GotM #18

[ldebrot]

First I have to say:

1. I've never known, that there's a big difference between governments.

2. I've never thought, a Fundy game is much different to other ones.

3. I've never supposed, that it's possible to finish a game at 440 AD!

4. I haven't known that we mustn't change the government

5. I was happy to finish at 1960, after having finished at 2113 at GOTM #17



I should visit the War Academy first, before telling me "King of Sweden". Einstein and Nietzsche are right.

 

[A_Bashkuev]

Dear Duke of Marlborough!

I've already realised that can't finish my GOTM18 game in time, because... (Blasted Egyptian continent prevents my mighty Japanese fleet reaching juicy eastern lands before I've sunk in micromanagement). Now I've got only 3 civs in my world: me, Greeks (very damaged) & Persians (I haven't found no one of their city yet ;(, but from Marco Polo Embassy I know that their Archers & Catapults haven't any chance against hordes of my Triremes & Musketeers - I've get some invading force around 40 Musketeers on 20 Triremes & around 30 of my "medieval GI" crushing Greece now. Oh, my treasury is more then 7000 gold now & I can't spend more then I get in any turn . Well' I know & everybody knows that Game must come to the End in...
I don't found blasted Perses yet & each turn take around 25-30 minutes from me! (When you've get more then 40 Settlers around & 30 cities - it's BIG headache.)
Then I can't finish it in July. Can I just send my result in August (out of any real contest, of course) or - it's better just wait GOTM19. I've around 1300 AD & can send 1AD & 1000AD files.

In any case thnks & brgds Alex.

 

[starlifter]

by A_Bashkuev:

Then I can't finish it in July.

No worries.... you have until the end of the day on the 5th of AUGUST to send in your GOTM18! The deadline is always the 5th of the next month, BTW. So you have 5 more days to finish!

PS, I am not finished, either .

 

[sekong]

To finish the game, I have 3 more capitals to kick; 20+ more cities to bribe/take over; a GW to expire(Or I have to attack the GWed Rome Musketeer with elephant and catapults ).

 

[Old n Slow]

I'm still at it -- have between 10-20 turns to go (haven't played in nearly a week & this weekend looks grim as well).

My usual last minute rush.

 

[A_Bashkuev]

Dear Starlifter!

Thnks a lot! You take out some stone from my soul. By the way, I have a great Sin of some arrogance - I don't saw any treads about this GotM or this GotM Spoiler till this day. It's bad thing, because I simply forgot one the most Fundamental thing about this game - Bribery. I began my "exploding" after researching "Gunpowder" & had already got Leonardo Workshop. Then all my Phalanxes (I produce only Phalanxes, Triremes & Settlers in all my cities, from some "Shaylockian gnat somewhere inside me" - why create some Archers if it cost 30 shields, when I can get Phalanx by 20 shields & convert them for no cost to Musketeers that cost 40 shields?!).
Well, when I arrived in Egypt, I've got just my Musketeers & no Diplomats - why bribe anybody if you can simply shoot them all - without any cost at all??? After disembarking first "assault" wave of my Musketeers on Egypt Triremes of my Eastern Fleet became idle & I begin transport my own Settlers from my continent. (It was no problem, because I didn't get Sanitation in that Time & all my Cities stopped to grow around 12 .)
It was Time when me Western Fleet was renamed as Southern Fleet & met some resistance from some Roman "semi-barbarian". No problem here & no problem in Egypt. Juggernaut of my Musketeer onslaught rolled down any opponents on my path in East & the South.
Oh, stupid me - I forgot about my Lighthouse Wonder - by some weird presumption I thought that some wild Sioux tribessman had it. When I've crushed down last Sioux city I wondered - where this blasted Lighthouse? Oh, holy s**t! It was mine from the start! Stupid, stupid, stupid...
My Triremes crawled along seashore when they can proudly prowl through seas in most arrogant manner! My God, how many turns was so stupidly wasted?
Well, what is done - was done...

Now I wonder - maybe my shooting down all of those poor buggers was another stupid thing? Settler (NONE) is very good thing all around... But what use of all of these Chariot & Archers when I have hordes of Musketeers & another upgrade will take place in not so soon?

By the way - my tech tree:
1-3. Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, Horseback Riding.
4. Alphabet.
5. Code of Laws.
6. Currency.
7. Trade. (Marco Polo Embassy created - nothing interesting from here in that moment, - some Masonry, some Writing, something more, but I'm afraid to give opponent some unwanted advantage & lenghten my own research path.)
8. Masonry.
9. Construction.
Yeah, my policy of holding my techs from exchange gave me some rewards! I acquire from Embassy some new techs!
10-14. Map Making, Literacy, The Wheel, Warrior Code & Writing!
In the same turn I popped all of three hut in my continent, taking in account next ideas:
Barbarian never appears if the hut situated inside city radius (true for 2 hut from 3).
Barbarian never appears, if ALL squares around hut in question have your units.
When your Empire swim into money you very seldom get any money from the hut.
When you have VERY many units hut don't give you new units.
When you've already got Settler (NONE) AI don't give you any.
When you very big ahead in technology AI tend don't get you any technology.

Well, I surround hut in question by my units, I had a very big chunk of money & my Phalanxes just hived around my continent, but I haven't big lead in Technology. Then I pop all 3 huts.
15. Engineering.
16. Invention.
Stupid, stupid, stupid! Damned Barbarian was created on the square from that my Phalanx go to pop blasted hut!
Well, no problem... Engineering was first alphabetically in list of possible techs - then its acquiring in some sense was predicted. Alas, Invention precedess Iron Working & acquiring Invention prevent us from getting new tech from any huts. (Iron Working is second alphabetically from Invention - then from my point of view it was fat chance to get it. Maybe I'm wrong.)
OK. Good side from it - I can use city with almost ready Wonder for creating King Richard Crusade & get Leonardo Workshop after. No sense convert all Phalanxes to Legions when all of them will get some shooting sticks after couple of turns!
17. Iron Working.
18. Gunpowder.
OK. Then we GO! Let's BIG War begins!

After that my first priority was "Sanitation" tech. I used my Caravans only for helping create Wonders & in 1300 AD I've get them all except Oracle in Persian Pasargadae. (Great Wall, Colossus & Hanging Gardens I've get by my Strength .)

From your message I found that you get another tech path & wonder, - what was your strategic goal there? (My goals was - Trade, Masonry, Construction, Gunpowder.) Pls, explain if it's possible. Thnks & brgds, Alex.

 

[starlifter]

by A_Bashkuev:

By the way - my tech tree:
1-3. Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, Horseback Riding.
4. Alphabet.
5. Code of Laws.
6. Currency.
7. Trade.
8. Masonry.
9. Construction.
10-14. Map Making, Literacy, The Wheel, Warrior Code & Writing!

I try to get Monarchy by Tech#5, to collect more resources, grow faster (irrigation), and reduce corruption .

From your message I found that you get another tech path & wonder, - what was your strategic goal there? (My goals was - Trade, Masonry, Construction, Gunpowder.) Pls, explain if it's possible. Thnks & brgds, Alex.

My immediate goal is almost always:

1. Monarchy (by Tech #5, plus try and time discovery with an Oedo year).
2. Writing (necessary for Barb defense).
3. Philosophy.
4. Trade.


In general, I avoid Gunpowder for many reasons:

1. The loss of 1 gold barracks.
2. The AI really gets pissed if I have GP and they don't.
3. I'm almost always ahead of the AI in tech.
4. Trade is cut in half.
5. There is pressure (e.g., resource strain) to build lots of wonders at the same time, yet still create trade routes and grow (not to mention expand).
6. LaFayette has some thoughts about Gunpowder in the Super Ironclad strategy, which favors some Sea unit techs over Land unit techs. Like him, I concentrate more on Navy than Land units.

n the same turn I popped all of three hut in my continent, taking in account next ideas:
(1) Barbarian never appears if the hut situated inside city radius (true for 2 hut from 3).
(2) Barbarian never appears, if ALL squares around hut in question have your units.
(3) When your Empire swim into money you very seldom get any money from the hut.
(4) When you have VERY many units hut don't give you new units.
(5) When you've already got Settler (NONE) AI don't give you any.
(6) When you very big ahead in technology AI tend don't get you any technology.

(I numbered your notes)

1. To my knowledge, you will never get a barb outcome from a hut in your city radius.
2. True!
3. True!
4. Usually true... depends on what else you have.
5. Not True! You can get a NON settler anytime after founding your first city, or before founding your first city if you wait enough game turns. Smash (who has a HUGE amount of Civ 2 experience) has noticed that if you have no NONE Settlers on a continent, the "odds" increase that a hut will deliver a Nomad (a NONE Settler). I can say for 100% sure that you can get a Nomad, even if you have a NONE... and even if that NONE is on the same continent at the Hut. It is just the "odds" are less... but it is definitely possible!
6. True (seemingly), but I have not tested it myself.

 

[Narz]

2. Writing (necessary for Barb defense).

By this, I assume you mean the ability to bribe oncoming barbs right?

In general, I avoid Gunpowder for many reasons:
4. Trade is cut in half.

What exactally do mean? Does it take twice as many bulbs to get all sciences after GP?

Man, when it comes to Civ II, I realize, as Eienstein said "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know".

- Narz

 

[starlifter]

by SL:
2. Writing (necessary for Barb defense).

by Narz:
By this, I assume you mean the ability to bribe oncoming barbs right?

Exactly. Different people use various techniques, by what I try and do is have dips ready on roads to bribe any barbs that are either a serious threat, or if I need them as units (es. Triremes). Dips let me defend with absolute minimal 1-shield military forces, since I usually try to get to Republic fairly quick & don't want to pay unnecessary support.

by SL:
In general, I avoid Gunpowder for many reasons:
4. Trade is cut in half.

by Narz:
What exactally do mean? Does it take twice as many bulbs to get all sciences after GP?

There are a lot of inter-relationships among tech advances and things that occur in the game. Slow Thinker, Sodak, Lafayette, Duke o York, Duke of Marlbrough, and I, and probably some others at Apolyton, helped Nethog put together Nethog's Civ 2 Reference Pack, which included very detailed knowledge about the Tech Tree. It is very good reading, here. Given what we put into it, there is no better or more accurate reference anywhere, including the Game Manuals or the Prima Guide.

Oh, the answer is that if Navigation has not been discovered and Game Turn 200 has not been reached yet, then Gunpowder will negate the 200% Early Trade Bonus. This means, in effect, the value of all your trade routes and trade bonuses are slashed in half, although in reality the double bonus is simply removed and you are getting the normal, 100% value.

Example: a caravan is worth 300 gold, and no one knows of Navigation, and it it game turn 134. Nothing changes, except some civilization (ANY civ, not just you) discovers Gunpowder. Now the delivery is only worth the normal 150 gold (and of course 150 shields).



I'll also attach a zipped copy of the PowerPoint version (ver. 1.01, 55KB):

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Originally posted by starlifter
There are a lot of inter-relationships among tech advances and things that occur in the game. Slow Thinker, Sodak, Lafayette, Duke o York, Duke of Marlbrough, and I, and probably some others at Apolyton, helped Nethog put together Nethog's Civ 2 Reference Pack, which included very detailed knowledge about the Tech Tree. It is very good reading, ...

Thank you Narz for asking this, I was wondering about it myself. Thank you Starlifter for the link to the reference. I was the first to download it. It looks impressive, though I have not yet had a chance to read it.

 

[anarchywrksbest]

Reading all these posts it is amazing to see how TOTALLY different the games ca turn out. One example is the Civ's that survive to the later game:

In my game the Egyptians were gone very early and the Greeks and my Japanese dispatched the Romans. The Greeks got nearly all the Sioux cities and the French were very average. The Persians were just too far away for any of us......

But when I read of how the Greeks were conquered in other peoples game it amazes me, cause in my game the Greeks were HUUUGGE! I mean they controlled a good third of the map and if my Spaceship hadn't arrived they would have easily got rid of the French and move up through my Ex-Roman Lands and conquer Japan! I mean whenn I got Apollo I was scared at how big they had become.