GOTM 28 Spoiler 3 - Modern Age / End Game Submitted
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
This is really interesting, because in my game the Ottomans became the other superpower besides me. Does this depend on which nation we (the human player) trade important techs with? Does this mean that we should avoid trading with some nations that may become a to big treat for us in the future? Is there any other thread discussing how trading changes the outcome of the game?
IMHO it depends on your goal: if you aim for conquest, form alliances vs. the strongest civ and trade/give techs to the weaker ones. If you want fast tech progress e.g. for spaceship, I like to have a strong (not too strong) partner able to pay a lot for the techs I sell them.
CdB
Warlord
![[civ3]](/images/smilies/civ3.gif "Civ3 Icon [civ3]")
v1.29f OpenAncient Age
Unable to pack my land with cities and not wanting to spend too much time on this game I went for domination while still trying to build up a decent core and all available wonders. So basically I played without being focus that is why I am not SirPleb
1080 AD Trade from Greece : Printing Press & Incense & WM & 31 GP for (I do not remember). Steam in 8 turns and I gift it to Rome. My army is 10 Medieval Swords & 31 WE & 18 Muskets & 10 Longbows and only 14 workers but I have many slaves.
1120 AD Declare War to Vikings
1140 AD Second Leader. I could use it to change my Palace location but not the time if not abusive. So I will build another army.
1210 AD Vikings are dead.
1240 AD Babylon : MT & WM vs Navigation & Spices War to Keltoi
1260 AD Another Great Leader changed to an army.
1270 AD Germans are dead.
1280 AD Another GL to rush some improvement
1300 AD My war is in slow motion. Rome : Democracy & WM & 100 GP & 23 GPT vs Physics. Greece : WM & 111 GP & 38 GPT vs Physics and switch to Democracy now searching at 4 per turn. I should have switched to Democracy / Republic earlier. I was still in Monarchy but leading in techs.
1340 AD Rome : MT & 10 GPT & 10 GP vs Economics / Greece : Free Artistry vs Economics and rushing Shakespeares with GL and I upgrade 19 WE to cavs. Keltoi are dead around this time.
1375 AD Rome declares war against me as I was preparing some invasion force to remove their forces. Good, I have a positive WW.
1380 AD I lost 8 workers in the IBT but in my counter-attack I gain 2 towns with only 2 cavs dead. I removed 2 muskets and many legions & 1 roman cav. Roman army is trapped in my territory with Cumae now mine so I will redline it with Art before removing it. I trade Silks to Greece for WM & 4 GPT. My army is now 59 cavs & 15 Inf & 21 Muskets & 7 Art & 3 armies plus 7 Med Sword & 3 Militia & 8 WE & 30 workers most of them waiting to join the cities after hospital are built.
1400 AD I declare War to Babylon
1415 AD Greek declare war on me ! and I lose 2 former German towns
1430 AD Another leader for another army
1455 AD Domination Victory : score 4548
test_specimen
hope lost
- Joined
- May 20, 2002
- Messages
- 2,200
I replayed the game and tried a quick domination victory (it took me until the 19th century, since I have to force myself to be agressive enough and shorten the building phases). This time I did not trade at all (except for few "useless" techs, i.e. where the wonder's already built) and this time the Greeks got a lead on the other continent. But just before I eliminated them, they were in a war with Babylon, which probably would have decided which one would be surviving with me. They both had the same tech level - beginning of Industrial Age, while I was at the beginning of Modern Age.
I guess in this game it pays of if you don't trade tech with the others. (But perhaps it's only the skill level.)
CdB
Warlord
It really depends the speed you want on the techs tree. If you research all on your own, you can not benefit from the tech the AI researched, so it takes more time. But it could be what you want if you intend to focus on wonders...
So it is why when you want to go for Space, you are better to trade with some AI.
If you are for a quick domination, you can still be better with some 'limited' trading in order to get the techs you need without reseraching them. It is better to be in advance for domination (war mode) so that you can fight outdated units with your more advanced units.
Txurce
Deity
OVERVIEW
I entered the Industrial Age pursuing a 100k cultural victory, and already having conquered Persia, Carthage and Rome. My plan ws to work myself to the domination limit via the weak western end of the southern continent, saving the stronger Greeks and Ottomans as trading partners.
EXPANSION
My invasion force numbered about 20 cavalry. Since I was fighting only to keep myself entertained, I decided not to build any reinforcements. In 920 I declared war on Babylon, and made peace in 980, picking up that pesky one-tile island, and leaving Babylon with one island city. I declared war on Germany in 950, and eliminated them in 1070, picking up two leaders. In 1020 I declared war on the Vikings, and knocked them out in 1090. During this period (920-1090), I encountered only pikes and spears.
The Kelts made up my mind about whether to leave them alone when they declared war in 1080. They threw a decent amount of cavalry against my own limited mounted units, so I hung back, defending Nidaros, and picked off their exposed units, waiting until they were wiped out before invading. I proceeded slowly, taking my first Kelt city in 1170, allowing my cavalry to heal. (In 1255, after our peace treaty had expired, I took out the lone Bab island city.) I researched motorized transportation, and rushed a couple of tanks to help out my dwindling cavalry, which had been reduced to one army. The army and the two tanks finally eliminated the Kelts in 1390.
RESEARCH
Research continued at a four-turn pace throughout the Industrial Era, helped by both science wonders and the ToE. (I also acquired Universal Suffrage, Shakespeare, Hoover Dam and once the AI researched it in the Modern Age Smiths. I skipped all the optional industrial techs, including sanitation, and entered the Modern Age in 1350.
Computers were first, taking 6 turns to research. Miniaturization took 7 turns, after which I researched sanitation in 4 turns at 40%, then put the slider at zero. The Internet wonder was built in 1420.
CULTURE BUILDING
My approach was to let the working cities work, and put all my gold into rushing culutural buildings in the totally corrupt cities. Conquering to the edge of the domination limit gave me enough cities that I had plenty of existing opportunities on which to spend my gold. Greece and the Ottomans helped throughout, although neither was consistently rolling in dough. Research labs were rushed everywhere except on the home continent, home of the Internet. Hospitals went up in culturally saturated cities that had room to grow. As I eventually ran out of things to build, I built another dozen or so cities, and started to rush culture in them. At this point, I had between 1400 and 1800gpt to spend.
There was an entertaining hiccup in 1465, when Greece declared war to eliminate its debt. I razed one city to absorb its incense, and took three others which I gifted to the Ottomans, thus giving them their final contiguous borders. During this time I was forced to gift two other cities to the Ottomans in order to stay below the domination limit. Greece accepted peace in 1490.
After that, it was low-level boredom until domination was achieved in 1710. But that takes very little away from a very entertaining game.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
![[civ3mac]](/images/smilies/macciv3.gif "Mac Civ3 Icon [civ3mac]")
OPENMiddle Age Spoiler
I guess I better get mine in.
1295 AD - Bombay builds Newton's University.
1305 AD - Delhi builds Leonardo's Workshop.
Democracy established in 1340 AD.
In 1355 AD, war is declared on the Keltoi; alliance w/ Rome is signed. Keltoi destroyed in 1475 AD; captured Great Lighthouse in Keltoi campaigns; generate 2 Great Leaders, building army w/ one and rushing Universal Suffrage w/ the other; US triggers Indian Golden Age.
Persepolis builds ToE (Atomic Theory & Electronics) in 1475 AD.
1510 AD - war is declared on Germany; Germany quickly destryed after capturing Leipzig & Munich.
Persepolis builds Hoover Dam as Golden Age ends, in 1550 AD.
1555 AD - Sign MPPs w/ Ottomans & Greeks; IBT -> Rome delcares war (Ottomans & Greeks DoW Rome).
1585 AD - Babylon signs alliance w/ Rome v. Greece.
1600 AD - Babylon attck on Greece triggers MPP, bringing Indian forces to Babylon's shores.
1630 AD - Lahore builds Wall Street.1690 AD - Sign Peace treaty w/ Babylon (need marines to capture 1 tile island city) & Rome; WW was really biting me inspite of US, sliders were 3 - 4 - 3; gain Copernicus's Observatory from Babylon; Indian Balck Cats generate 4th GL.
1710 AD - Delcare war on Vikings (OCC) and destroy next turn; Delhi builds Intelligence Agency.
India enters the Modern Age in 1715 AD.
Rush UN in Delhi w/ latest GL, in 1760 AD.
Delcare war again on Babylon (OCC) in 1766 AD and destroy them.
1774 AD - Sign MPP w/ Ottomans, 2 turns later, delcare war on Rome. Romans destroyed in 1798 AD; Black Cats generate GLs #5 & #6.
Renew MPP w/ Ottomans in 1814 AD, Greece declares war in 1820 AD.
In 1824 AD - Indian forces capture Tarsus (generating 7th GL - Tilak), Argos, and Knossos.
Domination triggered in 1826 AD; Firaxis score - 3135 (Gandhi the Wise).
Enjoyed!
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Conquest ![[ptw]](/images/smilies/ptw.gif "PTW Icon [ptw]")
I entered the IA in 1380 AD. By this time I had set a spaceship launch for my goal.
I was easily maintaining a four turn research pace and was the tech leader throughout the IA.
With not a lot to build I kept building my military up, and after trying to sell techs to the Vikings and seeing that they were still in the AA, I decided they needed to be put out of their misery, and their long suffering people needed to be freed from the bonds of Despotism. I loaded up four galleons of cavs plus two muskets and positioned my fleet for dual amphibious landings next to the two Viking cities. We declared war and landed our force in 1415 AD, and the next turn the Vikings were destroyed. Brennus had his troops next to the Viking cities and must have had his eye on those cities too, because during the interturn, he declared on me.
I slowly beat back a steady stream of Celt cavalry, and eventually captured two Celt cities. They sued for peace in 1450 and I gave it to them.
In the meantime, ToE was built in Bombay (1440 AD) and Hoovers was eventually built in the capitol of Delhi in 1470 AD. I started wondering why I couldnt trade maps.
A PM to Ainwood cleared that up
I didnt have Navigation yet. 
I started to lust after Romes abundant resources and after a quick build up I launched a war against Rome in 1490 AD. By 1525 AD, Caesar is down to an 2CC, when Brennus sneak attacked me for a second time. So I quickly captured the remaining Roman cities and turned the full fury of the Indian Army on the Celts. While the going was initially slow due to a lack of troops in the former Viking lands. Things accelerated and in 1615 AD, Brennus breathed his last.
Just because I was starting to get bored with the tech race, I decided in 1635 to launch against the Germans. They had an MPP with the Ottomans, but the two civs barely slowed the Indian juggernaut. In 1655 I finally bought navigation from the Greeks and I finally had a complete map.
The mountains to the south of Germany slowed the offensive a bit, but not by much. In 1670 AD India enter the Modern Age and destroyed the Germans the next turn. The Ottomans were destroyed in 1685 AD. I researched computers the next turn and switched over all production to research labs. However realizing I still had 11 techs to build and since I was only 20 tiles from domination, I declared on the Babylonians in 1705 and captured all but their 1 tile city the next turn. Domination in 1715. Firaxis score: 3278.
Lessons learned, I shouldn't have changed horses in mid stream. I probably have a poor domination score compared to others. If I had stuck with the Spaceship I might have done much better relative to other space victories. Live and learn.
I entered the IA in 1380 AD. By this time I had set a spaceship launch for my goal.
I was easily maintaining a four turn research pace and was the tech leader throughout the IA.
With not a lot to build I kept building my military up, and after trying to sell techs to the Vikings and seeing that they were still in the AA, I decided they needed to be put out of their misery, and their long suffering people needed to be freed from the bonds of Despotism. I loaded up four galleons of cavs plus two muskets and positioned my fleet for dual amphibious landings next to the two Viking cities. We declared war and landed our force in 1415 AD, and the next turn the Vikings were destroyed. Brennus had his troops next to the Viking cities and must have had his eye on those cities too, because during the interturn, he declared on me.
I slowly beat back a steady stream of Celt cavalry, and eventually captured two Celt cities. They sued for peace in 1450 and I gave it to them.
In the meantime, ToE was built in Bombay (1440 AD) and Hoovers was eventually built in the capitol of Delhi in 1470 AD. I started wondering why I couldnt trade maps.
A PM to Ainwood cleared that up
I didnt have Navigation yet. I started to lust after Romes abundant resources and after a quick build up I launched a war against Rome in 1490 AD. By 1525 AD, Caesar is down to an 2CC, when Brennus sneak attacked me for a second time. So I quickly captured the remaining Roman cities and turned the full fury of the Indian Army on the Celts. While the going was initially slow due to a lack of troops in the former Viking lands. Things accelerated and in 1615 AD, Brennus breathed his last.
Just because I was starting to get bored with the tech race, I decided in 1635 to launch against the Germans. They had an MPP with the Ottomans, but the two civs barely slowed the Indian juggernaut. In 1655 I finally bought navigation from the Greeks and I finally had a complete map.
The mountains to the south of Germany slowed the offensive a bit, but not by much. In 1670 AD India enter the Modern Age and destroyed the Germans the next turn. The Ottomans were destroyed in 1685 AD. I researched computers the next turn and switched over all production to research labs. However realizing I still had 11 techs to build and since I was only 20 tiles from domination, I declared on the Babylonians in 1705 and captured all but their 1 tile city the next turn. Domination in 1715. Firaxis score: 3278.
Lessons learned, I shouldn't have changed horses in mid stream. I probably have a poor domination score compared to others. If I had stuck with the Spaceship I might have done much better relative to other space victories. Live and learn.
Caesar of Rome
Chieftain
Open PTW 1.27
Defended against Persia, and waited out the iron free age. Eventually Carthage traded iron. Didn't need horses. We Indians use elephants.
Progressively worked down Persia in a number of short wars. Eventually won Persepolis and built FP and all culture items.
Decided on a final push to clear Persia from our island but was a little slow suffering lost army and other setbacks.
I missed seeing Persepolis move to civil unrest, but next turn rebalanced things. There were mostly indian happy faces smiling at me. I was gutted when turn after next, Persopolis flipped. I lost my FP to Persia with only three? other cities left.
Used cash to rebuild. Very expensive, built new FP in Persepolis and sized up Carthage.
Traded Alu with Carthage on the turn I completed Synthetic fibres paying 3Lux and 100g per turn. Immediately upgraded 40 tanks and set about building a few more as I positioned to take control of an Alu source.
Rolled through half of Carthage, then started shipping armies across to tackle Greece. Set off by myself, and then invited Babylon along. This protected my back door and with great good fortune brough the Celts in on my side because or their MPP with Babylon.
It's a struggle to stay at war and keep the people happy even with USuf.
I was after domination, but with some great producing cities and even the ironworks, I was suddenly en route for Space race victory. Researched Superconductor and changed some productions round. Last three parts of rocket completed same day. Just-in-time delivery.
Not a great score, but a most satisfying outcome after Persepolis set back.
Defended against Persia, and waited out the iron free age. Eventually Carthage traded iron. Didn't need horses. We Indians use elephants.
Progressively worked down Persia in a number of short wars. Eventually won Persepolis and built FP and all culture items.
Decided on a final push to clear Persia from our island but was a little slow suffering lost army and other setbacks.
I missed seeing Persepolis move to civil unrest, but next turn rebalanced things. There were mostly indian happy faces smiling at me. I was gutted when turn after next, Persopolis flipped. I lost my FP to Persia with only three? other cities left.
Used cash to rebuild. Very expensive, built new FP in Persepolis and sized up Carthage.
Traded Alu with Carthage on the turn I completed Synthetic fibres paying 3Lux and 100g per turn. Immediately upgraded 40 tanks and set about building a few more as I positioned to take control of an Alu source.
Rolled through half of Carthage, then started shipping armies across to tackle Greece. Set off by myself, and then invited Babylon along. This protected my back door and with great good fortune brough the Celts in on my side because or their MPP with Babylon.
It's a struggle to stay at war and keep the people happy even with USuf.
I was after domination, but with some great producing cities and even the ironworks, I was suddenly en route for Space race victory. Researched Superconductor and changed some productions round. Last three parts of rocket completed same day. Just-in-time delivery.
Not a great score, but a most satisfying outcome after Persepolis set back.
Txurce
Deity
I believe there's wheat on that tile, which shouldn't mean much to the AI. I picked off that city as part of peace with Babylon, once they were down to two cities - that one, and their latest capital on ther island next door. I had units threatening the capital, and that probably helped. I also didn't raze any of their cities or otherwise antagonize them (besides declaring war, of course).
Txurce
Deity
I have a question directed at just about everyone who's posted in this spoiler so far: why did you wait until the industrial age to begin serious expansion?
dojoboy
Tsalagi
War weariness set in hard during my Babylonian/Roman War. Since I needed marines to capture Babylon's last city, I settled for peace across the board to regroup (massing troops for a Roman conquest). Additionally, I can't seem to shake my builder instincts, which also affects my resistance to switching to a government more accomodating for war. Furthermore, once rivals have infantrymen, I'm hesistant to go forth w/ cavalrymen as my best offensive unit, prefer tanks at this point.
Caesar of Rome
Chieftain
It took a long time to reliably have more than six luxuries. Couldn't grow and fight Persia. Once imports were possible had to trade tech for lux. Importing iron, then horses, then aluminium made it necessary to choose the date, the battlefield and the enemy with care. Initially it wasn't easy to draw others into the war.
I didn't post yet.
Started invasion on Carthaginian mainlands about 580AD. (Destroy Persia 680AD.) Capture Carthage w Great Lighthouse 680AD. Declare war on Rome 960AD and capture about half of Roman territory by the time we enter Industrial Ages in 1100AD.CdB
Warlord
I started in the middle ages with Carthage & Persia & Ottomans & Germany.
I used the MA & GA to bring up infrastructure in towns.
I hand-built most of the wonders because I like to have them
so it diverted lot of shields...Main reason is that I was not focus on full military nor a precise goal... so i played the game without real hurry.
After the initial wars with Persia that needed a careful plan I went easy on the rest of the game not trying to beat any dead-line. Just building a decent force and then attacking with SOD so that I will not have any surprise.
Grotius
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 409
<< I have a question directed at just about everyone who's posted in this spoiler so far: why did you wait until the industrial age to begin serious expansion? >>
Expansion? What expansion?
This was my first-ever win on Monarch, and I eked out a diplomatic victory just by trading desperately to stay almost even with the leaders in tech, by being pathetically nice to everyone, and by fighting Xerxes to a standstill in 3 wars. I won the game owning only my original 9 or 10 cities. Heh.
Expansion? What expansion?
This was my first-ever win on Monarch, and I eked out a diplomatic victory just by trading desperately to stay almost even with the leaders in tech, by being pathetically nice to everyone, and by fighting Xerxes to a standstill in 3 wars. I won the game owning only my original 9 or 10 cities. Heh.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "serious" expansion.
In my game I launched against the Persians about halfway through the MA and took all of Carthage in two different wars.
Because I was thinking spaceship I delayed taking Rome and the rest. I suppose if I had kept one strategy throughout the game, I would have taken Persia and Carthage much earlier.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
I'm at work so cannot post my end-game report until later this evening, but I wanted to comment on the question posed by Txurce.
1. Some types of game will hinder fast military conquest e.g. OCC or 20K and others.
2. The point you realise that you will not be able to build swords or horses will determine what shape you are in to take on Persia.
3. Fear of the Persian Immortals.
4. The inability to upgrade to elephants.
5. Lack of confidence in executing an archer rush (as distinct from 3)
6. Map an contact tech requirements being moved to later in the game.
7. Playing style.
8. Playing ability.
9. Tactics (Sir Pleb is the obvious example).
10. Random differences due to PRNG draw down. In other words "sh1t happens" and may prevent early expansion.
Most of the accounts I have read have been of Killing Persia in the AA with archers, or with cavalry in the early IA. Maybe the limiting factor is that elephants had to be built from scratch and Persia by this time would have Pikes. I also suspect that Persia was "played" with and was able to research faster than at least some of the other civs. If this is true, it may have been a mechanism to allow a player to maintain tech parity in the event that some random event prevented contacts being made.. particularly in light of communications trading being moved to PP. Maybe I'm reading too much into the game, but I hope not.
In any event, it is clear from the posting that getting rid of Xerses before he got iron hooked up was a whole lot easier than afterwards.
1. Some types of game will hinder fast military conquest e.g. OCC or 20K and others.
2. The point you realise that you will not be able to build swords or horses will determine what shape you are in to take on Persia.
3. Fear of the Persian Immortals.
4. The inability to upgrade to elephants.
5. Lack of confidence in executing an archer rush (as distinct from 3)
6. Map an contact tech requirements being moved to later in the game.
7. Playing style.
8. Playing ability.
9. Tactics (Sir Pleb is the obvious example).
10. Random differences due to PRNG draw down. In other words "sh1t happens" and may prevent early expansion.
Most of the accounts I have read have been of Killing Persia in the AA with archers, or with cavalry in the early IA. Maybe the limiting factor is that elephants had to be built from scratch and Persia by this time would have Pikes. I also suspect that Persia was "played" with and was able to research faster than at least some of the other civs. If this is true, it may have been a mechanism to allow a player to maintain tech parity in the event that some random event prevented contacts being made.. particularly in light of communications trading being moved to PP. Maybe I'm reading too much into the game, but I hope not.
In any event, it is clear from the posting that getting rid of Xerses before he got iron hooked up was a whole lot easier than afterwards.
Txurce
Deity
I asked about why many others waited until the industrial age to begin serious expansion because this is where my overall game often doesn't move as well as I'd like. In this game, lack of resources and contacts work to slow down the building of infrastructure, and the possibility of developing a civ that can research quickly while expanding at the same time is tough. But it seems that the faster I expand, the faster I'll be able to research - even if I temporarily fall behind on infrastructure and research while expanding. Even in a game like this one, where India was hamstrung early on by having to fight without multiple luxuries (or iron in the AA), it seems like taking Persia first, and then building infrastructure, will get us to even a non-military victory quicker than the more "balanced" approach. Another way of stating this is that, as I play, a balanced, multi-focused approach feels right... but looking back, I often wish that I had just hit my neighbors quicker, expanded to two cores asap, and then focused on infrastructure.
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