GOTM 17 First Spoiler

Nice work, Thrallia.

Hmm, most people are in a similar position at this point in the game. I think Archipelago reduces the number of early game options so people are closer together at this point (with just about everyone having to deal with gold-digging Hatsepshut). My main problem comes with what happens next. It is usually about the Liberalism stage of the game that one or two civs take off and I struggle to catch them. This will almost certainly happen in this game too. Glad to see that I was not the only person who missed out on Great Library too.


I am still not sure I want Hatty out of my Game. I am only about 25 points behind her and well ahead of most others. I know that I will go to war with her soon just to reclaim some of the Greek Islands,:D

By the way are you using the Philosophical trait to generate GP's? Your write up tells me no. It is still not too late. I used GP's, including prophets to learn a tech only one other have and trade it to the rest to catch up. And do not give up on Liberalism, I actually may miss it in this game because I chose to aim for Mil Trade and completed Nationalism first but Hatty do not have one of the prereqs in my game and do not know Education and I started it already. I will land a few units on her mainland if she learn Ed before me to cause some trouble. She is using the two early religions she founded to make money, and she is doing it very well I would say.
 
I tried to use the Philo trait, but somehow I think I ended up with only about 6 or 7 Great People the entire game...probably partly due to the lack of a good GP farm, and the fact that the only wonder I attempted that I was able to build was Stonehenge...I greatly mourned my loss of the Library(pre-100AD!!, I think) Perhaps I shouldn't have traded Alpha away so liberally...it would have easily netted me 4 or 5 Scientists, easy.

Another thing I forgot to mention though, I didn't do hardly any tech trading at first...I wasn't interested in getting any WFYABTA as I got in my last diplo victory attempt, so I went and manually researched all the early techs I skipped myself so that they wouldn't count against me later when I really needed to get something like Nationalism or Democracy.
 
Yes, like Thrallia, I aimed to go for lots of Great People but it didn't really work out due to lack of classic GP farm and losing the race to key wonders. I've sort of buggered it all up really, because I don't have enough cottages AND I'm not getting lots of GPs. In fact, my only GPs are coming from Athens, and they are all Prophets. I should have researched meditation earlier so that my GPs would have slinged me Theology first, but I had too much of a muddled tech path to get that to work.
 
unfortunately, island game is not my specialty. Heck I cant even swim in real life...:sad:

Beginning:
I settle on the spot. Worker->Warrior->Settler. Found Sparta next to the sheep and fish SW. Research Sailing much earlier and explore SW. Luckily for me, I quickly find the gem and gold island:) . That is my 4th city, my 3rd is the island w/ bronze.

Right after settle on the gold, I meet Egypt. Suprisingly, she already has Alphabet. I wont be able to get that tech for another 30 turns. Meet the rest leaders. Only Cyrus has the most land, Isabella is dangererous behind in tech. For some reason, almost every1 is different religion with each other, Cyrus-Isabella-Juilus manage to still be please at each other while suffering -4 on religious penalty. Are they that peaceful in Vanilla?, cuz I only play on Warlord.

Right now I am on par with the tech leaders, and a relatively weak army. Island games just much less dynamic cuz no war takes place in the beginning. I have 9 cities so far, and feeling the weight of overexpansion. (-20 gold/turn)

This game can drag very long I suppose................. :(
 
...I greatly mourned my loss of the Library(pre-100AD!!, I think) Perhaps I shouldn't have traded Alpha away so liberally...it would have easily netted me 4 or 5 Scientists, easy...

Looking back, I think I contributed to my own loss of the Gt Lib in horrible fashion.
  • Learned Alphabet turn 140(400BC) and traded it to Saladin the same turn.
  • Learned Literature turn 152(220BC).
  • Waited to finish a settler in Athens before starting Gt Lib turn 157(145BC).
  • Saladin built the Gt Lib turn 177(155AD). I was still 7 turns off.
If I'd thought the race would be that close, then I could have delayed a few turns before trading Alphabet away. Then I could have rushed or delayed the settler.
:cry:
 
...I've met everyone else and am clearly first in score and tech. Am still slowly colonising good-looking islands, and planning on wiping everyone out in the cavalry/galleon/frigate age.

I'm with Harbourboy on this one. Please tell us more about your game? From your write-up so far, it sounds so easy to be clear in first place. From most of the guys here experiences, and mine, it wasn't.
So how did you do it? :goodjob:
 
Better report, although I'm a bit :blush:

I wasn't really going to play this when I dl'ed it at 1:30 AM.
With hindsight, I shouldn't have...
I messed up my game plan so bad I was :sad: --- :lol:

I settled S S after scouting that way. This worked out ok, and would have been smart for a long game cause I could fit 4 good cities on the home island.
Plan was to sling to MC with the Oracle and get the Colossus to keep up with research.

However, I needed AH for the sheep and then I muddled up my research and got both Pots and BW way too late for any hope of finishing the Oracle in time. I still tried though (which, of course, also was a mistake) and was only 2 turns off when another civ finished it. So then I went for MC the hard way and lost out on the Colossus with 2 turns left to go?

What is it with me and these island maps? :lol:

I went back and replayed. Still settled south, but changed tech order and builds. I managed to beat my previous Oracle date with over 200 years (pre 1050 instead of around 850). Getting the Colossus was a laugh after that (with Bronze hooked up around 900 BC (I researched Sailing only after BW, which was my last tech before the sling)).
It was just a test so I quit around 600 BC having met everyone except Saladin, but I was firmly in the lead by then. On my first attempt I was a lowly 5th :(
 
...got both Pots and BW way too late for any hope of finishing the Oracle in time. I still tried though (which, of course, also was a mistake) and was only 2 turns off when another civ finished it. So then I went for MC the hard way and lost out on the Colossus with 2 turns left to go?...

AArgh! Missing two wonders with only 2 turns to go on each!!
"Hold tight Mr Buttkick, the paramedics will be with you soon"

Commiserations.
 
State of the Greek Empire as of 485 A.D. Alexander leads the world in score, holding a slim lead over Cyrus. The other AI, except for Isabella, are not far behind.

After moving the scout and seeing the corn to the west, I decided to settle in place. That turned out to be a good decision as the mine on the plains hill discovered copper around 1000 B.C. and the mine on the hill 2N sprouted gold in 10 B.C.

Cities: As of 485 A.D., I have five cities.

Athens, capital. Initial build order: worker, warrior, scout, galley, scout, settler, work boat, galley

I’ve also used Athens to build wonders. So far I’ve built:

Stonehenge (1300 B.C.)
Oracle (610 B.C.)
Pyramids (125A.D.)
Great Library (320 A.D.)

The Colossus is scheduled to be completed in 5 turns.

A Great Prophet was born in 610 B.C.,, another in 25 B.C. and a third in 410 A.D.

Sparta, was founded on the SW part of the starting island in 1810 B.C. It has largely been dedicated to producing units.

Thermopylae was founded by the gold and gems on the island to the SW in 865 B.C. The settler used was originally planned to found a city by the copper on the island to the east, but the discovery of copper near Athens allowed me to divert that settler to a more financially lucrative location. Thermopylae is slated to be my financial city. Research of Code of Law founded Confucianism here in 625 B.C. A Great Prophet was used to build the Kong Mio in 35 A.D.

Corinth (355 B.C.) was founded by the wheat on the island to the NW. Corinth is slated to become my GP farm with the wheat, clam and plenty of grasslands to irrigate. Christianity was founded here and the Church of the Nativity was built in 455 A.D.

Delphi (380 A.D.) was founded by the sugar and elephants to the NW. I wanted to beat the AIs to the location to get the additional happiness bonus as well as having additional resources to trade.

I plan on founding a sixth city in the near future on the pig iron island.

Exploration: An early goal was exploration. Sailing was the fourth tech researched (2590 B.C.). Two galleys with scouts were sent out, one east and one west. They met in 805 B.C. near Rome to circumnavigate the globe and obtain the +1 movement bonus.

They also have now found the 5 AIs, meeting:

Saladin (1960 B.C.)
Hatty (1810 B.C.)
Cyrus (1150 B.C.)
Julius Caesar (865 B.C.)
Isabella (715 B.C.)

Another goal was to pop goody huts. So far, the two original galleys/scouts plus a third set sent out later have popped 11 huts, gaining:

Monarchy
Archery
Pottery
Three warriors
Gold (2 pops)
Two maps
Experience

Tech: Research path as follows, aiming (successfully) for a CS slingshot:

Agriculture (3640 B.C.)
Mining (3340 B.C.)
Mysticism (3040 B.C.)
Sailing (2590 B.C.)
Polytheism (2140 B.C.)
Bronze working (1630 B.C.)
Priesthood (1430 B.C.)
Monarchy (1270 B.C.) (hut pop)
Writing (1060 B.C.)
Archery (955 B.C.) (hut pop)
Code of Laws (625 B.C.)
Civil Service (595 B.C.) (with Oracle)
Alphabet (370 B.C.)
Wheel, Masonry, Animal Husbandry (355 B.C.) (trade)
Iron Working (355 B.C.) (trade)
Pottery (325 B.C.) (hut pop)
Meditation, Monotheism (295 B.C.) (trade)
Theology (295 B.C.) (Great Prophet lightbulb)
Literature (175 B.C.)
Metal Casting (50 A.D.)
Mathematics (65 A.D.) (trade)
Paper (290 A.D.)
Currency (380 A.D.)

Cyrus and I are fairly even in tech research. I’m ahead of the others.

Religion: So far, I haven’t adopted a religion so as to not antagonize any AIs. Hinduism spread to Sparta in 1240 B.C. Confucianism was founded in 625 B.C. in Thermopylae and Christianity was founded in 295 B.C. in Corinth.

Diplomatic: Many of the AIs have not met each other. That has kept the AI tech pace down as they are largely unable to trade with each other. I am pleased or cautious with everyone, except Hatty. A near term goal is to continue to hook up several resources that are available so that they can be gifted or traded to increase the “Our trade relations have been fair and forthright” modifier.

War with Hatty: Hatty unexpectedly declared war in 70 B.C., with a “pleased” attitude, probably because she was mad that I beat her to the gold/gems location. Her initial attack force consisted of one empty galley, which was promptly sunk by the defending Greek galley. The only other Egyptian force to enter my borders has been a galley with an archer and a settler. Since she wanted a tech for peace, I sent one galley with an ax and a phalanx in 170 A.D. to pillage and convince her that I wasn’t going to give in to extortion. They have done an excellent job of pillaging and haven’t been attacked. Hatty has mostly archers. I could get peace with her now, with her paying a small amount of gold, but am considering sending more troops to take out a city or two for the gold.

Future course: Before starting the game, my goal was to play for either a diplomatic or a space race victory. Accordingly, I’ve emphasized research. Once the AIs meet each other, I expect the tech pace will pick up.
 
We do all seem to be playing fairly close variants of the same game. More so than in the average GOTM, anyway.
Although I do notice that dr_s has been more of a globetrotter than the average - getting his circumnav by 10BC and settling each of the surrounding islands unopposed! :goodjob:
Hmmm, I don't often write up my games because I don't think they are ever as interesting as others', but maybe I will this time. It seems I must have done things different than most. Don't have a blow-by-blow account, but I founded in place (when I realized I could get 3 bread + 1 coin from working the unimproved rice if I didn't move, getting my firs worker 5 turns earlier AND speeding my research), I built a worker first. Perhaps nothing much different than other at this point, but by the time the worker was done the scout had revealed the whole Island and already parked himself on the jungled hill in the south to almost completely fogbust the island, I decided I did not need a warrior and, figuring the map was lots of little islands (didn't realize at the time that there were bigger ones, it's just that Alex apparently drew short straw here), I dove right into cranking out two fishing boats as my second & 3rd builds, and sent one in each direction. I quickly got most of the way around, it took me a while to find a coastal bridge to make the jump of the last 5 squares or so (sigh) but I eventually got it -- for some reason my autolog does not record when, but I'm pretty sure it was way, way before 10BC.

Because of all this exploration (which only accelerated once I got the +1 MP for circumnavigation) I believe I had already discovered EVERYONE else before most of them had discovered ANYONE else (even now in my game, well past 1000 AD, there are AI civs that have still not made contact). It also made me find & realize the importance of the gem+gold site site and grabbed it early, before anyone else (although Hap did colonize the west coast of it shortly after I built on the super city site on the east side, now we share it). I moved very quickly to neighboring islands, in fact I only founded one other city on the home island. Although I also thought the iron/pig island to the east of Athens important, I dallied there and lost it to Sal (I even founded a city way over on his island first, where all the sugar is). I still have no iron source, well after 500ad (gonna remedy that shortly I think though, there is still an unclaimed iron resource or not not too far off -- don't want to reveal where because less dedicated explorers may not have found it). My research effort was pretty different too I suspect, for example I got alphabet in 775 BC, but did not get Mysticism until 175 BC!). With aid of alphabet, by the early AD years I recall I'd pulled into what appears to be a permanent tech lead (though it's a bit after after 500ad time frame of this writeup, I had 5 universities built before anyone else even had paper). As someone else pointed out, getting Great Lighthouse really supercharged my commerce (and thus my research). I also got Colossus, I think those may be the only two wonders I have though? I didn't take much advantage of +100% GP trait, through 500AD I had just 3, 2 scientist and then a merchant as the third (built 2 academies and made a caravan to Hatty just BARELY before she broke open border agreement with me after I finally declared a religion)

Another thing apparently different in my game is that I did NOT get any discovered silver, gold, or anything else in the hills around Athens -- and I have been working mines on every one of them almost continuously since early in the game. That would have been nice :( :confused:

I'm just waiting for some superhero to appear on this thread in a day or two to tell us all how they're just approaching domination in 500AD.
LOL, rest assured, not me! The score graph shows I was way in last place all by myself for the first couple thousand years, I believe by 500AD I was nipping at Hap's heels for the lead, but definitely not yet running away with it. Much of that lead was due to tech I think, my military was bottom ranked (nothing more than one warrior or archer in each city). I've tried to get on Isabella & Cyrus's good side and use that to keep Hatty and Sal off my back even though I've refused all their demands -- I even bribed Isabella to break open borders with Sal to keep them on poor terms -- that seems to be working. Isabella founded Buddhism and Cyrus declared that too, I decided I would try to use those two as my attack dogs (trying to get more sophisticated diplomatically) so once I got Buddhism in one of my cities I built a monestary and started cranking missionaries out, then converted ASAP. Each of the other civs founded their own religion and are split religiously. Hatty and Sal hate me and Isabel pretty much equally, something like -6. They demand stuff all the time but haven't attacked. I'm hoping Isabella will jump in if they do, though I'm not sure what to think -- I've been giving her stuff for free, got her up to +8, yet so far she has refused to offer a single tech for trading (which is too bad, it would have been mutually beneficial in many cases). No shots have been fired in anger by anyone in my game, for far it's been a 100% pure builder exercise. If I do get attacked my strategy is to whip some quick extra defense wherever it comes & then fight a defensive holding pattern while I hopefully get Isabella and Cyrus to gang up on my attacker. I wonder if the AI is smart enough to see this might happen, it's surprising I haven't been attacked yet given how weak I was (then again, made sure I did not declare Buddhism until I had built some things tougher than an archer).

Well there's a (not so brief after all) synopsis, at least to give a hint that there are others whose games have gone different ways than the majority.

ADDED: here's the history of first contacts from my autolog, to give some idea of how widely I explored early:
Turn 53/660 (2410 BC) Contact made: Arabian Empire
Turn 60/660 (2200 BC) Contact made: Egyptian Empire
Turn 78/660 (1660 BC) Contact made: Spanish Empire
Turn 80/660 (1600 BC) Contact made: Persian Empire
Turn 93/660 (1210 BC) Contact made: Roman Empire
I believe I must've circumnavigated right around 1200 or 1100 BC, because I see I got Writing in 1480 BC & I remember one of my motivations to get it was so I could sail through Hatty's coastal waters in order to close my loop of the globe. My fishing boat was just sitting there waiting for it to finish & an open border agreement to be made. I recall that that's what allowed me to find Jules, and that I finished circumnavigation almost immediately after finding him. I knew I got circumnavigation very early but I didn't realize it was before turn 100 until just now, definitely a record for me.

I popped lots of huts but have no idea how many, and never even got a free tech (though I did get 3-4 warriors and some maps, and my scout got a few experience boosts until he was at 10 and they were wasted -- yeah! :( ) I sent a couple galleys out not long after the fishing boats, but managed to get my one & only scout killed by a wandering barb, and the warriors on the other galley found a couple hostile villages. I think there are still a bunch of huts unpopped out there in my game even at 500 AD, I just never got back to get more than one or two of them.
 
I think you get the corn if you found in place. I moved so that I could get another city that would use the corn.

A little "trick" I used to prevent hatty from settling "my" territory was to close borders when I saw one of her galleys with a settler on it. This made her take the long way around or just settle somewhere else.

My game was a lot like MarkM's in that I didn't get any metals to pop up on the starting island. Also, except for the phony war with cyrus, no one declared on anyone else.

For comparison, I used a galley and got the circumnavigation bonus in 610 BC.

@wwassme, paper in 290AD. Wow, I thought I was doing good with it in (xxx AD). Well, later. Nice!
 
I decided to go for a cultural win since I have never tried that before. To prove my pre-game statement that challenger was an advantage for cultural wins, I selected that save. I need another cultural reference to compare against before deciding which save is most favourable.

I settled on the plains hill and started with the worker, then settler, work boat and then the pyramids. The second built warriors, lighthouse and the Great Lighthouse. Both wonders came out at the same time (880/850 BC) and I settled four more cities rather quick. I missed the treasure island, but got the copper and iron.

My three cultural cities are Athens (with 6 cottages), sheep-fish city to the south (with 7 cottages), and the pig city up NE (with 6 cottages).

I am pretty sure that the Pyramids was a mistake, since my expansion was so slow. It's hard to say until I can compare my research pace with someone else. As you can see, the tech pace was *really* slow for me in this game.

3610 BC Agriculture
3310 BC Mining
2800 BC Sailing
2410 BC Masonry
1900 BC Bronze Working
1510 BC Animal Husbandry
1060 BC Writing
895 BC The Wheel
775 BC Pottery
550 BC Iron Working
310 BC Alphabet
295 BC Mysticism
295 BC Archery
250 BC Polytheism
235 BC Priesthood
115 BC Literature
100 BC Mathematics
55 BC Meditation
40 BC Monarchy
5 AD Monotheism
230 AD Music
245 AD Code of Laws
275 AD Horseback Riding
350 AD Drama
 
@Harbourboy: One of the things I've learned about Archipelago maps is that there are usually a lot of huts that the AI don't reach because they are isolated on islands. Accordingly, investing in a couple of galleys/scouts can pay big dividends.

In addition to the 11 huts my scouts have popped, there are two other guarded huts which my scouts would have died trying to pop. Hopefully, they are still there and haven't turned into barbarian cities by the time I can get a galley with an axe there.

On this map, there may also be islands which can't be reached by galley. After I get to Optics, I plan on sending out a caravel or two with scouts to find those. That worked well in an earlier GOTM, popping a couple of techs.
 
Erkon: I did cultural as well, using the contender save. My tech path was pretty different than yours; I didn't have Alphabet until the early ADs, for example. (Unfortunately, I forgot to turn autologging on until about 1400 AD, so I don't have a real record.) My culture cities were pretty different than yours too.

I didn't pop as many huts as wwassme, but I did pop a lot. The ones I remember were gold, scout x2, experience x3, Metal Casting, Horseback Riding.
 
AArgh! Missing two wonders with only 2 turns to go on each!!
"Hold tight Mr Buttkick, the paramedics will be with you soon"

Commiserations.

It is frustrating isn't it. I managed to get most of my wonders through cruilty. I rushed each wonder I built with 2 pop when it was possible. This is new to me since I find it appaling. But I keep on telling my self this is just a game. But it feel wrong.:(
 
I didn't get any metals popped in Athens either...that woulda been very nice.

I've started through a replay now just to see where I could have improved on my game, and I've thus far founded 2 cities on the stone/horse island, founded the gem/gold site, but lost the pig iron and copper islands to Saladin/Hatty respectively...At 500AD, in that game, I had just declared war on Hatty using cats(as I've got no metals) and taken both her cities on the copper island. Accordingly, I've got 9 cities now, I believe...however, my research has been moving much faster this game.

I put more priority on the Pyramids and Library than before(not trading Alpha away until I had almost finished researching Literature), gaining both of them...so at 500AD, I have recently founded Taoism using a GS, and I've already had 2 other GS and 2 GE's as well(yay for Philosophical and Pacifism) GE's are sleeping right now, 1 GS is sleeping, the other was used for an Academy in Athens...I think if I were to continue this game, it would turn out much like my last one did...which you will hear about in the next spoiler ;)
 
AArgh! Missing two wonders with only 2 turns to go on each!!
"Hold tight Mr Buttkick, the paramedics will be with you soon"
Commiserations.

Well, not only that, but in the last 'pelago gotm I missed Hindu and the Oracle by 2-3 turns :lol:
This time, I was much to blame so I'm more :blush: than :gripe: It was a very nice map with lots of different opportunities imhso.

I have no patience for finishing games that I play as poorly as this one, so no ambulance for me :p
 
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