacrifice); Rusaddit, Alalia founded
-725 Selinus, Himera founded
-700 Dip evicted from France who was going to establish an embassy
(Sioux steal currency...well, if it makes them happy, they could just have asked and would not have wasted a dip)
-650 gift some techs to France to get their map (+25g tribute) and there is no Paris! Orlean is their only city, but they seem about to build another. Could take them out and hope for a respawn on island 5...
-600 Embassy with Sioux, exchange maps with them; Akragas founded
-575 Mono->Medicine; Theveste founded
-550 50g from hut on island 5; demand Sioux tribute, they withdraw and give no money
-525 Two Barb archers near Karthago, this is not good
-500 Saguntum founded

Stats at 500 BC:
pop.: 830k; Cities: 22; techs: 18; gold: 64; Gov.: Mon; wonders: HG; TR: 0D/0F
units: 2 settler, 14 warrior, 1 archer, 1 horse, 4 phalanx, 2 crusaders, 2 boat, 1 dip, 6 vans
Goals: Expand some more; build Michelangelo, set up road network; try for some trade; take out French (they have founded another city, we have 1 dip + 3 crusaders ready next turn)

-475 Neapel founded
(1st Archer attacks Karthago's phalanx, not a scratch, other is heading south for Utica, defended by warrior, better have a dip there)
-450 Orlean is revolting, bribe is 140, we only have 109, tax to 70% would give us 46
-425 None-crusader on island 5; Orlean is out of revolt, cost 280, too much! Head for there new founded city of Lyons, bribe for 56g, war! We get 10g and WC, Kill Orlean defender, take the city for 36g, French destroyed. Two units on island 5 will search for respawns. Set Karthago into celebration mode
(Barb Archer kills warrior in Utica)
-400 Barb archer bribed for 61g; get Math, Astro, Masonry from Sioux, 1st delivery for 84g, Michelangelo is scheduled in 4 turns in Malaca
-350 get Medicine + 150g from Sioux
-325 get republic (Banking available) + 150g from Aztecs
-275 Micheangelo completed; Two barb archers killed with horse; obviously no respawn on island 5
-250 Time for a break. Is it time for republic already? Go for space game and settle island 5 ourself for offshore trade or go for conquest?
...Ok, we will stay in monarchy a little longer, build pyramids in 2 turns, continue expansion
-225 Uni->IW; Issus, Cunaxa founded
-200 Cremona founded; embassy with Aztecs
-175 Pyramids built
-150 Colossus built; Cannae, Capua founded; REVOLUTION
-125 Become Republic
-25 IW->Chem.; 1st SSC-delivery for 90
(Barb archers disembark next to Tingis and on island 5)
+1 Turin, Genua founded; delivery for 80g; kill barb archer, bribe other archer for 61g (disbanded into harbor), bribe trireme for 82

Stats at 1 AD:
pop.: 1.4M; Cities: 32; techs: 26; gold: 59; Gov.: Rep; wonders: HG, Pyr, Colossus, Michelangelo; TR: 0D/3F
units: 15 settler, 14 warrior, 2 archer, 1 horse, 5 phalanx, 3 crusaders, 3 boat, 4 dip, 4 vans
Goals: Expand some more, not really decided about the long-term direction
Aztecs: 2 cities
Sioux: 4 cities

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I just started playing this one. Like everyone else I built Carthage at 51,17. My first hut gave me pottery which delayed Monarchy. So unlike most others who achieved Monarchy at -2050, mine took till -1850. My hut luck turned to excellent after the first hut. I got an advanced tribe from the second hut and a nomad from the third!

The location of these 2 huts (both to my west) skewed my expansion to the west rather than south. To make matters worse French showed up near Carthage early on. In -2400 the game could have been over when a French horseman walk by my undefended capital but did not take it. Production was immediately switched to an archer from settler and the horseman killed. For a quite long time, I had that archer fortified on hills just south of capital to contain French.

While early hut luck put me on a super growth trajectory, unneeded early warfare and Feudalism from a hut in -1400 slowed me down. In -1200 Sioux put a settler next to undefended Rusucurru which was at a spot near the juncture of lakes 2 and 5 which I later found out is pretty close to their capital. They demanded trade when I try to talk to them and declared war when I refuse. Sioux raze Rusucurru and take Feudalism the next turn. They razed yet another city later on.

My original tentative intent was to play a landing game. But the game was quickly descending into a war game. Not sure what to do, I kept expanding and exploring. Gave the gardens priority over Marco since my expansion was so fast. By the time I was ready to build Marco I knew of most rival cities but decided to do it anyway.

After building Marco, and exchanging maps with everyone (I had only Aztec map by then), I have decided to go for a conquest. Geography was one main reason as there are very few islands.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Date Notes

-4000 Tentative strategy is early landing. Settler moved to river.
-3950 Carthage founded one tile NE of starting position on river.
-3900 -> Alphabet. Rivals are French, Aztec, and Sioux.
-3700 Alphabet -> Code of Laws. Warrior produced. Settler started. Wheat revealed.
-3400 Pottery from the first hut!
-3200 Advanced tribe founds Utica at 41,9.
-3100 Code of Laws -> Bronze.
-3000 Nomad from hilltop hut. Unbelievable!

Status at -3000
Population: 0.02M; Cities: 2; Techs: 3; Government: Despotism
Gold: 10; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 2 settlers (1 None), 1 warrior
Goals: Expansion, Monarchy
French: no contact
Aztec: no contact
Sioux: no contact

-2950 Nomad founds Malaca on hilltop.
-2800 Caralis founded.
-2750 Warrior meets French horseman on the hills near capital. They demand alphabet and I comply. Then they demand Code of Laws. I refuse and they declare war.
-2700 Warrior survives French horseman.
-2650 Bronze -> Burial.
-2550 Warrior Code from hut.
-2400 French horseman walks by Carthage but does not attempt to take it. Freshly produced archer kills it. 25g from hut.
-2350 Warrior on hilltop survives French warrior.
-2300 Panormus founded.
-2200 Burial -> Monarchy.
-2100 Warrior survives French warrior; 3 defensive victories and still not vet.
-2050 Leptis Parva founded.
-2000 Cartenna founded.

Status at -2000
Population: 0.12M; Cities: 7; Techs: 6; Government: Despotism
Gold: 7; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 warriors, 1 archer
Goals: Expansion, Monarchy, finding and containing French
French: no embassy; war with me
Aztec: no contact
Sioux: no contact

-1850 Monarchy -> Currency. Monarchy established. T3L0S7
-1800 Rusicade founded.
-1700 French elephant spotted near capital. Gades founded.
-1650 Code of Laws and Monarchy to French to save Carthage.
-1600 Currency -> Mapmaking.
-1400 Warrior Code -> Sioux -> Mapmaking. -> Trade. Feudalism from hut. This is awful.
-1300 Trade -> Writing. T7L0S3. First Trireme produced. Rusucurru founded.
-1200 Sioux put a settler next to undefended Rusucurru. They demand trade when I try to talk to them and declare war when I refuse. This is quickly descending into a war game.
-1150 Sioux raze Rusucurru and take Feudalism. Sioux offer peace and I reject. Girba founded.
-1050 Leptis Magna and Carthago Nova founded.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.22M; Cities: 12; Techs: 11; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 28; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 settlers, 3 warriors, 2 archers, 1 pikemen, 2 Trireme
Goals: Expansion, containing Sioux, finding and containing French, Hanging Gardens, Marco
French: no embassy; cease fire
Aztec: no contact
Sioux: no embassy; war with me

-0975 French elephant near Girba.
-0950 French elephant disappears. Oea and Tingis founded.
-0925 French offer peace and I accept.
-0850 Pikeman survives Sioux horseman. Lost archer attacking Sioux settler. Empty boat discovers Aztecs. Looks like everyone is on continent 1.
-0825 Writing -> Mysticism. Currency, Trade -> French (4) -> Seafaring, Polytheism.
-0800 Sioux army of an archer and a horseman are approaching. Rusaddit founded.
-0775 Sioux kill my wounded pikeman.
-0750 Elephant kills pestering Sioux settler.
-0700 Sioux horseman reaches undefended Tingis. Hanging Gardens built. Alalia founded.
-0675 Sioux raze Tingis and take Seafaring. Accepted Sioux offer of 200g for cease fire and another 100g for peace. Elephant from hut.
-0625 Selinus founded. Advanced tribe founds Himera.
-0600 Ran into Aztecs. Trade -> Aztec (3) to see what they have and they only have Masonry. What a disappointment. Monarchy, Seafaring -> Aztec -> peace, maps, 100g. Two of their cities have been taken over by Sioux.
-0525 Tingis refounded. Warrior Code -> French (5) -> Literacy. Literacy, Trade -> Sioux (4) -> Mysticism, Construction. Aztec -> 0g.
-0500 -> Philosophy. T3L0S7

Status at -0500
Population: 0.6M; Cities: 18; Techs: 18; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 206; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Hanging Gardens
Units: 6 settlers, 3 warriors, 2 archers, 9 pikemen, 2 elephant, 2 Trireme, 1 diplomat, 4 vans, 1 explorer
Notes: Already know the locations of 2 French, 1 Aztec, and 3 Sioux cities.
Goals: Expansion, containing Sioux and French, Philosophy, Marco
French: no embassy
Aztec: no embassy
Sioux: no embassy

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Wow, I have not learned anything new about this game for a year or so, thank you very much! I only knew about the flag (no flag = no defender) and did the right-click-on-city to see who was defending, which often does not work.

My sentiment exactly. I too did not know this trick. Thanks Peaster. It is amazing we are still learning new things about this marvelous game.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

This past weekend was marathon GOTM playing for me. Got 166 done a few days after starting it which is highly unusual for me.

Like others I got no respawns. This makes me wonder if restarts were off to begin with? There is no way to check that after the fact. I suppose those who know how to hex edit can decipher it but is there any other way to do it?

Even if there were to be restarts, they would be easy to deal with as island 5 was about the only place they would end up. There were no other big islands and most everywhere else was settled.

I built Marco in -425 and decided to go for conquest. I chose Aztecs as my first victim for two reasons. Main reason was that their capital was a canal city giving easy access to island 5 which would have been the respawn location. The other was that they were very weak having lost two cities to Sioux. Once I realized they had no defensive military techs (bronze, feudalism, warrior code) I decided to attack them with elephants. I razed a freshly built city but the capital had city walls and their vet warriors defeated my elephants. I had to retreat and go back with crusaders later on.

French were my next target because they had less money (hence cheaper bribes), did not have feudalism (Sioux got it from me when they razed a city of mine), were not my key civ, and as an aggressive civ they were easier to provoke.

With a bit of help from the senate I managed to conquer the Aztec and French but the Sioux were just too friendly and refused to declare war on me so I eventually had to revolt and bring down my republic to attack them. Of course, I timed it so that the anarchy would not last more than a turn.