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GOTM Techniques, Cheats, Rules & Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by starlifter, Jul 16, 2002.

  1. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    Wow, this thread is still doing its intended purpose! Its great to see so many still playing, and some new (to me, that is) faces!! It will take a while to read it all. The big changes I see no trade rehoming is allowed, and the FCT is now allowed! Interesting! :D

    Depends heavily on the Game Turn, # Turns, and current score! There is not a set number.
     
  2. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    This occurred if I had no availble trade commodities and waited about 45 sec and this screen popped up. It allowed me to get Salt when none was available!
     
  3. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    What is supposed to happen depends on circumstance.

    #1: No commodity available because Trade not discovered yet: cannot produce a caravan (or obviously a freight), so you cannot get this screen.

    #2: Post-trade: If no Commodity is available, then a Caravan/Freight will be produced and placed in the city, with a commodity choice option popup window offered that lists only Food as an option. The Caravan/Freight produced will be Food, if none of the three commodities are available.

    I used MGE 5.4.0f & tested, which seems to confirm my above 2 options; what version are you using?

    THEN... I went back and tried something different. I let a city making Hides, but the other 2 commodities fulfilled, produce a Freight. The screen came up offering me the choice of Hides or Food... I chose neither, & just waited. After about a minute, the screen closed and went to the next city (still between turns). When the turn was finished cycling through the cities, I looked at the city which made that offer... and expected to see a Hides Freight, since that radio button was selected when the choice screen abruptly timed out and disappeared. Or maybe a Food Freight. But .... drumroll... it was a Cloth Freight! Cloth the first supply commodity in the status screen, but it was fulfilled! No city in the game demanded Cloth, and many supplied it.

    Further, in some test runs, the "default" time never expired, and the popup window never closed (after 15 minutes, that is). Sometimes, it closed in ~1 minute, then I got Cloth. Other times, the game crashed to desktop. It seems like a buggy section of code.
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    There has been a discussion of this on the forums before. As far as I can recall the conclusion was that this is a bug in some versions.
     
  5. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    It does not work consistently, but when it does (based on very limited testing), the <nil> seems to produce the 1st supply commodity. I've obtained a wine now, using this "Valuna Freight" (named in your honor, as the discoverer as far as I know). I'm not yet 100% sure that the city is really giving a fulfilled commodity yet; I've run about 10 iterations, and some cities are opening up the commodities at the same time the freights are produced. But circumstantially, I think the game is actually giving the 1st listed supply commodity, fulfilled or not, as listed on the turn of production (which seems not necessarily the same as what was listed at the end of the preceeding turn).

    I'm out of time to look at it more, but if it pans out, it could be used as an exploit, and will go into the techniques list if it can be used to produce goods that should in fact be withheld (e.g., that are in parenthesis as already fulfilled). Good work in noticing and posting it! :)

    While writing this, the 5th crash to desktop in 10 tests just occurred, LOL...
     
  6. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    I'm using Civ2 Multiplayer Gold Edition: v1.3 (US)
    I posted this earliear, my impressions was people didnt believe it could occur if you had an up to date version, but my memory is nitoresly faulty
     
  7. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    If you or anyone should locate a link, please post. We should definitely identify it, and determine its limitations (e.g., if it is 5.0.4g only, or whatever). I can confirm it can happen in MGE Gold 5.4.0f, but I do not yet see the exact set of underlying circumstances to make in happen predictibly. It does not seem to work just by producing a Freight in a city with commodity #1 already fulfilled, then simply waiting at the popup selection window, and getting the <nil> offer. But when the <nil> offer comes, every time (3 so far) it gives me whatever commodity is listed first, despite its being fulfilled and despite it not appearing on the popup menu offer. :) Often, the game crashes before my turn come to me, but since it takes so long, I'm usually in the other room, and not watching the screen for what the game was doing exactly at the crash. I come back, and Civ 2 is closed (crashed, in Win XP, SP2 that is).
     
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    LordValuna is right. It was he who posted this the last time around in Dec 2002. I did remember the post but not the poster till I did a search. It happens to be #69 (also see 77) on this thread.
     
  9. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    That is right in this very thread! Thanks Ali Ardavan. I posted LordValuna's original post in the quote... it seems he identified it in detail 4 years ago, but nothing really came of it.

    I'm putting in the main list. Clearly, this is not cool to do, especially with rehoming of trade units disallowed. However, as a practical game quirk to exploit... it seems very time-consuming and unreliable to get the <nil> menu. But... once you got that <nil>, you will get the F/C, with the commodity listed in the #1 trade slot, fulfilled or not.

    My personal opiniojn: as a heavy trader, I'd consider this an unfair advantage to exploit, particularly since the <nil> menu announces itself, and gives you the option to back out of it. If it happens on accident (as if people sit and stare at trade questions for a long time between turns accidently), then just hit reconsider. To use it could, in some circumstances, give a big advantage to those that trade, specifically if a city has no supply goods at the moment, or a highly valuable commodity is repeated when not normally offered.

    [This has been added as #34]
     
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Last night before going to bed I tried this and left the computer. I checked it soon after getting out of bed and nothing had happened. I tried a couple of more times in the morning again to no avail.

    This is definitely a bug and may not be present in all versions.
     
  11. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    What version did you try, Ali Ardavan?
     
  12. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    I vaguely remember trying Valuna's trick on my own back then and it not working, and your version question makes me think there is something there. The MGE version is built a little differently to handle multiple players, such that some things do time out and move on where Classic/2.42 will wait forever for user input. I ran into that a few times playing MGE when the city scrolling is running - if you do not click within the timeout it moves on. It sounds like this might be another instance of that. I will run a few more tests this weekend with Classic, but my guess is this will turn out to be a Multi-Player version issue.
     
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Starlifter, I tried it on the only version I have: single player on Mac. I did another test right before this response again to no avail.

    ElephantU, your explanation (the only one so far) makes perfect sense.
     
  14. Ace

    Ace Emperor

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    I don't know about Classic, but Elephant U is correct about MGE. It will time you out, especially during the opening phase of your turn when the game is cycling through your cities. If you leave a city screen open too long, it will time out ( it definately is too short a time to go to the kitchen and whip up a snack). That said, I have never tried it with a blocked freight build.
     
  15. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Well I tried out the rest of the trade menu, to see if the bug happens in other parts of the menu. Good news , no further bugs to report. :)
    In fact if you choose to reconsider the <nil> caravan you cant get the bug to reoccur.

    Also it works for caravans or frieght :crazyeye:
     
  16. Dong2Long

    Dong2Long Chieftain

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    A thread about cheating. What brass balls. It is good to put this where all can see it, brilliant idea, most wuold wnat to keep it a secret. Good that some like to share, not all gaming communes belive the same. Good work and thank you, I did not aware of all the items. :goodjob: :goodjob:
     
  17. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    :mischief:

    not sure if this has been brought up before, if so please excuse.

    I got a size 3 city with a specialist yesterday this is how.

    Easier to explain for a size 4 city
    , by starting with a size 5 city with preexisting specialists(at least 2). Then build a settler/engineer. Population decreases by 1 you will lose one specialist but if you had 2 or more specialists then you will still have a specialists

    If you start with 5 specialists, you can go down to size 1 and still have a specialist

    You cant change the specialist from taxman to scientist or vice versa as the restriction of not having a specialist below size 5 kicks in.

    Not sure of the utility of this trick, only think I thought of would be if your disbanding a city and want to max you tax or science

    This probably works if a city shrinks due to famine
     
  18. Dong2Long

    Dong2Long Chieftain

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    You are absolutely right, Valuna. This is not unrealistic, particularly when one has a food reserve in that city and is trying to kill off the city (like for being in the wrong place) or produce settlers (which can then be rehomed or used as founders), for example. The gold can be more valuble than the food, and its a way to shift resources.

    But it does look shocking when you just see the graphic, nice work and thank you for showing and explaining it! :goodjob:
     
  19. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

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    In almost every game, I remove several cities... in GOTM 68, I choked 4 off, but had engineers eat their food reserve first, and usually kept one shield surplus (except decrease turns). That food in the bank (box) is a resource, and good to use.
     
  20. SlowThinker

    SlowThinker Prince

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    I ran a couple of tests with MGE: it looks the bug appears with first city that builds a van in given turn (it happens within one minute). All next vans are bug free (tens of minutes passed and nothing happened).
    Therefore you can exploit it only once per turn.

    Do your observations match mine?
     

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