GOTM 27 Final Spoiler - Full World Map, Industrial Age

[Drazek]

Jason score is now available. It appears that milking paid off. My 920CE
domination with about 6400 Firaxis points (10177 Jason) is lower than 1560CE space race, 10609 Jason. Sir Pleb appears to be the only reported one who got over 11k Jason. Max score is 10759 according to the calculator.

I remember someone asserting that Jason score is bad because it favors early military victories. Aeson replied that it just seems to be so, because perhaps due to a longer play time, those games weren't played until another victory condition. It appears to be true in this case.

(edit)
Regarding best dates: 1200CE Conquest is too late compared to others.

 

[jeffd210]

Where do you find the Jason score? I see that GOTM Results link has moved, but I don't see any results yet for GOTM 26 nor for GOTM 27. Am I missing something?

 

[Dianthus]

Drazek is talking about the Jason score Calculator. You can use this to find out your own Jason score bason on your Fireaxis (or ingame) score and your victory condition/date.

 

[Drazek]

Just to be clear, the Calculator is available here

 

[jeffd210]

Thanks for the link to the Jason calculator.

I assume that the release date has changed from the 15th of each month to after the GOTM entries close, based on Drazek's announcement.

 

[Garvarg]

I wasn't thrilled with how this game ended up for me. Because I did so well two months ago going for a Diplomatic win, I thought I would try that again.
Ended in 1822 with 3032 or the Jason score of 4596. Not very impressive. I think the delay in contacting other nations and the small land mass held me up significantly.

So for fun, I replayed (after submitting)
I won this game by domination in 1814, CIv score of 4154, Jason score of 5731.
Next month I hope too choose the right victory condition early on.

 

[SirPleb]

An update of the score progression I posted earlier, with Jason scores added:

  Game    Turn    Firaxis   Jason  Projected
  Date   Number    Score    Score    Score
   950     210      7200    10918     8292
  1350     260      7632    10949    10741
  1655     321      9136    11346    12884
  2050     540     12856    11963     n/a

I used domination as the victory condition for the Jason scores. Conquest would give a higher score for 1350 and 1655 but it seems better to stay with the same condition all the way, to see what effect milking was having.

Milking sure did increase my Jason score this game! The final score seems too high, not that I should complain

It might be that this map had a larger Jason score boost possible from milking than most. It was possible to get a lot of "prime land" on this map to increase score. The Jason score allows for that by factoring in the average food yield per tile, but I don't think it can factor in the "clumpiness" of the good food tiles.

Anyway, it seems likely that even on more typical maps milking can still pay off in score, at least a bit. I'm glad, it keeps one more option open.

 

[ainwood]

Interesting observations, SirPleb!

It is worth noting though that the Jason score is still light-years ahead of the Firaxis bonus. You had to play an extra 330 turns for a 10% increase in score. In doing that, you invalidated any chance of a 'fastest-finish' type award. You also noted that you could have got a higher Jason by a conquest victory!

It probably is map-dependent, and this was a very different type of map. If you have the time, I'd like to see a comparison on a more 'normal' map.

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by ainwood
It is worth noting though that the Jason score is still light-years ahead of the Firaxis bonus.

It sure is! I think that this particular map was near being a torture test for the Jason score, and that it passes with flying colors

Originally posted by ainwood
It probably is map-dependent, and this was a very different type of map. If you have the time, I'd like to see a comparison on a more 'normal' map.

I think you're right. Next time I milk a GOTM I'll keep notes about score progression and see how it compares with this map.

 

[Justus II]

SirPleb,

I am also encouraged by your results, but from the other perspective. You pointed out that milking did increase your Jason score, (and I think it should) but only 10% over the course of over half the game (in turns, not RL). Whereas milking would have meant an increase in Firaxis score of nearly 75%. To me, this points out tha value of Jason in making milking, as you said, "another option", and not the ONLY option. I know I would feel a lot better at being edged out by a thousand points if I got domination in 1000AD vs. a milk than if I had been trounced by over 5000 (the Firaxis differential).

Of course, I would also feel a whole lot better if I had acheived domination in 1000AD to start with, but that's my problem, not the scoring system.

 

[Dianthus]

One thing that should be noted is that milking can be a lot more beneficial if, unlike SirPleb, you do badly at the start. I haven't got my notes with me, but I had a slow battle with Cavalry to take our continent, tanks to take the Vikings and Oda, then modern armour for the new world. I could have got a conquest victory in ~1850AD with a measly Jason score of ~3800. I played for a histographic (mainly because it's a victory condition I've never won by, ever!), which resulted in a Jason score of ~5900.

 

[Grotius]

Hey Dianthus, here's a belated thanks for answering all my earlier questions so thoroughly.

One question about milking: why should it be rewarded at all? I'm not saying that it's unethical to milk. I'm just wondering if milking is really any test of Civ skill that should garner any extra points. I'm not wild about missing out on bonus points simply because I lack the time or patience to milk.

Hehe, assuming milking is here to stay, do I need to download one of the "tiles-needed-to-win" utilities to milk? Conquests comes with a utility like that built-in. What should I get for these GOTM contests? Do the utilities work inside the Civ game itself, or must one exit the game?

 

[Dianthus]

Originally posted by Grotius
Hey Dianthus, here's a belated thanks for answering all my earlier questions so thoroughly.

No problem.

Originally posted by Grotius
One question about milking: why should it be rewarded at all? I'm not saying that it's unethical to milk. I'm just wondering if milking is really any test of Civ skill that should garner any extra points. I'm not wild about missing out on bonus points simply because I lack the time or patience to milk.

First, I just want to clarify that I wasn't trying to encourage milking. I didn't play until 2050AD just to get a good score. I decided beforehand to go for a histographic win because there was no medal-play stipulated win condition, and I had never won by histographic. The intention of the Jason score is to give the same points for an early win as would be gained by playing to the same standard until 2050AD. I got a dramatic increase in score because my earlier standard of play was far inferior to my later standard of play. I think SirPlebs results are pretty encouraging, a 9.5% gain in Jason score for milking is far less appealing than the 78.5% he would get with the Fireaxis score!

Originally posted by Grotius
Hehe, assuming milking is here to stay, do I need to download one of the "tiles-needed-to-win" utilities to milk? Conquests comes with a utility like that built-in. What should I get for these GOTM contests? Do the utilities work inside the Civ game itself, or must one exit the game?

There's a utility called MapStat over in the Utility Programs forum. Alternatively you could use my CRpMapStat utility program, which is part of my CIVReplay utility suite. To be honest the first program will do the job fine, Moonsinger told me to write CRpMapStat so that she could milk to the nearest tile for her Conquests HOF entry. The 1% shown in Conquest's wasn't good enough for a real diehard milker!

 

[ainwood]

Re milking:

Believe it or not, milking takes quite a lot of skill. If one of the HOF regulars and I sat down with the same save file of a game where the player had reached the domination limit, we could both milk it. But I'm sure that the HOF-ers would get a higher milked score than me!

Milking (IMO) is boring and time consuming, but it is a skill. Prior to the Jason score, if you wanted a top score in the GOTM, milking was your only option. The Jason score made it so that a well-played early finish ranked right up there with an average milked finish.

Milking then after became an option; not a necessity.

 

[Megalou]

One of the skills involved, I think, is how to make the milking less time consuming and boring. You need to set up a situation where nothing at all can happen. Then you can sit back and cruise through the ages. It's not as easy as it sounds, but mapstat helps.

 

[Grotius]

Thanks for your replies. That all sounds fair enough to me. Off to get mapstat.

BTW, ainwood, I'm really enjoying GOTM 28. Great job! I haven't finished one yet; it would be ironic if I made it to the finish line in the shortest month of the year.