Gotm24-Korea Pre-game Discussion

[bluebox]

hello to all gotm-players out there!

the last two weeks i was ill and spent my time at home. i had enough time to read a lot of stuff here on cfc, things i already knew or that i had found out before, and quite amazing things i've hadn't heard of yet.

after setting up my copy of civ3 for gotm (which was not too easy due to some langage specific file names i had to edit manually uff) it was too late to finish gotm23, but i will try the koreans.

i think i will settle on the starting loc. haven't counted the expected f/s/c for possible settler factory, but other players here mentioned it would work.

i had a look at what files the setups deliver, and that was very ... aahm .... interesting but i won't say anything more, i don't want to spoil the discussion.

 

[Naboo]

Originally posted by ControlFreak

Actually, depending on your relative positions, an MPP may be cheaper in terms of gold but is always more dangerous than the MA. MPP have a nasty habit of forcing you to declare war against one of your friends, thus loosing their vote.

Yep this seems to be one of the AI behaviors that most closely approximates human intelligence. They really know how to get you bolluxed up with "foreign entanglements"

 

[MadScot]

If I get to that position it will be an MA. Too much risk with an MPP - you still need to make the Ai attack you in that case.

We're talking of being dominant at this point; it could cost me two techs and 50gpt and I wouldn't care less, because once we tie our ally to us they have almost no choice but to vote for us when the vote comes up. The important thing will be to ensure the enemy AI doesn't get beaten down too far and our 'ally' becomes our 'UN rival' at which point anything could happen - likely a tie since the warring Ai will abstain I suspect.

But I have to get to that point first, of course.

 

[ainwood]

@ MadScot - Where's Brandy?

I firmly believe that people are focussing too much on the obvious, being the sheep and wheat. No-one has yet mentioned anything about the grasslands towards the south. Unless I see a compelling reason not to, I will seriously consider moving the worker south to the mountain before I settle. Why? Because I think on raging barbs that a settler factory is less effective unless you have a warrior (read escort) factory nearby. I want to know where the second city is to be located. Until I see a few more tiles, I won't rule anything out - perhaps moving the settler south or south-east.

Why did cracker crop the starting pic to not show the very RHS of the map - the edges of the last tile (although that's probably in consipracy fantasy land).

Overall, if this is island-ish, then that in itself will slow the tech-rate down. Hopefully this will mean that the (hypothetical) home island can be settled before the massive barb uprisings. I'd like a contact or two early-on to do the world-map exchanges to allow the barb villages to be identified for quick killing. If we truly are isolated, I will risk a barb farm or two for extra cash to help the tech rate along.

 

[Qitai]

According to my paper calculation, it looks like it is possible to set up a 4 turn warrior/settler combo factory on this start. I think I can set it up by 2900BC if my excel projection is right. And no! I am not going to tell you how. Figure it out yourself

If it works, it will be in my QSC.

I will most likely move NW for the capital both to get the irrigation link (Vanilla Civ1.29) as well as getting the wheat in the radius.

 

[von Riesling]

Well, here goes nothing. Good luck to all, and may I live long enough to see you in the spoilers!

I'll found to the NW.

Salut!

 

[Greebley]

I think I may try predator, though it sounds like it will be tough. I am guessing some of the farther civs might be truely scary at this difficulty. It will be great if I can win though.

I think I am going to test the "water through hills" in my version of PTW in a test game before I try the real game. Settling on the hill might be marginally better if I do get water already. I will have to see if the wheat is useful as well. If having a 2/2 food shield square makes a "cutoff", then I will move NW anyway. I will definitely take this game slower than normal.

 

[Txurce]

Predator will be a definite advantage if going for a diplomatic win, as there'll be no reason not to accelerate the tech pace. If we are on an island, catching up in tech will be tougher - but easily solved by securing a couple of first contacts. And that hypothetical island will completely negate the biggest AI Predator advantage - fast encroaching units and settlers.

As long as you know how to catch up in tech late in the Ancient Age, I think this game is made to try predator.

 

[hotrod0823]

FWIW: I think the move to the NW is the best choice. Early research on Pottery and a forestry aided Granary will get settler pumping. By moving NW you get all 4 bonuses in the city radius and with proper irrigation a 4 turn settler shouldn't be a problem.

A quick question: Has the Hwach'a been modded to trigger a golden age and have leathal bombardment.

 

[LouLong]

I will try to go for my first GOTM !!!

Now I downloaded the PTW add-on set up. Is that all I need befoer the actual SAV is released ?

 

[kryszcztov]

Originally posted by Qitai
According to my paper calculation, it looks like it is possible to set up a 4 turn warrior/settler combo factory on this start. I think I can set it up by 2900BC if my excel projection is right. And no! I am not going to tell you how. Figure it out yourself

That's what I was thinking of just before reading your post. This position is damn so good that I think there is a way to get to this excellent tactic ! I'll do some little math to see if it's really possible though. If so, then beware my QSC !

I will most likely move NW for the capital both to get the irrigation link (Vanilla Civ1.29) as well as getting the wheat in the radius.

Well, I own PTW, so I won't do that. At last I can beat Qitai ! Err, that is, if you don't catch me up by 3000BC.
Unless there is another food bonus under the fog that could be used for the capital if founded NW, I don't see any point in moving NW with PTW 1.27f. See one of my previous post. Only bad things about this move.

I also think predator is tempting now. I'll wait to see what cracker has prepared for predator. But I definitely want my AIs to do some fast research, on Emperor it's gonna be alright !

@ LouLong : Welcome aboard ! Nice to see more French guys here. It also appears von Riesling is a French guy too, so welcome !
LouLong, yes I think it's all you need. Wait 24 more hours, and type the URL you'll have for the game you want to play (conquest, open or predator).

 

[Email10]

I'm using all my math skills and civ skills and I still can't think of a way producing 40 shields in 4 turns (and at the same time 20 extra food for 2 growths)) to produce warrior and a settler. It will be very interesting to read the timeline from you this game Qitai

I feel I'm missing something here

 

[mad-bax]

Originally posted by Qitai
According to my paper calculation, it looks like it is possible to set up a 4 turn warrior/settler combo factory on this start.

The only way I can see of doing this (calculated in my head) is to move the settler NW, irrigate all the wool, mine the wheat and irrigate 3 plains tiles. You would then have to oscillate between 5 and 7 and play VERY carefully. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether or not you get a corrupted shield at any point. I'm assuming you do. If you don't it might be easier and allow you to bounce between 4 and 6.

This is probably wrong but at size 4 you would get 2 shields from each wool, 2 from the mined wheat and 1 from the city tile, so 9 shields. For each additional pop point you make 1 extra shield from the plains. So if all the shields are uncorrupted you have 1 turn at size 4, 2 at size 5 and 1 at size 6. Giving 9+10+10+11 =40. If the 11th shield is corrupted, which in my hazy memory I think it might possible be, then you have to do it from size 5.

Don't take my word for it though. This post is just my 2 cents and comes with a big public health warning.

 

[Qitai]

Nope, I don't need to use the wheat to get the combo, although that works too, but it will waste the food potential. The corruption starts at 14 for the capital.

 

[Ankka]

Four turn settler/warrior combo factory? Thats amazing! I'll try to play as good as I can, I'll propably also research pottery at max science...

 

[mad-bax]

Well, without using the wheat you would have to spend 1 turn at size 5 for 9 shields, 2 at size 6 and the interturn to size 7 for the 11th shield. 1 cock up and you spend a whole turn at size 7 and your day is ruined. Also it costs an additional 8 worker turns to set up, but some of us can settle on the spot to do it. As you say you also get the opportunity to irrigate the wheat for another town.

The way I play, too risky methinks.

 

[King Of America]

My apologies in advance if this is just a screen capture problem, but doesn't the wool tile to the north of the opening position look like a river runs through it, rather than just between it and the other tile? If so, does this mean anything?

 

[Email10]

I guess what I was missing was that wool is 2 shields, now I also can see the possibilities. With wheat, not without. Either with mined wheat plus plains or with irrigated wheat plus forest.

 

[The Moose]

Originally posted by King Of America
My apologies in advance if this is just a screen capture problem, but doesn't the wool tile to the north of the opening position look like a river runs through it, rather than just between it and the other tile? If so, does this mean anything?

It probably means that the wool will be shrinking a tad every turn until it's gone after 20 (unless you use cracker detergent..... )

 

[Greebley]

I would need either the wheat or a bonus grassland (or wine, furs, cow, deer, etc on a fogged square) to go for warrior + settler. The only way I know to do this is to go warrior at size 5, and then settler at size 5, 6, 6. For a warrior in a single turn, I would need 10 shields at size 5 which would mean a 4th square with 2 food and 2 shields (or 3 food and 1 shield). There are 3 +2 shields (the wool). I can't work the forest or hills as I would only get 4 food. Since I don't see a guaranteed bonus grassland within the radius, I think I will be moving NW. If cutting a forest led to a BG, I can always use the wheat for another town. I will also look closely at the edge squares to see if I see a bonus on the partially seen squares. I am not good at spotting these however.

Another advantage to the wheat is that if you screw up and only get 4 food because you work a forest rather than say an irrigated plains, then you can fix it by working the wheat to get +6 food (for that reason I would irrigate the wheat and not mine it).