Gotm19-Ottomans Pre-Game Discussion

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Ambiorix
Also, pop-rushing a settler may not be a good idea if no bonus food is available in the first city's radius. Anybody has any thoughts on that ?

True. Definitely not a good idea.

Here's another simple question, although I could just test it : if cutting a forest is done in 5 turns, and you're building something that's also going to be finished in 5 turns, do the bonus shields get wasted ? Should I finish my build in 4 turns ? That would mean the new build gets production from the first turn and 10 bonus shields in that same turn. Right ?

Right again. The production eta is not taking into account the forest that is being cut, so you should do one of three things:

(1) speed up the production so the 10 shields are used for the next product;
(2) slow down the production (grow faster or increase your income instead) so the 10 shields actually help;
(3) wait one turn with cutting down the forest (or maybe build a road first).

Take care if your citizens are working the forest tile: on the turn the forest is cut, you get the bonus 10 shields, but not the normal 2 shields! Instead, you get the 0 or 1 shield(s) of the terrain it was covering.

 

[cracker]

Hellfire,

Visit the MAC forum to get the link to the most current version of Civ3v1.29 for the Mac Computers. The version is in a semi-public beta version but because of the internal save and crash bugs in the MACv1.21 version we will have to take the plunge.

What is not readily apparent in the v1.21 for MAC issue is that it effectively denied you the ability to open and view any of the PCv1.29 games which effectively stuffed you guys into a box in the back of the closet. In some ways, the features testing that we were able to implement in the GOTM version for MACs has help to highlight the need for the v1.29 patch for your benefit and may have helped to solve problems that had previously been unaddressed for over 10 months.

Not to mention that upgrading you guys to v1.29 will personally save me about 20 hours a month (minimum).

 

[Moonsinger]

Ambiorix,

Chopping down the forest is a very good idea. I will see if I can time it right so that at least 8 shield will go toward rushing a warrior. Now, we have the ability to produce a warrior or a worker in just 1 turn. This is one of many reasons why I have always like the industrial civ.

 

[MadScot]

Idiot question time:

I've played the last two GOTMs as V1.29f. Now I have (untried) PTW. The PTW page explicitly states that having played GOTM 16 as vanilla or PTW is good enough for the squid, but does not say so explicitly for 17 or 18. If I take the plunge to PTW for this GOTM, does anyone know (or care ) if I have to load all the GOTM17 and 18 stuff from the PTW versions?

Cracker's dire warnings about a first PTW game as a GOTM are duly noted. But as I'm currently averaging one game per month, if I ever want to try PTW it'd better be a GOTM!

regarding the start position. I guess warrior N first, then worker S. Settle in location unless something fun appears. Try to survive!

 

[Singularity]

Originally posted by runifoc


If this is the case, do you avoid signing RoP? If yes, are you active about ordering units out of your territory? I'm asking because this is my first game at this level.

runifoc

This was my thought as well. If the map is set up to allow us to split and divide the 6 competitors it means we must also be willing to go to war to protect our territory from trespassers. The positive thing about this is that it will possibly give you two benefits from this: 1. Posistive war weariness as the people support you against the intruders. 2. Possible Great Leaders from early battles in your own backyard. You can not go down this path without backing it up with a mix of defencive and offencive units, that's why I will try to get warrior code early and split my production between spears and archers.

The trick here will be to keep as many of the other Civs of your back while you defend your territory. A gangbang on a small map on emperor could possibly be a nasty sight...

All this is of course again based on the premises that the map will allow us to seperate the world and act as a hub in trading.

 

[Shillen]

Originally posted by Moonsinger


With zero reseach, I could easily keep up with the AIs on tech. I usually could buy the same tech for at least 30% cheaper than the research cost. However, I do try to reserach Scientific Theory so that I could sling shot pass them. Since I rarely shoot for the fastest SS victory, the slower the tech pace, the more enjoyable game for me (because I really hate to deal with poluttion caused by the AIs).

I didn't do any research in that game I spoke of. Even at zero research you can buy your way to the middle ages, then get the free tech and have tremendous trading opportunities.

 

[zagnut]

Originally posted by MadScot
I've played the last two GOTMs as V1.29f. Now I have (untried) PTW. The PTW page explicitly states that having played GOTM 16 as vanilla or PTW is good enough for the squid, but does not say so explicitly for 17 or 18. If I take the plunge to PTW for this GOTM, does anyone know (or care ) if I have to load all the GOTM17 and 18 stuff from the PTW versions?

If you do the standard install for PTW it does not install over the vanilla Civ. It installs next to it (in its own subdirectory). Therefore, if you have already installed the squid, etc. for the last 3 games you do not have to install them again. You just have to install the new graphics for GOTM 19.

Note that when you install those new graphics for GOTM 19 that they install in the ART\units directory of vanilla Civ.

I also just broke down and got PTW and will be playing it on this GOTM for the first time. If we have trouble, we will have trouble together!

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Drink more milk! Milk would help you grow much stronger and bigger too.

Lol. Moonsinger promoting milk as always

I'm learning a lot from playing gotm. This will be my first try at emperor and I'm kinda daunted by it
I hope I'll live to SEE the sipahi, let alone using them to any effect.

Thinking of doing a gamble this gotm and getting warrior code first, scout with two warriors and start an early war on our nearest neighbour, as soon as I get there with 2-3 archers...

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by Singularity

The trick here will be to keep as many of the other Civs of your back while you defend your territory. A gangbang on a small map on emperor could possibly be a nasty sight...

Now that is a tempting thought (probably won't try it, but you never know ).

an ALWAYS WAR game!! You declare war on every civ you meet for the first time..... and NEVER sign peace.

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by alamo


Earlier discussion mentions that research will go quicker, and that has been my experience in playing on a small map.

I would wager that iron or horses are not nearby but within reach.

Actually I only need Iron Working in 40 turns and lots of cash to upgrade the troops so I would not change that strategy.
I'll take that bet. I do not expect cracker to purposely place the iron or horses at a certain distance.
I bet I will get them within reach with my 3 towns or they will be too far to get anyway. I'll post pictures at the relevant time

By the way did anyone play the sample game? I managed to build 2 towns and attack the Egyptians that settled near the ivory. My four archers died after they redlined 3 spears and killed a fourth. Then I quit.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Is anyhing known about the European PTW 1.21 patch? Will it become available sometime in May? If so, I will wait until it does.

(Hmm, quoting myself now .... )

Some posters at a certain other fansite claim that the US 1.21 patch works on the European PTW version. Is that true or would I run into trouble halfway through the game?

Couldn't care less about any language inconsistencies.

 

[Karasu]

Always at war... Sipahi... Hhhmmm...

Isn't it tempting... But maybe too much for me


Yndy,
I used that approach many times.
In the Tournament, however, it looked like using Horsemen would be more efficient.

In my experience, going for an all-out Swordsmen aggression is a gambit: you bet that the game is practically over before Feudalism. That depends quite heavily on the map, with the Great Lighthouse likely to be a key factor.
I am of course thinking of a fast conquest/domination victory -indeed, if the gambit fails the game may still be won, but at a much later date.
However, I doubt that an earlier victory could be achieved with the other approach.

The reasoning for Horsemen is similar, but probably the extra movement (and the retreat chance) become more important in an early ancient-era war than the extra attack of Swordsmen.

I really don't know, as my use of Swordsmen may still have been too conservative to guarantee a really fast victory. And, on the other hand, I never made massive use of Horsemen -preferring to slowly build them for a later upgrade.

I would like to know your opinion on this, as you are obviously more experienced.

 

[jack merchant]

No-one has won an Always War game on Emperor that I know of - not even Sirian. On a small map it's likely worse because the free units will reach you sooner.
However, I called Zwingli a Don Quixote for the 2CC in GOTM18, and the windmills didn't do all that well against him either

 

[Renata]

Upgrades are on this month, so swordsmen will have utility all the way up until gunpowder via medieval infantry. Granted, 4 vs. 3 is not quite as good odds as 3 vs. 2, but it'll still suffice in sufficient numbers.

Renata

 

[r0ck]

hi

I was thinkin about the start location. As beeing a industrious civ, we get the extra shield in the city square, it might be better to settle in the grassland to the south then in the plains. It would save some worker turns in the long run. Also, the plains, when the wonderfull railroads came, get more flexible.

I´d certaily go for wheel-horseback path, in hope to have a nice pack of horsies by the time i get chivalry .

Historically, i do hope that we have close access to horses, but iron and mainly later saltpeter are to be hardly found.


I do think that we are going to be around incense... If i recall well, incense was pretty comon during ottoman´s times

 

[King Of America]

Nearby slave opportunities?

Cracker's history of the Ottomans stresses their reliance on slaves. I'm no historian (my Ph.D. is Religious Studies) but when Cracker says slaves, I think we ought to listen.

 

[Karasu]

King,
If you mean to hunt down every single AI worker within reach of your first exploring warriors, hmm... that's also very tempting -the risk of course being to get oneself involved into too early a war.

But then, if war is our path, then let war be! (you can tell I'm startin to like this smiley!).

On the other hand, bonus volcano-workers might be highly beneficial in building roads towards enemy territory.

 

[King Of America]

Looking for volcano/slaves or barbarian camps is what I had in mind.

I have this nagging thought, by the way, that a scout will cross our path right away and I'm not if I'd want to kill it immediately (scarce goody huts and all) or not

 

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick

Thinking of doing a gamble this gotm and getting warrior code first, scout with two warriors and start an early war on our nearest neighbour, as soon as I get there with 2-3 archers...

Capt, attacking with 2-3 archers is rolling the dice big time. On Emperor the AI gets five free units, and you will almost certainly face spearmen. If early war is your pleasure, I suggest waiting for five archers plus a spearman, or doing a warrior-swordsmen upgrade and waiting for ten swordsmen. For the latter, research Iron Working straight off and build 3 or 4 cities before attacking. For archers, two cities (capital plus one) is often preferred but on Emperor there may not be time for the second city. Swordsmen have much better odds.

On Emperor, 1000 B.C. is about when you need to have the Swordsmen ready. If this timetable seems daunting a few practice starts on the sample game (earlier in the thread) will help a great deal. Again, research iron, build 3-4 cities, save gold, then upgrade 10+ warriors to swordsmen and attack in force, by 1000 B. C. If no iron, archers will have to do.

My plan (if there is no food bonus) is to build a granary before pop three, then 4-5 cities, then save gold to upgrade warriors to swordsmen. If there is no iron, I may try chariots to horsemen and try to build a few more cities. If no horses, well, it is going to be a tough game, and archers (10+) will have to do. There is almost always room for a several cities if I pack them in real close. Cracker has yet to give a map where there is an enemy in our faces, but this may be the first month with that situation.

Here is Yndy's experience with an early archer rush on the practice game setup, it is not a promising report:

>>>>
By the way did anyone play the sample game? I managed to build 2 towns and attack the Egyptians that settled near the ivory. My four archers died after they redlined 3 spears and killed a fourth. Then I quit.

 

[CruddyLeper]

Having had a muse over the starting position, I think I'll move the settler west, and irrigate the start position. That should give me more river tiles, and maybe give Istanbul Harbour potential - the coast should be somewhere to the west or north. If not, I'll get a lot more river tiles to work.

I know it's a risky strategy on a small map at Emperor, but what the heck - it's only a game. I only squeaked a victory at my first GOTM last month.

The warrrior goes east - maybe north after that. I reckon there's desert out that ways, probably with an incense luxury close by.

Here's my predictions for rival civs, given that Keltoi and Carthage are 2 out of the 7.

1) Greece

2) India

3) Egypt

4) Germans

5) Russia

Probably completely wrong on at least half of these - but I suppose I'd better get on and install the setup before waffling on.