Gotm24-Korea Pre-game Discussion

[RowAndLive]

Low, despite the raging barbs. It was more for positioning than anything else. I usually play with raging barbs, and don't find them to be a huge problem until the change to MA. Then the horsemen explosions are HUGE.

Something else to keep in mind with raging barbs is that it places more GHs. As such, tech movement should be faster. Also, it potentially sets us up for a major cultural opponent, as was seen with Atlantis in GOTM21 (Greeks). A few clustered GHs created the proverbial pre-eminent civilization of Atlantis. I liked this as a scenario feature, and it's easily done with the mechanics of GH! We could see it again here. Imagine Angkor Wat!

 

[Tone]

Originally posted by Megalou


Just remember that MPPs will be expensive to sign if you have broken MPPs in the past, even if your treaty violation has not affected the pet civ itself. (I'm sure you will remember, being a more successful GOTM-player than me so far. )

Isn't it cheaper to form an alliance with the 'pet civ' than use a MPP for this task? (from an even less successful GOTM player!! )

BTW the new graphics look great.

 

[King Of America]

what is a GH?

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by planetfall
I don't want to do downloads yet
because I still want to be able to read this thread.

Downloading the add-on packs doesn't disqualify you from this thread. That happens when you download the starting .sav file and open it. That won't happen until at least October 1st because the start files are not available until then.

 

[RowAndLive]

GH = Goody Hut

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by Tone
Isn't it cheaper to form an alliance with the 'pet civ' than use a MPP for this task?

Actually, depending on your relative positions, an MPP may be cheaper in terms of gold but is always more dangerous than the MA. MPP have a nasty habit of forcing you to declare war against one of your friends, thus loosing their vote.

 

[Tone]

Originally posted by ControlFreak

Actually, depending on your relative positions, an MPP may be cheaper in terms of gold but is always more dangerous than the MA. MPP have a nasty habit of forcing you to declare war against one of your friends, thus loosing their vote.

I guess that shows how infrequently I am in such a commanding position!

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by Tone
I guess that shows how infrequently I am in such a commanding position!

Heh, heh. If you're in a really commanding position, the other civs will pay you for an MPP. (But will never pay you for an MA unless they are already at war with the victim and you aren't.)

 

[kryszcztov]

@ ControlFreak & RowAndLive : I'd rather have 1 good than 2 medium settler factories. So that my other city can produce workers (see that wheat) or units. BTW, this map is large, so I guess there is some room to expand, 11 civs being not too much, unless we have a 90% water map. So I'd rather lose some coastal tiles and grab more land quicker... and still have no aqueduct to build (a 100-shield discount for free), and a hill for defense against early raging barbs. And my Seoul will have so much gold and production in the middle and the end of the game that I'll be quicker in the tech pace, will have better odds to grab some wonders like Copernicus and Newton (that will hopefully fuel my research in the 2nd part of the game ; the Colossus won't be of more help : you'd trigger a golden age more quickly, and in the late Ancient Era, I rather go for gambits or stop research (Great Library), so a Colossus for me would only give me some gold). The power of Com/Sci will feel greatly in the late game, and with good production, Seoul will definitely be a powerhouse. This site is a good example of very good food, shield and commerce, from the beginning to the end of the game (which isn't always the case).

EDIT : Did some quick math : with all tiles cleared from forest, plains irrigated, mountains, hills and grasslands mined, Seoul will produce 30-ish shields at size 20. So that's 60 shields with a factory and Hoover (oh, I'm on a river ! so easy). But who needs more citizens ? Unless I need more gold for research (I hope to be close to 4-turn research then), I will mine some of those plains to get more shields... And I haven't talked about railways so far.

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by kryszcztov
This site is a good example of very good food, shield and commerce, from the beginning to the end of the game (which isn't always the case).

I was shocked how clear and powerfull of a 4-turn settler source we got. It really makes me wonder what the nasty surprise of the game is.

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by LKendter
... makes me wonder what the nasty surprise of the game is.

surprise(s)!! Now what would lead you to think there are nasty surprises??

 

[RowAndLive]

Originally posted by kryszcztov
I'd rather have 1 good than 2 medium settler factories. So that my other city can produce workers (see that wheat) or units.... This site is a good example of very good food, shield and commerce, from the beginning to the end of the game (which isn't always the case).

I'm not well versed in knowing whether a city is a 4-, 5- or 6-turn settler factory, so perhaps I over-estimated the capabilities of the 2 sites. I thought that you only needed 2 bonus food sources (3F) and a granary. You certainly make a convincing arguement.

I stand a novice and partially instructed.

 

[ControlFreak]

I too stand a novice and partially instructed. But I'm hoping the QSC will be scored so we can compare. Hint hint...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If you look at past GOTMs, cracker likes to make RCP difficult (i.e. Vikings in August) I think one of our first surprises will be that while we have a great settler factory location for our capitol, we will have difficult strategic city placement choices.

Just because the geography is 4 billion years old, doesn't mean cracker can't make our immediate vicinity mountainous.

I expect some immediate (as in first 20 turns) surprises.

BTW, I'm settling in place and going for max science starting with pottery. I'm using Qitai's max science gambit and racing for Fission instead of Military Tradition.

 

[Greebley]

kryszcztov,
I think a better argument for the NW move is to allow irrigation to get to the wools that are not next to the river. It allows you to save 7-8 turns on irrigating and roading of the NW tile.

I am not sure what versions allow irrigation through hills but I do know it has not worked in the past for me. I wouldn't want to settle and then find I can't irrigate the near wool square.

 

[RowAndLive]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
If you look at past GOTMs, cracker likes to make RCP difficult (i.e. Vikings in August) I think one of our first surprises will be that while we have a great settler factory location for our capitol, we will have difficult strategic city placement choices.

Luke Skywalker - "I'm not scared!!!"
Yoda - "You WILL be..."

I am much more fearful that we will have not only a great starting location, but also perfect RCP sites, low aggressiveness neighbors to trade with and many nearby goody huts...
Then I would REALLY be scared!

All hail, the great moderator!!! We are not worthy!

 

[zamint3]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
I'm using Qitai's max science gambit .....

Is there a thread about this somewhere?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

zamint3,

If you look in this thread: Qitai's Science Gambit which is actually named Spoiler 2 of August's GOTM. Start on page 5 and Qitai discusses how he absolutely kicked butt researching science at max.

Best of luck in the GOTM.

 

[Txurce]

Originally posted by cracker

surprise(s)!! Now what would lead you to think there are nasty surprises??

One nasty surprise for a civ aka the "hermit kingdom" that starts on a settler factory would be to find itself alone on an island, while the other ten Emperor-level AI civs are buzz-sawing their way through the tech tree.

Pirate, RCP is a legal exploit in GOTM/Medal Play.

Planetfall, cracker has asked that questions like yours be asked via email or PM.

 

[kryszcztov]

Originally posted by ControlFreak
I too stand a novice and partially instructed. But I'm hoping the QSC will be scored so we can compare. Hint hint...

I'm not saying I'm an expert (a lot of people beats me in this game), but I want to use my brain as far as I can, so I'm making statements that I think are right, but that could be wrong or not entirely right. Two things can alter my vision of things (and I hope it can be altered) : debate (this thread) and experience (spoiler threads). I'd love to compare our 2 games, if you go the W route. Let's get contact in early november !

@ Greebley : I can't help Firaxis's mess. If it apears Vanilla don't allow irrigation through hilly cities, then my point of view has less value for you. Still, slightly, because in order to get my 4-turn settler factory running, I'll have to irrigate another plains tile after the 3 wool tiles (maybe a 2nd one). So you could do the job inbetween the wool improvement. Needless to add that I will improve ALL wool tiles first (better) and so games' comparisons will be altered.

OK, if I didn't convince many people to settle right in 4000BC, then I can't do more !! After all, the more differences, the better.