GOTM 38: Spoiler 2.

[Offa]

Having to admit to myself that I wasn't going to finish this game in time, I started reading this thread and found these:

In an attempt to settle this old score, I looked at the result table of the Classic GOTM25. To my surpirse, after reading this, I found Offa on place 18, with a good domination win, 9775 jason points and not a green ambulance in sight....

So, now I'm curious, where did you find GOTM results which had Offa winning the Green Ambulance in GOTM25, Qwerty? I used the top left menu, and chose 'GOTM results'. When you select Classic GOTM25 and press 'Go' it shows the official results, as they are used to compile things like the Pantheon and the GPR.

It wasn't me that won the coveted green ambulance, but someone else called dogbone. My only connection is that I noticed the odd result when it came out and wrote to the staff about it. I think it was back in the days when results took months to come out, and so it appears no action was taken. I was mainly amused that the staff at the time said they were clamping down on reloaders etc etc but were apparantly happy for an obviously daft result to appear. There was no suggestion at all of malpractice here, just of a stuff up.

"dogbone 9999 1000 Histographic Loss 4949 0:00:51 "

Really you would need to be very quick to play to 1000ad in 51 seconds, and even then you wouldn't get a histographic loss.

I am pretty reassured that Qwertysoft found the same anomaly as it implies that this is a rare event.

 

[a space oddity]

A-hah, right. I see.

-note to self- Start reading those posts more carefully before jumping into action and conclusions....

In defense of the former admins, you have to realise that all the game checking and result compiling was done by hand. By opening save after save. In those days the number of participants was sky-rocketing, so frankly I'm not surprised that some mistakes were made. The extra burden of having to look for signs of unfair behaviour just added to the workload, so, yes, it may be ironic that daft results were allowed to appear in result tables but IMHO not strange.

Back on the topic of that save itself. Like Qwerty said it's a save of turn 1 and no other saves of this player are present on the server, so that game will probably have to be removed. (It'll mean good news for gerdy, but I want us to do some further QA before making any adjustements. )

 

[AlanH]

I am pretty reassured that Qwertysoft found the same anomaly as it implies that this is a rare event.

Since then our systems have changed dramatically, and the results and save files are pretty well untouched by human hand. If there's any stuff up nowadays it's because I screwed up the programming, which would probably affect multiple results. That's becoming less likely as time goes on and no one spots any anomalies. The only one I know of was the mix-up we've had occasionally between 20K and 100K victory conditions, and that's hoepfully been fixed with the latest version of the submission system.

 

[Denniz]

@AlanH: any thoughts about adding a Pantheon(sp?) of the Almost-as-Heroic for the highest scoring and ambulance awards? I remember someone talking about a race for the "Golden Cow" award for getting one of each. It might be fun.

 

[MOTH]

Arrrr, I experienced a terrible system crash with 10 turns to go. I just put my hard drive into another computer, but now I cannot load my save files. I think it is because my old computer was windows 98 se, and this one is windows 2000. I'm not sure what to do about it. Can any civ fanatic help me with this problem?

You may have to reinstall and re-patch your Civ Game on your new machine to get everything where its expected. I assume that your save files are on your D drive or something like that. Place them back in you C drive. I have moved save files between W98 and XP in the past.

You second post sounds like you need some windows updates. There are mal-ware programs that cause the behaviour you describe (re-booting every minute or so.)

You might try the "computer forum" down below Off Topic or maybe the Tech Support forum a few up from GOTM. as well.

Good Luck.

 

[solenoozerec]

@AlanH: any thoughts about adding a Pantheon(sp?) of the Almost-as-Heroic for the highest scoring and ambulance awards? I remember someone talking about a race for the "Golden Cow" award for getting one of each. It might be fun.

I think making a few more awards is fun. My own suggestion was to make transitional awards, like "fastest conquest ever", "golden cow" would be the highest base score ever, in this case.
For example Bradleyfeanor got his domination in 50BC, if it was indeed the fastest domination ever, then he would proudly keep an award until someone will succeed to make it even earlier.

 

[AlanH]

@AlanH: any thoughts about adding a Pantheon(sp?) of the Almost-as-Heroic for the highest scoring and ambulance awards? I remember someone talking about a race for the "Golden Cow" award for getting one of each. It might be fun.

I did say I'd have a look at it after the holiday season excesses wore off. I confess I've not discussed it with the rest of the staff yet, and my head is still a little fuzzy

 

[Renata]

This part of the staff thinks it's a lovely idea, as long as she doesn't have to do any of the work.

Back to the [COTM09-player-civ]!

Renata

 

[Jove]

Arrrr, how about a 'buggiest computer' award. I had 225 viruses between 2 hard drives. Top that. And thanks, Moth.
Back to the game. I entered the MA in 130AD, at the beginning of my war with the Greeks. In 210 I started what was to become the greatest forestry effort I've ever had in a GOTM- pretty much every square in the world got planted and chopped in the service of my culture 100k ambitions. Kinda made me wish for a mod that allows a player to see which tiles can still be chopped. Anyway, the war with Greece went as expected, my MI just crushing them, and I took them down to one city.
By the end of this war, around 400, I was pretty broke. I traded all my contacts, got the freshest techs, and wrote a careful budget for my war with Babylon. Things started happening fast. Egypt was becoming a science monster, but with Navigation coming out I could trade all my lux and keep up.
The war with Babylon began in 590 AD. It didn't go that well. I had a good number of MI, but no riders to avoid a GA, and too few pikemen. I attacked the chokepoint and foolishly marched my army as far into Babylon as I could get. The counterattack was more than I expected, and lots of units were just wiped out. All I had to do was wait one turn to draw out the Babs, or else just have more pikemen. Darn. I wasn't stopped, but I was slowed down, a mistake that I'm sure pushed back my victory date.
In 630 a GL appeared. I had to choose between a palace (my cities were so crowded I didn't dare a palace jump) and JS Bach's on the home continent. I chose JS Bachs. It still seems like the right thing to do, however I didn't see another GL until 1275! So my second core didn't start until then, really a shame, I'm absolutely positive that pushed back my victory date. Oh well.
Due to my military setback, I went ahead and started my GA at 720. I had a lot of marketplaces at home by this time, so it was pretty fruitful for a one-core GA.
In 830 I traded into the Industrial Age. I was astonished to see that no one had Steam Power. Greece was still around, so I gifted them into the IA and Bingo! Steam Power. I trade him all luxes and resources and techs to get it, plus 192gpt, and keep the deal 20 turns to save my rep. Then I wiped 'em out.
In 990 I destroyed the last Bab city in a futile attempt to get a GL. The domination guys were long done by this time, but I still had a very thin army due to my cultural focus.
At this point I had to decide who to attack next. The Vikings were weakest, but the Japanese had some nice lux. In 1150 Egypt decided for my by landing a lone cavalry in Bab lands. This began what will be remembered as the yoink! wars. I landed 10 galleons of troops on Egypt's north border, including 8 riflemen for protection. I didn't count on the Iroquois and Japanese declaring war on me instantly. Don't these other civs understand I just want to be left alone? So my 8 riflemen got wiped out by the ROP-over-railroads cavalry forces of 3 nations. And many cavalry besides. I was still able to get a beachead, declare peace with the Egyptians, take rubber and oil from the Iroquois (yoink!) and make peace, take 2 lux and Leonardo's from Japan (yoink!) and declare peace. I wouldn't say my army was sclerotic, but it was anemic, and I couldn't fight elimination wars. But I did get what I wanted. Unfortunately, Egypt re-declared war and over-ran my beachhead (due to, guess what, not enough defensive units) to gain a rubber resource, and within 3 turns they were up to 45 infantry. Drat. I took all their furs (yoink!) and make peace, and took the Vikings incence and declared peace. I had many GLs in this period, got Hoovers, Iron Works, Wall Street out of them. TOA was built on a prebuild.
I just kept on like this. In 1450 the fragile Japanese were destroyed. At this time the Iroquois were being hollowed out, and the Egyptians were the only threat left. I built up my forces and prepared for a massive rop abuse against Egypt. 5500 years of keeping my treaties and now I change! Talk about an ancient Chinese secret. I did massive conscription and flooded Cleo's land with conscripts to take out all resources and as many productive tiles as possible. Maybe 25 artillery, 20 infantry, lots of cav, and finally 3 tanks holed up outside Thebes. Trading for Motorized Transport with Egypt was the moment I waited for to attack. I kept the deal one turn, and started blasting. Those conscripts are great- they don't last long, but in no time Egypt had no tanks, very few cav, and the families back home all got a free coffin and a machine-signed portait of Mao. Without resources, pretty soon Egypt had so many guerrillas I couln't tell if I was fighting Cleopatra or Jane Goodall. I had so much culture that even occupying Thebes for 20 turns didn't cause any flips. I only had 3 the whole game, but I was going culture 100k after all.
In 1625 my war with Egypt was finally done, I was finally at the Dom limit, and I could finally start my end game. My old computer didn't like the conscript-and-draft routine, and crashed over and over, if my files look funny, Ainwood, that's the reason. In 1685, with 87960 culture, spyware caused an OS meltdown. I yoinked my hard drive and crossed the finish line in 1730, with 6050 base points, 7547 Firaxis points. And there's still a whole day left!
In retrospect, I liked my dense city placement for a culture 100k game. It just gave me that many more places to build cheap culture with temples and libraries. Everything else is marked up.
I think I was counter productive in my cultural focus. Here's some milestones:
350AD- +103 culture per turn
1210 +335 cpt (2nd core started around 1270)
1305 +400 cpt
1335 +500 cpt
1455 +702 cpt
1535 +814 cpt
1570 + 900 cpt
1730 ~1365 cpt (victory date)
It took until 1210 to get up to 300. In the last 100 turns I increased that by 1000 cpt. I can't help but think that maybe sacrificing 50 cpt around 0AD to build the kind of army that wipes out civs would get me to the domination limit and the end of fighting wayyyy sooner, and I'd more than make it up in the end-game buildup. The conclusion is, my end date is quite beatable. I won't hold my breath for a medal. But I had a great time on this one, And overcame all obstacles to finally submit another game! Congrats to all who completed this one!

 

[WillowBrook]

Nice job, Jove! And the write-up was fun to read.

 

[Redbad]

@Jove
I concur with WillowBrook: nice reading
And I'm sorry to confirm that you indeed won't get an award: I emphasized on culture after the bab-bashing and never visited the other continent. I ended with 100K in 1600AD with J8054 and F6204.

 

[Jove]

@Redbad: Yoink! Nice one!
Glad you liked it, Willowbrook!

 

[DJMGator13]

I just completed a 1550AD Space launch, did not have time to take notes.

This was a tweener game, around 650AD I couldn't decide whether to finish it off with a pre1000AD domination or to pursue space. I could have acheived a better date had I decided to go for space before eliminating Greece, Babylon and Japan. Although this gave me 7 luxes and a very nice 2nd core it could not make up for a slow "tech" start. But it was a fun.

 

[civ_steve]

1.27f

Ancient Age Report

After not finishing COTM7, I really wanted to finish this game. I entered the MidAges around 310 BC, focusing on running a 20K game, with maybe an offshoot to Diplo if time ran out. So far I just had the Great Library, Palace, Temple and Library in my capital city of Beijing, so not a whole lot of culture building up yet.

Even with the Great Library, I wanted to be fairly aggressive in the Tech Race. When someone else completed Hanging Gardens, I switched over to Great Wall, and completed it in 50 BC, triggering my Golden Age. I'd gotten the 3 first tier MidAges Techs from the Great Library, and rather than sit around waiting for Theology to drop in my lap, I used the GA to research it quickly so I could get Sistine Chapel out during my GA. I saved money for a while doing minimal research on Education; once I had enough Gold saved to rush a Cathedral and University later on, I turned research back on and actually clobbered my own Great Library effect (but not before I got Invention for free as well.) Then on to Music Theory. I finished Sistine Chapel near the end of my GA (300 AD ish), and rushed Cathedral and University on successive turns (disbanding a non-useful unit to reduce the cost of rushing.)

I used Leo's as a pre-build for JS Bach's, slowing down research towards the end so the AI couldn't use cheaper research on it to cascade a wonder pre-build to it. Once Leo's was complete, I finished Music Theory and switched over in to JS Bach's in 1 turn. No other AI was able to switch their pre-builds.

So far, so good. Here's the point where I could have really used a GL! Without one, Babylon learned Astronomy, and got started on Copernicus' Observatory, and there wasn't much I could do about it. I finished JSBach's, but couldn't stop Babylon from completeing CopObs, so I missed out on that Wonder.

FP was built brick by brick in Tatung, near the Gem mountains and floodplains to the South. Finally finished around 600 AD.

GL's were hard to come by, especially early on when I didn't have Horses and had Swords on Hoplites. It took 2 rounds but I did eliminate the Greeks during the Middle Ages right around the time I finished JS Bach's, roughly 600 AD. I had a very brief war with Babylon, which secured a Dye for me, and took his one source of Iron away. I zoomed towards TofG, and started on Newton's. I entered the Industrial Era in 800 AD, and finished Newton's in 830.

I think a fast industrialization of the empire is beneficial to the 20K game, so Steam Power and Industrialism are learned back to back. Babylon is also IA (and we're slightly ahead of the other continent), but I've been in the 2nd war with Hammurabi for a while - he got Medicine upon entering the IA. I've worked my way down the continent, and am breaking towards the East and Babylon proper when I finally get a GL! (870 AD, my first one!) He is rushed back to Beijing; after rushing Factory and Coal Plant, he is used to Hurry Smith's (930 AD), taking it away from the AI. I then go back to research Free Artistry, and an industrialized Beijing finish's Shakespeare's Theatre in 1010 AD, and UnivSuff 1160 AD or so. I would control when the Wonders were completed from here out; that first GL gained me Smith's also, which I don't think I'd have completed otherwise.

Warfare: Babylon and I had several rounds. I finished round 1 to be sure I could keep the Dye - Iron city. Round 2 finished when my Riders stared facing Riflemen (and War Weariness was becoming a significant factor.) Round 3 completed when my Cavalry started facing Infantry (Yikes! We need artillery support!). Round 4 saw combined arms (Infantry, Cavarly and Artillery) just roll over the remaining Babs cities. I drove their Infantry down to 1 HP, and used Elite units to try for GLs and I got two more; one to form an Army and one rushed Seti Project.

Egypt made herself a target by allying with Babylon against me! This was during Round 2, when she couldn't evern reach me! I quickly got the rest of the 3rd continent allied against her, and eventually she was gone (it took more than 20 turns, so I could exit these alliances and not take any Rep Hits.) The Iroqouis were a major trading partner, giving me 4 luxuries and lots of gpt for a couple of Techs, usually. It got funny later on when Hiawatha would demand a luxury from me - "Give me Dyes or else I'll clean you off the planet!" I gave into those demands instantaneously - otherwise I'd be losing 4 luxuries and upwards of 300 to 400 gpt!!!! I wasn't at all concerned about the military side, but I didn't want to upset the trading cart.

I'd usually get allies at the beginnings of these wars with Babylon. Look at this: the Vikings actually took a Babylon city with Berzerks!

I've never seen proof of the Vikings doing their Berzerk Amphib thing in any of the games I've played. They really were short on resources - I gifted them a Luxury to keep them happy most of the time (and invited them into Alliances.) However, they got uppity, and DoW on the Iroqouis. No more Vikings shortly after that.

The Iroqouis became very powerful. Eventually they did in the Aztecs as well, leaving just them and the Japanese. I eventually did in the Bablyons. After that I kept it simple, building what need to get built, and as much cultural buildings in Beijing as I could do. I actually never built Beijing a Hospital, when it became available (very late IndAge); I was very time crunched and didn't want to rearrange the citizens of the adjacent cities; as it was the only Wonders I didn't build were MilAcad and BatMed.

Finished UN around 1570 AD, but kept going. Most cities were building Wealth. Iroqouis started Manhattan project before me, but I beat them to it. I wondered if they might be able to nuke me, so I built Sam's and SDI. He did get Satellites (and strategic Nuke ability) maybe 2-3 turns before I won, so he didn't have much of a chance for a nuclear attack (if he was planning one). Achieved 20K win in 1824 AD, 4810 Firaxis and 5694 Jason.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Predator

I submitted just a few hours before the deadline on this one. Since it is so late in the run of the game, I don’t think I will write a detailed post. I will say this: I wish I had realized that, given the game-award layout, SirPleb would likely be going for domination.

I went for domination too, and of course my strategy was not nearly as insightfully planned as his. I self-built the pyramids around 1200bc, but failed to build enough workers (as Wacken has pointed out the importance of in the last few games). I will not make that mistake again. In the ancient age, I built a force of warriors for upgrade to swords (around 35 that eventually became Med. Inf.). Although these were sufficient to kill the greeks and babylonians, casualties were very high and most of the force was destroyed. In result, I was behind on constructing libraries, and my unit support costs ran up too high for my little Republic. As SirPleb showed in his game, it was much better to build libraries (and some other infrastructure buildings) and then move directly to horses/riders.

This was a very frustrating game. Rather than setting up a palace jump like I usually do, I thought it would be safe to wait for a leader in this game to establish my second core, since I would be fighting a lot and we were militaristic. Well, several hundred elite victories later—literally, not figuratively—I realized that might not be the case. I actually thought there was something wrong with my game until two turns before the end, when, of course, I got two leaders in a row. Therefore I never had a second core of cities. Also, even though I kept the other continent in a state of constant warfare, no cities ever changed hands. The big continent moved very quickly on research, and they flawlessly followed the path I was taking. For instance, the Aztecs got Astronomy in 5 turns and Navigation in 4, both on the turn after I researched them. As a result, I fought against mostly pikes and Samurai when I finally got over there.

Although I entered the MA in 630bc, I didn’t get navigation until 340ad—much too late. This was partially because I took a detour to get Invention since I needed Leonardo’s. I reached domination in 640ad, which isn’t a bad date. But I can certainly see my many errors when looking at Sir Pleb’s game post. That one was a real strategic beauty!

 

[akots]

... I submitted just a few hours before the deadline on this one. ...

I got mine in less than 2 hours but more than 1 hour before the deadline.

And Mark (if only Mark) beats me to Conquest by 3 turns.
@Mark
@myself
@bradley: You are not the only one to make stupid mistakes.

But the score was rather decent, >11K Jason, so cannot be completely bad.

 

[CKS]

Achieved 20K win in 1824 AD, 4810 Firaxis and 5694 Jason.

Well, phooey. I'd rather expected you to beat my date, but I was hoping to keep the lowest score. I see two main differences in our games that affect the 20K date. You used Beijing, while I'm too chicken, and you got railroads and factories before free artistry. I hadn't even thought about this. I've just recently realized how much difference factories and coal plants make. I'm going to try to find time to go back and replay the end of the middle ages to see how this would have affected my game. While my peak shield production wasn't that great, having it earlier might have helped. Probably not as much as the 3 GL I got between 650 and 1050, though.

I also need to work on pushing my tech pace. I spent a lot of time building nothing while I researched into the modern age. I needed to do more trading, I think. Instead of worrying about what the AI will do with what I trade them, I should worry what I'll gain.

 

[Niklas]

Welcome Niklas And thanks for a very interesting read. You're on a fast learning curve

AlanH, thanks a lot, and Redbad too.
The "fast learning curve" has a lot to do with finding this site I reckon...

I've now read the brilliant article on warfare by Cracker, so GOTM39, here I come!

 

[civ_steve]

... I see two main differences in our games that affect the 20K date. You used Beijing, while I'm too chicken, and you got railroads and factories before free artistry. ...

Probably better would be to use a coastal city with good production (20+ useable shields at size 12 in AA) and see if Colossus and Great Library could both be built. I used Beijing for too long in establishing my initial core. I learned the power of Railroads in the recent Portugal COTM. Once you've gotten Sistine Chapel, JS Bach's and Copernicus' Obs out of the way, the later MidAge Wonders have a good shot at being picked up by an Industrialized 20K city.

While my peak shield production wasn't that great, having it earlier might have helped.

I peaked at 65 spt. I built all the remaining Great Wonders and Small Wonders except MilAcad and Battlefield Med. Finishing the later Wonders earlier will take a few turns off; getting additional AA Wonders takes 10's of turns off!

I also need to work on pushing my tech pace.

Yes. You definitely don't want to be waiting for a Wonder to build! The IA only has 3 GWs; in part that's why I like to go back and build Shakespeare's. I also developed the Iroqouis into a great trading partner, which helped me push my research along; their funding and luxuries kept my research at 100% for the later 2 eras.