GOTM 23 Final Spoiler

[Balbes]

Jesusin lauched faster... by less than 10 years though. So I couldn't beat the challenger handicap this time. Will try harder.

 

[AlanH]

While I love your relentless ribbing of MW, you might have warned those of us still playing SGOTM 05 that www.civgeeks.com was in fact the MW SGOTM 05 thread!

Now I have to go get on my knees to beg AlanH for forgiveness for inadvertantly wandering into their thread!

Not that anything there could spoil us at this late stage of our game ...

dV

You're forgiven ... this time

 

[LowtherCastle]

With this map script (The Ring), you know in advance, and quite precisely too, what shape the land is, and where the other civs are to be found. This is an ideal setup for a very early rush.

(Note that were we located on a subcontinent with only East-West links, like England, that would've probably made a warrior rush impossible because the distance is too long in both directions.)

I would like to ask you a question that has been lurking and festering in my mind for some time (not specifically related to you, of course):

How does one know, in advance, whether such a rush is likely to work?​

Obviously, it depends on the map, as you pointed out, but also other factors, such as difficulty level. So, to be more specific, what I'm wondering is whether you

- run test(s) prior to playing a GOTM (or SGOTM) to get a feel for all the different specific conditions?

- or do you rely on a vast reservoir of experience?

- or do you just develop yoru pre-game analysis based on a general hunch about what the conditions are?

- or do you do something else that I haven't thought of?

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, could you please list the year which you discovered your techs? I know this is a bit work for you, but your autolog will have all the details. I'm happy even if it's in spanish Please? Or perhaps I can wait until the event log after the game has finished and the results are up...

All of them?
I'll list the most representative ones, please ask for any particular data your are interested in.

Pott 2500BC
CoL+CS 595BC
Alpha 430BC
Constr 235BC
Educ 35BC
Astro+Econo 11XXAD
Biolo 1280AD
Lib+Radio 1352AD
Compu 1412AD
Rocket 1520AD
Indust 1571AD
Fussion 1658AD
Ecolo 1709AD

 

[jesusin]

Comparative analysis between jesusin’s and Balbes’ Spaceships.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to compare my skills to those of Balbes, I just want to learn from the master and comparing is the best way.

Data..................jesusin.....................Balbes......................Evaluation
Result................17XXAD....................17XXAD....................Same year!
1st War..............China, slow...............China, Warrior rush.....Balbes+
REX...................Balanced (Set+Gra).....Crazy (only Set)........Undecided
2nd War.............Rome, slow................Aztec, slow...............Equal
CS slingshot........595BC......................520BC......................Equal
1st Cottage.........2290BC....................around 220BC............jesusin+
Capital...............1W of start................Beijin.......................Balbes+
Religion...............Ignored.....................Miss spam+OR..........Equal
Liberalism............Radio(1352AD)............???.........................Don’t know
Democr/Eman.......Ignored....................???.........................Don’t know
GPFarm...............Late, 2resources........Early, 1 resource.......Undecided
Gifting techs........No...........................No..........................Equal
Bpt -1k/1AD/1kAD.15/100/450...............???.........................Don’t know
Academy.............370BC......................???.........................Don’t know
Oxford.................680AD.....................???.........................Don’t know
Total GPs.............16..........................???..........................Don’t know
Endgame Beeline....Biolo-Compu.............???.........................Don’t know
After research.......12turns...................???.........................Balbes+

I thought about moving my capital too, since Academy+Bureau+Oxford accounts for half of the research output of your civ. I had already built an Academy in the original capital, so I decided against it. I am still unsure about that decision.

Anyone’s opinion is welcome.

 

[Thrallia]

I finished my first game in what feels like forever with a 1742AD Diplo Victory.

~24k points, and I expect to be beat in my time by a good deal, I didn't get any GE, and it took me about 35 turns to build the UN.

I was also a little slow converting from a SE to a CE...I'm not sure when the best time to do so is.

My most important decisions were as follows:

Deciding to go for a SE
On an arid map there will not be room for any cottage spam, and most worthwhile city sites will have 2+ food resources anyway, making an SE viable.
This went well, I went AH>Writing first, and didn't discover my lack of metals until the late 1X00s.

Attacking China for my first war
I had been circling the globe with my scouts and warriors thanks to my early OBs, and initially began gearing up for a war with Rome, to prevent them from getting Praetorians. However, by the time I did that, I realized they already had axes, and I was still using warriors.

However, I realized shortly afterward that China had not built any infrastructure yet for some reason, and had access to iron. Upon researching Construction, I began an offensive with Elephants and Cats for my first time ever(I generally don't build Elephants, and I don't usually 'rush' if I don't have metal). I managed to take all 5 Chinese cities(razing one and letting the barbs capture another from me) while only losing 2 cats.

Not killing the Aztecs
Almost the exact turn I killed off the Chinese, the Aztecs, mad at me for killing their only friend, declared war on me. I immediately took the two cities they had in the Chinese area, razing one and keeping the other(that would be the city I let the barbs capture...the aztecs took it from them while I finished off China)
I then moved down the ring connection, razing two cities on the way down, and kept Tenochtitlan, the Jewel of the Aztecs. I had a large army there, 6 Elephants, 8 Cats, 3 Maces, and 3 Axes...but I've learned from past diplo victories that there needs to be a universally hated bad guy to win the easiest...so at that point, rather than continue to attack him, I peaced Monty when he had 3 cities left and no metals.

Beelining techs
I beelined from the end of the Aztec war in around 800AD, to Liberalism, then researched Astronomy and tried to get Liberalism to 1 turn left so I wouldn't get beat to it by the Romans or English(the only two that even knew paper at this time, and only because I traded it to them). I accidently finished it off though, and took Sci Method with it. This ended up for the best though, as I was able to immediately switch to FR, trade and gift Education and Liberalism to England, thus allowing her to adopt FR as well, her favorite civic. That gave me a double boon...1) She no longer was the worst enemy of Rome and France, my two allies, and 2) I got the civics diplo bonus from her. I didn't beeline straight to MM from Physics, I researched up to Constitution to gain Representation(bonus with Rome, the Pyramids builder), then went through Radio and MM. After researching MM I did Democracy, and shut down research to build up funds to purchase the UN.

The Diplo Game
In 1400AD, Rome unexpectedly declared war on France...they'd been best friends since Judaism had been founded, but I guess Julius got antsy. I managed to stay out of the war without accruing too many negatives with either side, then bribed Julius to end the war after they had exchanged cities for about 50 years. Unfortunately, Julius was now Louis' worst enemy...so I bribed Louis into war with Monty(lasted a whole 30 years with zero battles), making Monty his worst enemy again.

Also, my diplo opponent kept oscillating between America and England...I wasn't sure for a long time who would be my opponent, but I hoped America would be. I had better relations with England, and wouldn't be able to bribe America into any mutual wars(I also couldn't get a civics bonus with them, as they never learned Democracy)

The turn I finished the UN, Monty went psycho and declared war on me, despite my 30 unit army sitting in Tenochtitlan still. I had a minor tech advantage in military over Monty(gunpowder vs maces), but I had superior numbers, and a tech advantage everywhere else. I bought a musketman in Tenochtitlan, bought the UN, bribed Louis and Julius into war with Monty again, and switched civics to HR from US. I had enough bonuses with Julius that I didn't need to go to Representation for the civics, but Louis wasn't as happy with me anymore. Luckily, a mutual war and using his favorite civic gave me an immediate 5 point boost, bringing him up to +11 with me(Julius was already +12, and England was at +9 with me).

I had done the math and knew I could win without England if I were able to take 4 of the 5 Aztec cities quickly. I wasn't able to, but chance smiled at me. England requested I help them with some tech...so I did, and it brought her from +9 and Pleased(she was +6 and friendly with America, so I was out her vote at that point) to +10 and Friendly. She also then became willing to be bribed into war with Monty...so I did so.

The game ended 3 turns later, after I took 3 of Monty's cities, with me getting Julius, Louis and England to all vote for me. I needed 279 votes and got 341.

My biggest mistake was never getting a GE. Since I never built a forge though, it was kinda hard to do so(especially as my only wonder besides the UN was the Great Library). I built the UN in Beijing, as it became my top commerce and hammer city, depending on how I allocated the populace.

So, not a great game...but better than many I've had, and a nice reintroduction to Civ after so long away.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

Seems i am the third person to submit their first GOTM for this one. Also, please note in advance i have a bum finger and all spelling mistakes should be blamed on it.

Arcadic-Goal: Culture-Achieved in 1923AD.

First off, i hate arid maps. That being said, i loved the lack of any warring resource to start with.

I settled in placed and trained something along the lines of warrior worker warrior settlerx2 in my capital. Being that barbs were on, my early plan was to REX as well as i can to bust the fog. Being a ring map, its very easy to do that while securing good city locations on the edge of the ring. I settled my 2nd city nw on the coast near the corn, the third went for the marble and
wine shortly after.

I make it a point in my culture games to skip the first 3 religions. Why? they spread pretty well, everyone adopts them, and it makes choosing a religion smarter when one does spread. I managed to found Confu and Taoism, the latter i bulbed from the GP from stonehenge. (which i was able to trade liberaly for years of tech) Ironicly, i never had a state religion. As much as i tried to convert JC and Mao, i couldnt get them both the same, and MZ decided to keep his Christianity. Happieness was never a problem, so in retrospect it actualy was benefitial.

I ended up only founding 6 total cities, and taking 1 barb city to the south above Mao. This city turned out to be the one thing keeping me in the game as i later found out.

I suffered from hammer problems all game, and my finish reflects that greatly. Took forever to get GT, OX and IW up in key cities. I decided to use the marble city as my GP farm, but unlucky it founded both my religions, tainting my GP pool because of the Religious wonders i had placed there. I popped 1 GP from it while trying to spam artists. 9-10 artists were produced, along with 1-2 of each other excpet merchant.(from other sites.) I used the 1 GE to rush Tas Mahal in GP farm for extra points and culture.

Around 1350 AD, the first war chimes rang loud. MZ deced on me, of which i then got JC to Dec, and i suspect MZ bribed L14 into war with JC. Mao then joined the MZ war shortly after. MZ sent about 10 knights and 1-2 cats at my Barb city, located so strategicly on the istmus connecting myself and Mao. Lucky, i used Elephants to take it, and they mopped up the force rather quicky. By that time i had rifles and grens coming out and sent a small force to harrass MZ into peace. Everything was pretty quiet from then on, with the exception of MZ almost eliminating Mao, and JC taking 2-3 cities from L14.

I turned off my research ~1600AD, after physics. was getting around 300 cpt in all 3 cities, give or take 10.

I could have done alot better, but i meandered a bit with my actual plan, as a usualy dont have a plan for games. I typicaly play till a stratagy reveals itself, and get too caught up in building everything possible.

Normalized score was around 4500, but at least i got my feet wet in the GOTM catagory. Thanks to the admins for a great map with some interesting opponents. Also thanks to all the write-up from Gotm 21 and beyond, as they have been excelent reads for all purposes.

 

[Harbourboy]

I went for a HoF style cultural victory and was getting close, but retired when faced with an unexpected DoW as I had no armies whatsoever so it was pointless to continue.

 

[Balbes]

How does one know, in advance, whether such a rush is likely to work? Obviously, it depends on the map, as you pointed out, but also other factors, such as difficulty level.

I hadn't played any GOTMs on Noble or another below-Monarch difficulty, but Lexad played several, and was throwing phrases around like "As is customary on Prince, I warrior-rushed a couple of neighbors and took 'em out". So this made me want to get a feel for it myself.

run test(s) prior to playing a GOTM (or SGOTM) to get a feel for all the different specific conditions?

I generated a Ring map or two in the builder to see what The Ring looked like, because Ainwood kept saying he wasn't of too high an opinion about that script in the pre-game thread. I immediately saw how the layout favored the rushing tactics.

Can you remember how many warriors you had in your stack? And how many units were defending Beijing?

I built 4 warriors in total. The 1st warrior went west, and was still healing after a close run-in with a lion when the 2nd warrior, who went west, found the land bridge to Beijing. The 3rd and 4th warriors went there. The 1st later went on to discover Rome.

I expected to find just 1 warrior guarding Beijing, so with 3 attackers I was certain about success (3 vs 1 is nearly 100% chance, 2 vs 1 is less than 50% though). Just as the final 4th warrior reached the Chinese cultural borders (T43), a 2nd defender appeared in Beijing! That sure was a downer but 3 vs 2 is about 50% chance, and the reward, an AI's capital city, was much greater than the risk, 3 warriors, so I gave the order to assault.

Turn 43/660 (2710 BC)
Frederick(Germany) declares war on Mao Zedong(China)

IBT: Attitude Change: Mao Zedong(China) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 44/660 (2680 BC)

IBT:
Turn 45/660 (2650 BC)
While attacking in Chinese territory at Beijing, Warrior loses to: Chinese Warrior (1.40/2) (Prob Victory: 3.6%)
While attacking in Chinese territory at Beijing, Warrior loses to: Chinese Warrior (0.72/2) (Prob Victory: 9.9%)
While attacking in Chinese territory at Beijing, Warrior defeats (1.04/2): Chinese Warrior (Prob Victory: 39.5%)

IBT: Buddhism founded in a distant land

Turn 46/660 (2620 BC)
Warrior promoted: City Raider I
Warrior promoted: City Raider II
While attacking in Chinese territory at Beijing, Warrior defeats (1.38/2): Chinese Warrior (Prob Victory: 89.3%)
Captured Beijing (Mao Zedong)
Chinese Empire has been eliminated
Beijing begins: Settler (150 turns)

 

[Vynd]

Jesusin, contender, goal fastest spaceship. Result: 1742AD space victory.

Since this is my first GOTM spaceship, I don't know if the date is good or not. Sounds unimpressive, but the arid map doesn't help... We shall see.

That's a very good time for a launch, under any conditions. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a medal. There's only so much a person can do to speed up a space race game. If you outpace all of the AIs--and it sounds like you did--then after awhile you have to research everything yourself. Not to mention build all of the parts. There's just not much one can do to finese that.

 

[Balbes]

Data..................jesusin.....................Balbes......................Evaluation
Result................1742AD....................1748AD....................Same year!
1st War..............China, slow...............China, Warrior rush.....
REX...................Balanced (Set+Gra)....Crazy (only Set)........
2nd War.............Rome, slow................Aztec, slow...............
CS slingshot........595BC......................520BC......................
1st Cottage.........2290BC....................around 220BC............
Capital...............1W of start...............Beijing.......................
Religion...............Ignored...................Miss spam+OR..........
Liberalism............Radio(1352AD)...........Computers(1412AD)...........
Democr/Eman.......Ignored....................Ignored.....................
GPFarm...............Late, 2resources........Early, 2 resources.......
Gifting techs........No...........................No..........................
Bpt -1k/1AD/1kAD.15/100/450...............30/113/489..................
Academy.............370BC(Berlin).............250BC(Beijing)...................
Oxford.................680AD.....................1124AD......................
Total GPs.............16..........................14...........................
Endgame Beeline....Biolo-Compu.............Rifling-Fusion...............
After research.......12turns...................10turns.....................


Analysis: I caught up with the Contenders at around halfway into the game, but once all the cottages were villages/towns, there was nothing to pull me further ahead. Should have micromanaged better - I was somewhat sloppy.

 

[orb]

I went for a HoF style cultural victory and was getting close, but retired when faced with an unexpected DoW as I had no armies whatsoever so it was pointless to continue.

Heh Harbourboy...No way man...I've secretly been using your scores to benchmark my own for the past few games...What am I going to do now??? (You've been better in case you were wondering.) Guess I'll have to wait until next month now.

 

[Vynd]

My plan from the start was a Cultural victory. My primary concern early on was to find the best locations available for cottage cities, and to develop techs that would help me grow. Founding religions was a secondary concern. I figured if I didn’t establish them they’d spread to me anyway on a map like this. Another component of the plan was to not adopt a state religion, because of the harm it would do to my diplomatic relations. My hope was to get through the game as peacefully as possible since in my experience fighting tends to slow progress towards a Culture win.

I sent my Scout east, saw nothing good, so moved the Settler west onto the desert hill. Decided to settle there, wished I hadn’t when I saw how I’d left a fringe of marginal territory to the west and south. Still a reasonable city site though.

The scout circled north then west and then south into Mao-land. I liked the looks of his territory more than mine, way better for cottaging. Perhaps a war was called for after all? I built a Worker then sent a Warrior scouting east. Then an Archer while waiting to reach pop 3, followed by a Settler, which was done in 2260 BC.

I went Agri, AH, Archery with my early research. Why Archery? To be honest because I had forgotten I started with Mining! Had I remembered I certainly would have gone BW, and found no Copper around. Instead I did Archery because I thought I needed some military before making a run at Hinduism. Which I missed by one turn, finishing Poly in 2230 BC. At this point I wimped out a bit on my “religions will spread to me” plan and decided to do a nice, safe, CoL slingshot. I built an Archer or two and a second settler before starting the Oracle in Berlin.

Meanwhile, I’d decided to be bold and build my second city in the best cottaging spot I’d found, even though it was considerably closer to Mao’s capital than my own. Hamburg was built in 2050 BC, SE of the isthmus, on the far side of the mountains there, with access to Sheep, two flood plains, and a bunch of grassland/jungle tiles on a river. My third city, Munich, went at the NW corner of my continent with clams, corn, gold in 1450 BC.

I finished the Oracle in 955 BC and took CoL, which established Confucianism in Hamburg. Hamburg would spend pretty much the entire game devoted to building Temples and other cultural improvements, plus the occasional missionary. Once I finally developed BW in 895 BC I started making extensive use of the whip. My next research target was Pottery, then Masonry. I soon started building the Pyramids in Berlin so I would have Universal Suffrage when I needed it. After that I started working on Alphabet and send Scouts to meet everyone I could. I built a 4th city to the NE with Sheep and Ivory that would serve as my military production center, in 655 BC.

That was the last of my new cities for awhile, as I concentrated on the Pyramids, culture buildings, military units and workers. A Great Prophet arrived in Berlin in 400 BC, I saved him until he could pop Theology for me in 235 BC. That established Christianity in Munich. The Pyramids were finished not long after. Thanks to them I eventually received two Great Engineers.

I was first to Alphabet, in 370 BC. From there until there rest of the game I researched almost all Culture-related techs, like Drama and Music, and traded for other stuff I needed. I think the only exception was Construction in 215 AD, when I was feeling insecure with my all-Archer military. I was also still considering an attack on Mao at this stage. But in the end I decided against it because it would distract from building culture stuff, and because I didn’t really want Montezuma as a direct neighbor. I ended up fighting no wars.

Since I wasn’t going to be taking over Beijing I decided Munich was as good a city as any to be my third Legendary site. I also decided to make it my Great Artist factory. I would have preferred to split those roles between two cities but I felt like I had already waited too long on both counts. It worked out OK.

In the middle stages of the game I built lots of missionaries and temples, while having one city devoted to military units. I used a Great Engineer to build the Parthenon in Munich, in 395 AD. I also settled a Great Artist there after popping him from Music, in 590 AD. I gradually expanded across the rest of the starting landmass until I had the nine cities I’d need to get one of every possible Cathedral in my culture cities. While all of this was going on, Hinduism spread into one of my new cities, and Louis started sending Buddhist missionaries to convert my cities as well, giving me four religions to play with.

I decided to research Printing Press on my own, use Liberalism to pop Nationalism, and then switch to Universal Suffrage and shut down research. I went all cash in 1388 AD and started buying various culture buildings. My plan was to stay in this mode until Munich, which was making almost no hammers, had all of its Cathedrals and most of the culture buildings I needed elsewhere were finished as well. Then I would go as close to 100% culture as I could manage.

It took me a lot longer than I’d anticipated to make the switch, something like 80 turns. Other than that, though, the end game went very smoothly. I used another Great Engineer to build the Taj Mahal in Hamburg. My non-culture cities either went to all Commerce after their Cathedral-enabling temples were finished or continued to build military units to keep my power high enough to deter an attack. Once everything was maxed out my three Legendary candidates were producing about 550 culture a turn at 80% culture. I’d stockpiled 8 Great Artists which I used to put me over the top in 1836 AD. Had I managed one more of them I could have won 10 turns or so earlier, but I ended up with a Great Prophet instead, who built the Confucian Shrine.

I’m reasonably happy with my results, considering that the terrain prevented me from having anything close to perfect culture cities. However there must be room for improvement considering the long period I spent cash rushing stuff. I think I didn’t build enough cottages. Only Hamburg and Berlin had very many, everything else was oriented toward hammers to build missionaries and temples. So even at 100% cash my income wasn’t all that impressive and thus cash-rushing took longer than I’d hoped. Another possible mistake was to avoid adopting a religion. It helped keep anyone from getting mad at me, but Organized Religion is an extremely helpful civic when you’re trying for a culture win, and I didn’t have it available.

 

[Harbourboy]

Heh Harbourboy...No way man...I've secretly been using your scores to benchmark my own for the past few games...What am I going to do now??? (You've been better in case you were wondering.) Guess I'll have to wait until next month now.

I still submitted my retired game, but you're having a really bad time if you do worse than I did. I was RIGHT on track to get the culture points needed but it was always going to turn to custard if I got attacked.

 

[jesusin]

Data..................jesusin.....................Balbes......................Evaluation
Result................1742AD....................1748AD....................Same year!
1st War..............China, slow...............China, Warrior rush.....
REX...................Balanced (Set+Gra)....Crazy (only Set)........
2nd War.............Rome, slow................Aztec, slow...............
CS slingshot........595BC......................520BC......................
1st Cottage.........2290BC....................around 220BC............
Capital...............1W of start...............Beijing.......................
Religion...............Ignored...................Miss spam+OR..........
Liberalism............Radio(1352AD)...........Computers(1412AD)...........
Democr/Eman.......Ignored....................Ignored.....................
GPFarm...............Late, 2resources........Early, 2 resources.......
Gifting techs........No...........................No..........................
Bpt -1k/1AD/1kAD.15/100/450...............30/113/489..................
Academy.............370BC(Berlin).............250BC(Beijing)...................
Oxford.................680AD.....................1124AD......................
Total GPs.............16..........................14...........................
Endgame Beeline....Biolo-Compu.............Rifling-Fusion...............
After research.......12turns...................10turns.....................


Analysis: I caught up with the Contenders at around halfway into the game, but once all the cottages were villages/towns, there was nothing to pull me further ahead. Should have micromanaged better - I was somewhat sloppy.

Thank you very much for the additional data. Incredible research rates! But disappointing Oxford date. Another factor not mentioned in the table is the starting save, of course.

Are you still happy with your decision of ignoring Democracy? I am not, but since I have never researched it, I can't be sure.

I don't understand why my game had more GP than yours, when I was so slow to set up my NE. Maybe since I captured Pyramids and used Representation I hired much more specialists around the empire?

I am enjoying this discussion a lot.

 

[jesusin]

My plan from the start was a Cultural victory.
...
Another possible mistake was to avoid adopting a religion. It helped keep anyone from getting mad at me, but Organized Religion is an extremely helpful civic when you’re trying for a culture win, and I didn’t have it available.

Nice explanation of your strategy.

IMO Pacifism is as important as OrgRel.

Did you use your temple+military cities to run artists and get a couple of additional GA? How many GP did you get in the whole game?

 

[Thorrez]

Using Jesusins HoF strat as a base.

Plan
1st Legendary city
Capital fueled by palace, early cultural buildings and cottages.

2nd Legendary city
Wonder factory and late cottages (the idea was that 1 wonder is at least the same as one town so I could counter the grassland poor terrain by spaming wonders)

3rd Legendary city
GA farm (mostly bombed)

Implementation
Settled 1W, Wor-war-war-set-war-set-parth. 2nd city was the Glod/Sheep/Clam to set up an early CS-slingshot with gold-fuel research and later convert to a GA farm. 3rd, Munich, was among the hills 2W1N of the marble to be used as the wonder factory first one being Oracle in 655 BC.

GPs:
I went caste system all the way and used pacifism (gifted techs to keep the AI happy), popped 2 GPs in Munich (used the build shrines) and 15 GA total. Berlin and one city using the to ocean resources SE help with GAs. If think this went ok.

Wonders
Only managed Oracle, Chitzen Itza ans Colosus in Munich. Had some luck and both Con and Tao was founded here so the unwanted GP could at least pruduce 4 culture-shrines. Parth, ND and TM in Berlin. I am not very please with this.

Tech
I got could feet and made the detour to construction to get some phants to not make the AI have silly ideas. Generally I had to resource a lot more when I liked becase the AI was to far behind to have anything useful. Lib in 1190 with no techs bubbled. Ok I guess?

Culture buildings
Hermitage and a shrine in Minuch and 2 shrines in Berlin. I hade 6 cities and 3 religions so I could have build more temple/shrines but for once I becase lazy and I also decided the Berlin and Munich needed to work the cottaged instead of mines to get anything going. I do not know if this was stupid or not.

Conclusion
1804 is not great but given my lack of experience with cultural and end game lazyness I guess it is all right?

 

[Vynd]

Nice explanation of your strategy.

IMO Pacifism is as important as OrgRel.

Well I especially like Organized Religion because it lets you build Missionaries without Monasteries. that makes it a lot easier to spread religion around, I find. And of course 25% off all of those cultural buildings is a plus.

By comparison to Thorrez's game though, it seems like I would have done better to have focused more on Great Artists and not worried so much about cultural buildings and cottages. At least on this map.

Did you use your temple+military cities to run artists and get a couple of additional GA? How many GP did you get in the whole game?

I didn't do a particularly good job with Great People. By the time it occurred to me to try and develop secondary GP production centers their GPP pools were full of non-artist points. I generated a total of 13 Great People, and only 9 were artists, including one from Music. I was happy to get a Great Prophet and a Great Engineer early since they gave me Christianity and the Parthenon, respectively. But I generated another Engineer and a Prophet later when Artists definitely would have been better.

Another issue is that I was developing Munich as both a Legendary culture city full of cultural buildings and running it as a Great Artist pump. As I said in my first post, I don't like to do that. But in this set-up especially I realize now it was the wrong way to go.

Having Munich be my Great Artist pump and a Legendary city was fine, but trying to cram a bunch of Cathedrals in there as well was a mistake. Doing that distracted me from simply maximizing the Great Artist points there, and was a big part of why I spent so long cash rushing buildings rather than just sitting at 100% culture.

If I'd just concentrated on putting Cathedrals in Berlin and Hamburg I wouldn't have needed nearly as much cash to rush stuff, and wouldn't even have bothered settling my last city or two, which existed only to get me up to 9 temples. So I could ahve gone over to full culture much earlier, with a stronger economy, and who cares if Munich lags behind because this way I'd have been in a position to just dump all of my Great Artists there.

 

[LowtherCastle]

So I couldn't beat the challenger handicap this time. Will try harder.

Balbes, get real. The challenger handicap is for mere mortals. Not for Eptathletes. You need a real challenge.

You need the SirPleb Challenge!​

 

[da_Vinci]

I still submitted my retired game, but you're having a really bad time if you do worse than I did. I was RIGHT on track to get the culture points needed but it was always going to turn to custard if I got attacked.

I guess that means custard is a bad thing?

I suppose in the US the corresponding phrase would be "it was always going to turn to Custer if I got attacked."

dV