Gotm20-Spain CONQUEST Bonus Pregame

I've played GOTM since #14 but never submitted any scores...not until now. A win on emperor but a fairly low score tho. Hours of couselling at AR (Anonymous Reloaders) helped me to see the light.:)

I won't even think of the Predator class, but then I don't like too many "extras" either. I have played well on a few emperor games by myself, but usually get beaten badly on deity. I have to learn not to be too humble in the beginning of games as I see quite a few players win on aggressive tactics.

I will play the open class and see where I stand.

Now give us the starting position cracker! I can't wait much longer :)
 
Originally posted by cracker
Feelgood,

I think you are not the player that the Conquest class game is targeted for. You have the skills to play well and be "in-the-game" on any difficulty level that you have tried so far and for you the real challenge is to extract those thingst hat you have been doing well and then focus on the key things that will let you play well in a game at deity level.

Look at this game as the opportunity that it really is and that is to measure where you are against the skill levels that will let you survive and/or have fun when the game is really dialed up to one of its most challenging settings.

Good luck in your Open or Predator Class game for Gotm20-Spain.

Oh my god, this means I have to play the open or Predator class... ahhh :eek: :( :cry:

I really have never tried deity for a long time since Babylon GOTM... I lost the game easily.

BTW, thanks for your commendation :love: *grin*. I`ll use this as an encouragement to go through another bloodlust this GOTM :die: . Also, I really have won sometimes in deity. Mostly as Egypt, Aztec or Japan. I`ll play a training game Spain later.

Must win! must win!.... :thumbsup:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but these defenders will be able to load onto ships? so they are not entiraly unmobile.
Meisier, No, the immobile defenders cannot load onto ships. They are IMMOBILE except under one extremely rare condition that most players will have no great value in knowing. Let's move on from this subject of trying to think of the most dysfunctional and exploitive uses for the bonuses in the game and do our best to find ways to try and keep you alive into the middle ages. ;)
 
This is for players like me

Players who are really strugggling at Monarch level and who are trying and learning alot from these posts. Players like me who REALLY have to THINK what these bonuses could be used for to give us a leg up on a level which (well I anyway) would be beaten out of the game by about 500BC!

Thanks Cracker and all the GOTM staff, Im really looking forward to it, will probably not start till the results of GOTM 19 are out , so I can see where I am this month

Phaedria
 
This sounds great for a player like me. Deity is way beyond me I normally play at Monarch level. I think I would play in the open class at anything lower than Deity though.I've just submitted my GOTM19 ( my first submission for 3 or 4 months) and I was stunned to get a win - not such a good score but a win at Emperor level is good for me. I've picked up quite a few good tips from reading these forums.
 
Spain-related thoughts:

We are religious and commercial, meaning we already have access to a territory-building improvement that will also help keep citizens content. It also means cheaper marletplaces, which don't require bromze working.

A few thoughts on the specific bonuses:

1. Even so, we still have less units than the AIs. Oh well.

2. Extra settler/worker. I think developing a 2nd city is better than increasing the size of the first city. My only fear is barbs attacking a moving 2nd settler (shades of GOTM 19). If the barb level is stationary, no problem, otherwise I'll probably want an escort, meaning building a warrior from Madrid before moving out. In this case, I'll work on two tiles while I wait.

3. Fortress unit. The good news is that is should stop anything except an Immortal and we aren't likely to see them before 2000 BC. I think I'll be using fortress units to keep safe while I develop Mysticism, Writing and/or Map making and Lit.

I think culture or diplomacy is our best shot, so using the Fortress until we get to Lit., or maybe even Currency, is a good idea.

4. Treasure chests: SirPleb's idea of using them as scouts is great (unless of course we start in the Pyrannes mountains), I plan to use them fairly early. One scenario might be: build madrid, build warrior; use chest 1 for Fortress while having the warrior escort the gang to city site 2. On the other hand, 3 treasure chests do equal one Temple.

5. Money...changes eveything. This should give us some flexibility in buying tech. Would't hurt if we had some left over when we reach Monarchy or Republic.

6. Galeass...let me get Gunpowder first :)
 
Originally posted by King Of America It also means cheaper marletplaces, which don't require bromze working.
Markets are not cheaper for commercial civs. Markets require currency, not bronze working.
 
Originally posted by King Of America
3. Fortress unit. The good news is that is should stop anything except an Immortal
Actually, I think they'll give immortals a hard time.

If there's a couple of fortified fortresses (no pun intended) in a city their defence rating would be over 4 even on plains/grassland.


regards

Ted
 
Tao,

Of course you're right that marketplaces are not cheaper for commercial civs--but, as I said, currency doesn't require bronze (or maybe you were just agreeing with me vigorously :) )
 
GOTM 19 was my first GOTM and first Emperor level game. I won with a space race victory with about 3300 points. I've never played a Diety level game before. How will I know whether I can play conquest or have to play open?
 
You may play the Conquest class game this month if that game is where you feel comfortable.

Remember that the Conquest class game will have a scoring adjustment to make sure that players in tha class are fairly represented when compared to players of similar skill and experience who play in the open class.

We want you to choose and play the game that will let you get the most out of the process in terms of thrill and enjoyment as well as fun learning opportunities. Some of these opportunities my be "shock and awe" related but hopefully in the balance of game play life you will consider that you have come out ahead overall.
 
Originally posted by cracker
You may play the Conquest class game this month if that game is where you feel comfortable.

Thanks. I will play conquest for GOTM 20. I will probably play open for games less than diety.
 
TreasureLarge.gif


mac.jpg
Sooo. The start position is defined here, and we lucky Conquest class players will have seven units on a tile in the middle of a floodplain, including two settlers, two workers and three treasure chests with wobbly wheels.

I haven't seen any new thoughts on the effect on our start, so here's my 2 Euro cents worth on how the Conquest class extras might come into play at the start:

We need some shield-producing tiles to complement all that food production, so a bit of exploration wiil be needed before settling down. Based on the information we have, population growth is going to be easier than shield production, though there are likely to be some bonus tiles about. I've tried a couple of Deity practice starts, and one of them was in a flood plain. I lost two pop points to disease before the capital reached size 4. That was forty food and twenty shields written off, so that extra food also comes at a price.

I think I'll found two cities as soon as possible, rather than join both settlers to one city. It will give us two chances to find a decent settler farm location, and provide some backup against getting hit by disease. If the positions are good then they'll get us off to a good population start.

The treasure chests will help to offset possible low early shield production - they'll provide welcome shields for a cheap but powerful fortress in each town, and maybe a head start on a temple in the second city to grab territory. In my practices the AI expanded terrifyingly fast. I'm also guessing the Romans might not be far away given RL Spanish history, so good defences could be needed against Legions as well as barbs.

A Treasure chest moving along with a settler to scout just ahead in the current turn looks like a great idea. Thanks SirPleb. By keeping close to the settler they can quickly disband in the city once it's founded, and you are less likely to waste valuable worker turns on scouting trips up hills.

The hill to the north east looks like one possible city site. Maybe I'll send a treasure chest up the hill on the first turn to take a look.

The western hill looks like it has coast on two sides, although that could be fresh water, of course. Depending on what the first scouting chest finds I would be tempted to send a second treasure chest south to see what happens to the flood plains in that direction. There look to be a couple more flood plain tiles, and one with a wheat bonus would give a great boost to a settler farm, freeing up a citizen to work any shield tile we can find.

On the assumption that we'll have to create one or both cities close to the start, we could get the two workers pulling together on irrigation right away on the start tile unless we see a better tile to work. Alternatively work two adjacent tiles to get the road network going between the twin cities.

Anyone else had any more thoughts since seeing the start position?
 
Given the start position I will repeat my suggestion about the use of treasury chests. 30 shields are half a granary. With the river banks everywhere you can research pottery in about 15 to 20 turns and you can then build a granary in one of the cities relatively easy.
With some many the floodplains you should be able to grow every three turns and due to the low production the city will become huge as the shields to build those settlers will rack up slowly. Huge cities mean more commerce (and playing with the luxury tax).
You can always use the other town to build units.
 
Originally posted by Yndy
You can always use the other town to build units.
I take your point, but I've been raided by barbs in an undefended capital during practice games. Even a single fortified warrior is no guarantee against losing that extra gold we get at the start of Conquest class. So I really would like a cheap defender in each city. As they are immobile you have to build them where you want them.

Huge cities mean more commerce (and playing with the luxury tax)
You're right. Each new pop point working a river tile will generate at least two gpt once we've built roads, and we can already see 15 river tiles. Once we get to a population of 12 in a single city at the start location we should be generating at least 22 gpt before taxes and corruption, even keeping one specialist for minimum science. The entertainment and corruption bills will halve that, but it's still a great start for the piggy bank. The second city could work the three other river tiles we can see already, and there are sure to be a couple more at least, so we are looking at a gold-rich core with lots of tech bargaining power.

So OK, I'll pour some shields into a granary rather than a temple, but I'm still in favour of prioritising defence first, population second for the initial stash of shields. That treasury will need defending.

[edited to correct slightly optimistic estimate of gold production]
 
GM20_CONQtact.jpg

For those of you playing Conquest class, I would suggest moving the 3 starting treasure chests Northeast to the hill, South, and West which will reveal just about the entire surrounding area. This should give you the information necessary to send off the second settler to a decent location. From the image it looks like fertile lands lie to the East, but moving the chests should allow you to determine with certainty where a good city site (ie food bonuses in the city radius + river) would be.

As for what to spend the treasure on, it would be interesting to see what would happen if you founded a city on the start position and spent all 3 to rush a temple on turn 0. You would immediately have 4x the culture of all other civs, and would probably maintain that lead until around 2000 BC when the first AI culture builds would come up (edit: also the capital borders would expand in 3 turns rather than 10 which would get any bonus resources worked that much earlier). What effect would a 4x culture lead have on tech trading? :)

Probably a better idea if you are considering the culture rout is to explore with the treasure chests (see above), then use 2 of the 3 to hurry a temple in your second city to give both of your starting cities expanded borders early on with the benifit of extended access to all bonus tiles in the full city radii of both cities. The extra territory from a border expansion will increase your power rating and reduce the likelyhood of an AI sneak attack. (That being said, I would probably use all 3 to jump start a granery ;) )
 
I agree with Zwingli about using the treasure chests for early exploration. Before knowing what lies under the fog, I've written some plans in the sand.

Move settler1 NE,NE and settle the capital (settler factory?) on the grassland
Move settler2 SW,SW and settle 2nd city (production city)

science for pottery (aim for about 15 turns)

set both cities to build ID use workers to connect both cities with a road. Irrigate land city1 & mine for city2. When ID done in each city, set city1 to barracks (granary prebuild), set city2 to temple

After chests complete local scouting, 2 goes to city1, 1 goes to city2. After pottery, switch barracks to granary and use chests 1&2 as boost. Use chest 3 to help temple build. If horses nearby, connect and build chariot for scouting else build warrior(s). Switch science to max for writing. After 2-3 warriors built, start palace (Great Library pre-build). Writing done start Literature.

If incense (or other lux) nearby, workers will connect asap.

Each new city will build ID first and workers will connect via roads.
After ID built, build temple.

Try to get 8-10 cities built in during QSC.

If there is a wheat to the south, cities will switch roles.

For those of you who haven't read it yet, there is a very educational post by SirPleb on page 2 of the GOTM 20 pregame dicsussion. A must read for all conquest players IMHO.

Here is a courtesy link directly to that SirPleb post
 
Denyd --

It sounds like your first two cities will be too far apart. After reading cracker's GOTM8 breakdown, I will probably put one settler on the hill and send the other SW 2 spaces to grab the incense. Two treasure chests for defenders, the third to speed a temple in city #2.

Ideally, one would like the cities to be on the same side of the river, but with immobile defenders, that is less important.
 
I'm trying to grab as much land as possible. After, I've established my borders. I'll be filling in the gaps with new cities. I had thought about sending setler2 a little farther, but I'm expecting to find a coastline over there. Also, if I spot lots of water to the west, I might send both settlers east (1 NE & 1 SE), to give myself some room for western expansion later.

I will also check the mini-map to see if we are far north/south. If so, I want to build my cities on the pole side of the river for the additional defensive bonus incase of war/barbs.

I'll probably end up changing all of the plans after the 3 chests spot AI borders in all directions anyway!!!

:wallbash:
 
After reading the other pre-game posts and a couple of War College articles, Plan B has been formulated:

Out - don't try for Great Lib, forget any type of culture victory, also count out space race.

In - Build both cities to become settler factories. Keep cities close and get as many as possible, probably will use chests (after scout duty complete) for settler completion. First build in all new cities will be 2 ID followed by a worker then a temple. If I can get 2 lux hooked up, that will allow a size 6 city without need for entertainers or slider adjustments. Science to max for pottery, then to min for mysticism / polytheism. Try to trade for horseback riding and be the first to monarchy. Trade poly for as many first/second level techs as possible, saving bronze working for last. If horses nearby, build barracks/horseman army. In early Middle Ages aim for Chvalry, upgrade horses to knights, deny iron to neighbor and take out neighbor before they get muskets. Hopefully, that will allow enough space for us to become a good sized civ. Then fill in any gaps in new territory.

After that, try to be the first to make new world contact to see what's over there. Switch to Republic and get some cash in the bank.

Of course having aggressive neighbors (or none at all), will require new thinking, but that's a future story.

Comments / suggestions please!!
 
Back
Top Bottom