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GotM #18

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Smash, Jul 1, 2002.

  1. Marlos

    Marlos Christian Soldier

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    Fundy removes a lot of the early game troubles!

    No unhappiness (no need for HG), no shields taken by units (unless over 10), little corruption.

    Quickly settled main island, and after the discovery of mapmaking, I found other suitable lands to settle. After the initial slowness of science, I have made up for the general lack of trade arrows by expanding my boundaries.

    I believe I have 20+ cities now, generating a tech every 11 or 12 turns. Getting beaucoup dinero, which I am using to buy libraries and other cheap improvements. Army is getting larger, developing a fleet of diplomats. Poor Egyptians :egypt: , I found them first. Found the French (who defeated the Romans) next.

    I have STWA, Pyramids, Mike's [dance] , close to LW. Will go after ASTC next, maybe INC.

    What a great game! I wish I could play on deity level all of the time under Fundy!
     
  2. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    I have yet to start this, but it has been in the back of my mind. And truth to tell, I think that one of the first challenges will be the choice of the first tech. I can see the advantages of Alphabet, and having a quick Poly under the belt can really dominate any early war effort. On the other hand, with no growth from WLT_D, the Pyramids Wonder (Masonry) becomes very important -- and with slow tech, this may have to be researched ahead of normal schedule. Similar thoughts are extended for the next few techs as well.

    Of course, if there are close neighbors, tech choices may alter…
    :)
     
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I started playing over the weekend and discovered this undocumented feature soon. However, I disagree with the waste part. If you set Science above 50%, the extra will simply go to taxes; at least it did in my version of the game. I tried this multiple times, I am pretty sure. Thus s80t20 is no different than s50t50.
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    While we are discussing undocumented features, here is another one I discovered this weekend:

    If you build the Great Library, according to documentation, you get any tech already discovered by 2 other civs. This is not entirely accurate though. In reality you only get a tech if another civ discovers it AFTER you have built the library and some other civ has already discovered it. Thus, any techs already discovered by other civs at the time you build the Great Library are not given to you. For example, let say 5 of your rivals have already discovered pottery but you have not. You build the Great library. You do not get the pottery until that last rival who has not yet discovered it does so.
     
  5. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    I have just tried it with MGE (5.4.0f), and my taxes remain constant as thescience goes from 50% to 60% to 70% to 80%, both as reported by the Slider Info and as reported by the Trade Advisor detail.

    What version do you use? There are indeed differences between versions for some things; maybe this is one. I'd like to test it to make sure. Maybe others can note it too, since we are all going to be Fundy players this month.



    Quite true. It does not "catch you up", like Leonardo's Workshop does. This normally works to teh human's advantage, as you can keep certain techs from the AI that has the GL if you gift properly. Naturally, in many higher difficulty games, the Human does not build the GL... but in Fundy, that might be a good idea for a change. Stealing, swapping, hut popping, and maybe the GL are likely to be the best early game sources of science for Fundy from day 1.
     
  6. Smash

    Smash Super Lurker Retired Moderator

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    I have inadvertantly handicapped the AIs by forbidding government changes.Never occured to me that this would apply to the AI as well :o .There is a work around,but I don't think the ai will do it.

    Oddly,Despo is one of the governments the AI handles best :rolleyes:..decent ai democracies often switch to despo in my games :confused:.They are performing admirably in my game anyway..for the ai that is ;)
     
  7. anarchywrksbest

    anarchywrksbest Deity

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    I wondered why that had happened, makes sense. Does that mean the reason I haven't been doing to badly is becaues the AI is handicapped??? Not because i'm getting better :(
     
  8. Smash

    Smash Super Lurker Retired Moderator

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    I don't know.The ai is not really handicapped compared to the human at deity but I could have given them Monarchy I spose.

    They are doing ok in my game.They seem to be doing about the same as any other game.I also am doing ok..I think.Compared to a "normal" game at 1ad,I am pretty close in tech,way ahead in population(Mainly due to Pyramids).I really didn't know how it would go as I hardly ever go Fundy,let alone start in it.I thought I would be way behind in tech.I guess I kinda was until Marco's.
     
  9. anarchywrksbest

    anarchywrksbest Deity

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    I am in the 20th century
    Just tring to get a high score by 2020 now. I was behind in tech for a longtime so the AI built nearly all the wonder :( But withplenty off trade and spying I am about level now. At war with the Romans and could easily conquer them except I'm running out of time.....
     
  10. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    I got to know this before I continue. Does Shakespear's Theater have any effect when you're under a Fundy govt? Anyone?
     
  11. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    No. None at all. No gold, not even help in mollifying citizens in line 3 of the happiness screen.

    Most worthless Wonders in a 100% Fundy game:

    1. Shakespeare's Theatre (Zero value).
    2. Statue of Liberty (Zero value).
    3. Womens Sufferage (Zero Value).
    4. Eiffel Tower (Almost zero value).



    Further, the normally "worthless" Great Library might be of use in a 100% Fundy game. This could well yield more than a SSC in the 1st 2/3 of a Fundy game.

    The following wonders will tithe gold to Fundy gov'ts:

    1. Michelangelos's Chapel (will give 2, 3, or 4, depending on the techs you possess).
    2. JSBach will tithe 2 gold in each city.
    3. Oracle will tithe 2 gold for each city that has a temple (until Theology is discovered by any civ).



    Hope that helps.

    PS, I am starting a Fundamentalism thread for discussion/help/info for those that might like it.

    :)
     
  12. duke o' york

    duke o' york It don't mean a thing....

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    This looks to be a really interesting GotM, but I can forsee problems with the AI's inability to change governments. If the AI were able to change government then the science would go a lot quicker but I suppose with the amount of trading that the AI civs do anyway then this will affect everyone equally. Well done to anyone who manages a OCC with this game! :)

    Marechal, your quote should read:
    :goodjob:
     
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Well, this supports my theory not yours. If your theory of wasted trade was true your taxes should have gone down as your scienece increased beyond 50% but they remain constant.
    Single player version on Macintosh.
     
  14. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Wow, these guys are going to be sitting duck. I think will stop taking risky plays, to sneak a lone ranger diplomat to steal cities.

    is there any one trying this as a OCC???
     
  15. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    by Ali:
    Thanks for this note! I've gone back and looked more carefully, and the situation is more complex than we thought. In fact, it turns out you are correct about the tax issue, if Lux is held constant (esp. at 0%). However, the Luxuries are reduced when Tax is held constant (e.g., at 0%). BUT.... teh taxes are "secretly" increased despite what the tax slider (e.g., 0%) says!

    So here it is:

    1. If you set constant Luxuries (e.g., 0%), and change the slider to 60%, 70%, or 80%, then the tax rate will remain at the level where it was when the science slider was set to 50%. This means: at 0% Lux, you are not losing resources, overall. you are getting some tax, even though you are not getting that extra 10%, 20%, or 30% science that the slider says you are.

    2. If you set a constant Tax (e.g., 0%), and move the science above 50%, you will lose luxuries (as expected from a lower slider setting as science goes up), but instead of losing resources, tax is added, despite the Tax slider reading 0%! In other words, your resources are not lost, despite not getting the 60-80% science.

    So the issue, at least in MGE for the PC, is inconsistent.... but at least you don't lose the taxes!!. This should make people like Becka (who said she finished the game already) happy!

    :)
     
  16. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    When I discovered Republic, I was given the choice to change to that government. I, of course, declined, but would the AI then be given that choice as well once they discovered it? I think it may have happened with Monarchy as well.

    And Lord Verluna: I am indeed making a go at an OCC game. I'll keep you all updated as to how it goes... :)
     
  17. anarchywrksbest

    anarchywrksbest Deity

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    I was doing so well, i had just conquered the Romans when the French got Nukes and bombed the hell out of my cities. Global warming followed and seriuosly hampered my SS production.

    One question, if a SS is due to arrive in 2020 will it show up on my score??
     
  18. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    Yes. The way the SS works is this.... on the Landing Year, instead of the game going through all your cities and THEN allowing your SS to land, it immediately checks to see if the SS has arrived. In your case, it is 2020, so as soon as you end your 2019 turn, you should get the "Arrival" message, and the SS points on your score. This should occur before the retirement event, meaning you will have a SS victory, not a retirement. :)
     
  19. anarchywrksbest

    anarchywrksbest Deity

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    Good, I launched in 2011 with a 8.9 year journey so I thought it would arrive in 2019. Thanks Starlifter.

    Although with the amount of pollution from the war I think the bonus will only just cover the pollution penalty :(

    Also the war isn't going to well and my capital is still open to a nuke/para attack. Lets hope I can get these SDI defences built.
     
  20. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    Try really really hard to clean up the pollution... two skulls nullify the credit for an entire wonder! If necessary, make peace and give up techs to slide your engineers in and clean up the mess before the landing. One radical thing (if you are a gambler) is to force a global warming. Global warming cleans up all pollution, so if you have many dozens or hundreds of white skulls laying about, you can sell off your Mass Transits, and pollute until GW happens, then chop production till the SS lands, to prevent new pollution.

    If you detonate at least 7 nukes moments after hittting the LAUNCH button, the pressure wave will propel your SS even faster :). (kidding!).

    Good luck!
     

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